BitDNS and Generalizing Bitcoin

[marxcoin]

Person A: download list from an official site
Person A: asks his peers for the IP address
Malicious peer: cannot fake the list of the official site, or change local configuration without authorization.
Person A: cannot go to fake address, cannot donates his money to the Malcious Peer, and can go to see wikileaks

Who runs the official site? How do we go there? Does it have a normal ICANN DNS entry?

Why do we even have peers to ask for an IP address in this scenario? What data are we getting from the peers that we aren't getting from the list? In other words, for a peer to be unable to forge an IP address, we have to already know what the IP address is, so why are we asking them?

I hope to be clear, watch the sketch, give me your opinion.

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9048/bitdns.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[grue]

Person A: download list from an official site
Person A: asks his peers for the IP address
Malicious peer: cannot fake the list of the official site, or change local configuration without authorization.
Person A: cannot go to fake address, cannot donates his money to the Malcious Peer, and can go to see wikileaks

Who runs the official site? How do we go there? Does it have a normal ICANN DNS entry?

Why do we even have peers to ask for an IP address in this scenario? What data are we getting from the peers that we aren't getting from the list? In other words, for a peer to be unable to forge an IP address, we have to already know what the IP address is, so why are we asking them?

I hope to be clear, watch the sketch, give me your opinion.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

can't read handwriting.

[marxcoin]

Person A: download list from an official site
Person A: asks his peers for the IP address
Malicious peer: cannot fake the list of the official site, or change local configuration without authorization.
Person A: cannot go to fake address, cannot donates his money to the Malcious Peer, and can go to see wikileaks

Who runs the official site? How do we go there? Does it have a normal ICANN DNS entry?

Why do we even have peers to ask for an IP address in this scenario? What data are we getting from the peers that we aren't getting from the list? In other words, for a peer to be unable to forge an IP address, we have to already know what the IP address is, so why are we asking them?

I hope to be clear, watch the sketch, give me your opinion.

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9048/bitdns.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

can't read handwriting.

click on it

[dikidera]

Why would one want to generate DNSes? That also doesnt seem possible.

[bytemaster]

Sorry for jumping in here, but here is what I want to do with respect to BitDNS...

First lets establish some terminology for what I would like to see.

Assume bitcoins are just "shares" of a total 23M of some *named* stock.  Currently all values are named "bitcoin" which can be tracked back to multiple base shares issued 50 at a time.

Let users introduce a new "base coin" transferring 100% (23M or 2^64-1) of that base coin to an address.  Where as generation fees only transfer 50 "bitcoins" from nothing to a new address.
Imbed a unique "name" into the script for this transaction.  The private key for this initial address "owns the name".

An analogy to this "transaction" would be for a company, "Apple Computer", to issue a new coin type called AAPL and transfer 100% to and address owned by "Apple Computer".  Now shares of AAPL can be traded and change hands, but the "issuer" still owns the name AAPL and can "sign messages" and perform other actions using that "identity".

Now all we need to do to transfer ownership of the name is to issue a new transaction of 0 units for AAPL and no "previous output" and sign it with AAPL's private key.  This can change the private key used to "sign for" apple, but does not change ownership of AAPL shares. 

Now we have a way to create new identities, names, and allow them to issue shares which can be traded like any other bitcoin using a common block chain.

A DNS system can now be validated by having all records signed by the private key of the current holder of the name.  It can be implemented entirely outside the blockchain/bitcoin framework.

All transactions would be limited to dealing with only one type of coin at a time. 

The only fee for registering a name would be the normal bitcoin transaction fee.

This could be implemented without breaking the existing block chain, but it would break clients that did not upgrade.

Questions:
1) Will it always be possible to trace a coin back to its origin?  Or will this info be "discarded" after a while.
2) Can an arbitrary 'name' be entered into the origin script? 
3) Can this 'name' be queried as needed


Benefits:
1) No limit to the number of names that can be issued
2) Can leverage existing bitcoin block chain (without introducing domain specific concepts, just generalize the idea of trading shares of stocks)
3) All "name registration fees" are handled by current bit coin transaction fees
         - this would require 'grouping' two transactions BTC for the fee and AAPL for the shares... *or* it would require changing the CTxOut to specify the desired share type. 
               This would be a breaking change.

4) Names can optionally expire, but shares can never be "reissued". 
5) Your wallet would now contain a unique balance for each type of "coin" it holds.
6) When you "send coins" you would need to specify the type.
7) We just decentralized the stock exchange. 
Anyone can create a "bank" and issue "digital bank notes"

I suspect there are many more benefits... so the main questions are technical.  What would it take to make that happen?

[phelix]

necro...   can anybody point me to or send me the original irc discussion?

[coinrevo]

Have been looking for those logs as well. 11/14/2010 is missing from here http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2010/11

[ArticMine]

BitDNS became Namecoin http://namecoin.info/

[phelix]

Have been looking for those logs as well. 11/14/2010 is missing from here http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2010/11

Hmm i thought bitcoin-dev and bitcoin were two different channels

[kingcarsen]

I think it would be possible for BitDNS to be a completely separate network and separate block chain, yet share CPU power with Bitcoin.  The only overlap is to make it so miners can search for proof-of-work for both networks simultaneously.

The networks wouldn't need any coordination.  Miners would subscribe to both networks in parallel.  They would scan SHA such that if they get a hit, they potentially solve both at once.  A solution may be for just one of the networks if one network has a lower difficulty.

I think an external miner could call getwork on both programs and combine the work.  Maybe call Bitcoin, get work from it, hand it to BitDNS getwork to combine into a combined work.

Instead of fragmentation, networks share and augment each other's total CPU power.  This would solve the problem that if there are multiple networks, they are a danger to each other if the available CPU power gangs up on one.  Instead, all networks in the world would share combined CPU power, increasing the total strength.  It would make it easier for small networks to get started by tapping into a ready base of miners.

Namecoin (NMC) implemented your proposed BitDNS in a better method in 2011.  I am sure you are aware of this

I implemented "BitDNS" into Denarius (D) recently, I was able to complete full integration by hooking into the chain with a separated name database by utilizing the asm OP_DUP OP_2DROP etc.  I know you said 1 TLD .web was a good idea, this will be added in the future, it is trivial. Denarius currently supports .d, .dnr, .denarii, .ipfs, .king, .sys, .btc, and .bitcoin TLDs.  This "NVS" can be extended upon similar to Namecoin for things like text, magnet links, name aliases, and really data of any sort.  The value of the names can handle roughly a limit of 20kB.  Our name values can have dnslink IPFS records set for fully decentralized sites hosted on IPFS with DDNS.

If you want http://satoshi.btc/ or http://satoshi.bitcoin/ just let me know.  I thought .btc and .bitcoin were a bit more fitting for decentralized domains and a good option from the current .bit.

[Sathosi0]

Hola yo soy sathosi nakamoto nunca me meto y si pase a otras cosas que le vamos a hacer ahora mi correo es lacanoademariete@hotmail.com gracias necesito ayuda
BTC

[realdantreccia]

This is based on a discussion on 11/14/2010 on the IRC channel

As a last thought: BitX poses a significant threat to bitcoin, because money may not be the "killer app" for the block chain.  In other words, what happens when bitBeanieBabies becomes bigger than bitcoin?  Suddenly the bitcoin system doesn't seem as secure.  If both were running on top of BitX, they would enhance each other's security, and interfere with one another minimally.

Thanks for reading,
Appamatto

To quote the Angel McAffee (RIP soldier), I would "eat my own d.. (Italian sausage)"... those mfers are sitting around in mint condition because dumb 8 year old me collected things and believed pumped markets and media at my humble stupid youth.

But I was just reading your IRC logs... There actually begin day before - my analysis on my twitter - see thru my keybase in profile for safe connection. And logs are here:

Day 1 (11/14/10) -- happens in the latter hours: https://web.archive.org/web/20101118020511/http://veritas.maximilianeum.ch/bitcoin/irc/logs/2010/11/14

Day 2 (11/15/10) -- practically whole thread :https://web.archive.org/web/20101118033208/http://veritas.maximilianeum.ch/bitcoin/irc/logs/2010/11/15

- never realized how the Bitcoin Forum systems administrator theymos was so involved til now, but like I said, it helps to see outside in at a network.

Bumping this post is ok because like the email taking 20 years since the Internet had communties already using BBS, or people adopting streaming when I was using VLC to watch NFL on Reddit live for free every sunday in High School, society just takes forever to catch up. Eventually they become so used to the advanced stuff it becomes easier to use to them than the Blackberry Bold they used when this board launched on another domain back in 2009. I bet my father couldn't even figure out how to snap a picture on his 2009 Bold as he's been accustomed to his iPhone 5 (pfffft .. lol boomers and their disregard for support EOL)....

Money is the most misunderstood concept in the world. No one set definition, we didn't first use gold as money. We didn't know how to smelt it even for ages. We didn't print paper money until 300 years after Marco Polo traveled to Venice and became prisoner telling of a whole continent that used paper with elaborate counterfeit characters written on it by mandate of the Khan... while Medici's and Fuggers and my ancestors I won't discuss were using Guldens Florins and double entry book keeping secretly taking in hoards of Spanish Gold secretly when the French thought they ruled Neapolitan Italy.

Point being, it takes a long time. We just expect more hand holding and instant gratification because of the "move fast and break things" era with god knows how many insiders on the other side of our web transactions and publications had eyes on information that would make them rich as they on boarded the world to owning more smart phones than living human beings.

/Relevant Rant. People say bitDNS is Namecoin. It's not. It's an altnon WWW domain registry. Data can be stored securely on blocks. The more you transact the more it knows a human readable name to attach to your accounting records and reputation will spread socially because Namecoin and Bitcoin ARE becoming social networks, you will totally see what the Winklevii meant when they proclaimed that in 2004. If you wanna make a DNS service, what you do it you buy quite a few different dot bit domains (d/). You put a few relay nodes up virtually to load balance traffic world wide and have them all talk to eachother as your supernodes like skype. They all have the same phonebook (in the blockchain). You can charge fees if people want to use your network internally to record things to Namecoin besides dot bit like hashes that can stream music when routed to at a subscription rate for decentralized podcasts/radio. You can even route out to Alohanet and not just get on the Google.dns Public 8.8.8.8 DNS severs, you can draw the public traffic in when they realize your secure service works and scales -- like when David Schmidt and 2 Berkeley students made a bridge from the parallel Usenet to the Arpanet it ran parallel too. Funny how a majority of 1980-1995 Usenet Newsgroups are archived in Google Groups and Schmidt became CEO when that all happened. But that's for you to speculate and me to keep to myself.

Any service you do based on the blockchain tools readily available can be run by the Agent Mike Hearn is credited for on another site but not the internet archive since then its been removed. But its a made for Bitcoin/Namecoin services carrying out payments betwen parties and nodes and even doing auto exchanges internally if say, you prefer some more Bitcoins than Namecoins this week. Just program you Agent, and go.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120612191931/https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Agents

Hola yo soy sathosi nakamoto nunca me meto y si pase a otras cosas que le vamos a hacer ahora mi correo es lacanoademariete@hotmail.com gracias necesito ayuda
BTC

No you're trolling. And since I actually found my way from the bitDNS IRC discussions to check up on Jaromil bc I remembered he was the one who changed the directory stucture but no files in the Git that the core devs were running on the day Satoshi emailed Mike Hearn he was out for good on April 23, 2011. Then I remembered Jaromil didn't change any files, just re-organized them to how they look in folders on Github today (back then the host of the web site Git for all to read as they merged and added to the hashes and merkle tree Git uses when your files or changes make it into the mainline. Jaromil <Jaromil@Dyne.org> who made just one commit actually added the COPYING file you  see in Github core dev master branches... He didn't put Satoshi in the copyright, he was the first to write (C) Bitcoin Developers 2009-2011.

The same day Mike Hearn was told Satoshi was gone for good. It's all in this thread.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1521213427112419328.html

Git hashes led me to discover a Korean born US research fellow who received Darpa grants at UWashington CS and worked under some pretty legendary teachers in CS was interning at Microsoft and Google and then got jobs there before moving on to the parent company of who else? LINE in Korea. The Line Blockchain and NFT Market was announced last year. As a Graduate PhD thesis paper he wrote mentioned Bitcoin 10 times and DNS 8, it even referenced Nakamoto and it was focusing on social networks and computing power of something called MetaSync he wrote up about cross-corporation use of their cloud based tools to power a distributed network and said the bitcoin blockchain would be a great model for decentralizing the ledger amongst those parties and the public wasn't a shocker to me.

It's all on my tweets today. Some exist outside the thread.

If anyone who speaks Spanish or Castillian or whatever is Satoshi that's our "develCuy" you can find over in the $DVC altcoin discussion forum or on github where he burst on the scene with Lua and Cryptographic libraries for it in 2014.

[philosophyilo]

Piling every proof-of-work quorum system in the world into one dataset doesn't scale.

Bitcoin and BitDNS can be used separately.  Users shouldn't have to download all of both to use one or the other.  BitDNS users may not want to download everything the next several unrelated networks decide to pile in either.

The networks need to have separate fates.  BitDNS users might be completely liberal about adding any large data features since relatively few domain registrars are needed, while Bitcoin users might get increasingly tyrannical about limiting the size of the chain so it's easy for lots of users and small devices.

Fears about securely buying domains with Bitcoins are a red herring.  It's easy to trade Bitcoins for other non-repudiable commodities.

If you're still worried about it, it's cryptographically possible to make a risk free trade.  The two parties would set up transactions on both sides such that when they both sign the transactions, the second signer's signature triggers the release of both.  The second signer can't release one without releasing the other.