Teresa is going to get a visit from the IRS

[marcus_of_augustus]

The IRS rules by fear and intimidation, in fact they actively promote scare-mongering of how bad-ass they are to intimidate people into over-paying ... look ow muc angst is been expounded in this thread alone ... "don't mess with those guys", etc

now ask yourself this, are you comfortable with an organisation, in a liberal democracy, that has the basis of its function the rule of fear?

It is a pretty sure sign that an agency has become malignant when it rules through fear ... this is no longer a benign peace-loving agency but a malignant force and you would be complicit not to admit that and do whatever you can to oppose rule of fear.

[BTCLuke]

Someone who is acting under duress  is not morally responsible for the actions taken to avoid being harmed. The responsibility belongs to those who are pointing guns at people and telling them what to do.

But who voted these parasites into office?

And who allowed these children to vote that way?

Statism is one big clusterf*ck that must be destroyed from the bottom up. You can't just "take out" the IRS or any part of the government, even if you had superior firepower... With their propaganda campaigns still in play (and yes, that includes both the media and all public schools) the vast majority of sheeple will always fall for the same tricks as the ones that voted in the current batch of murdering psychopaths.

Peer-to-peer everything is the only way forward.

• Fight their economy by decentralizing money. (Bitcoin)
• Fight their propaganda by decentralizing media. (Torrents, TOR, and Mega)
• Fight their corporation-driven laws by decentralizing product creation. (DEFCAD)
• Etc.

IMHO, the only way we can finally NOT have blood on all our hands is by embracing P2P tech fully, and seeing the state be made illegitimate as they lose all their power.

[cho]

Peer-to-peer everything is the only way forward.

• Fight their economy by decentralizing money. (Bitcoin)
• Fight their propaganda by decentralizing media. (Torrents, TOR, and Mega)
• Fight their corporation-driven laws by decentralizing product creation. (DEFCAD)
• Etc.

IMHO, the only way we can finally NOT have blood on all our hands is by embracing P2P tech fully, and seeing the state be made illegitimate as they lose all their power.

I will write that down and fucking frame it.

[glitch003]

I wonder how much (deluded) people embrace bitcoins as a tax evasion medium

I'm not sure this is tax evasion.

The headline of the article is "Bitcoin Celebrated As Way To Avoid Taxes"

Is "avoid" not synonymous with "evade"?

[glitch003]

I know Teresa and Fr33Aid well. I think they are doing this right.

Fr33Aid accepts donations and doesn't pay the workers who are all volunteers. All the donations are used for is expenses, like a defibrillator and bandages. Fr33Aid is also well connected to many knowledgeable new media experts like Free Talk Live.

If the IRS comes down on Fr33Aid it will hit the social networks like a ton of bricks, showing just how harmful the IRS is. The IRS has nothing to gain from this and lots to lose, and I know the folks running the organization are smart enough to mention that to the first agent that messes with them.

Yeah, all that negative attention would really damage the IRS brand!  That'll show em!  Wait, that makes no fucking sense, every single person in the USA already hates the IRS with a fiery passion.  The IRS has NOTHING to lose.

[Hei_]

It'll force the IRS to issue some more detailed tax regulation on Bitcoin though.  In my mind, that's a good thing, as it'll lend additional credibility to Bitcoin.

+1

[bb113]

I wonder how much (deluded) people embrace bitcoins as a tax evasion medium

I'm not sure this is tax evasion.

The headline of the article is "Bitcoin Celebrated As Way To Avoid Taxes"

Is "avoid" not synonymous with "evade"?

Please go to the primary source (the website of this woman's organization). The headline of this article is misleading. I am not sure that this organization needed to file with the IRS to begin with, they were only doing so because banks would not allow them to have an account without doing so. Then again I am not a tax expert.

[BTC Books]

I wonder how much (deluded) people embrace bitcoins as a tax evasion medium

I'm not sure this is tax evasion.

The headline of the article is "Bitcoin Celebrated As Way To Avoid Taxes"

Is "avoid" not synonymous with "evade"?

No.

Evading taxes: i.e., not paying, running from or hiding from them.  That's good for jail time.

Avoiding taxes: i.e., arranging your finances to pay the least taxes possible.  That is quite cricket in the US, and protected by several SCOTUS decisions.

[SgtSpike]

Bitcoin is entirely out of the jurisdiction of the corporate USA. If all you earn is bitcoin, and you don't cash it out - you don't owe the IRS one Satoshi.

Now as soon as you sell them for FRNs - THEN, and ONLY then, do you have to worry about the government trying to steal from you.

I disagree.  If you're doing business within the US, regardless of what unit you use for trade, it can at the very least be considered barter.  And you DO owe taxes on barter.

[lettucebee]

Bitcoin is entirely out of the jurisdiction of the corporate USA. If all you earn is bitcoin, and you don't cash it out - you don't owe the IRS one Satoshi.

Now as soon as you sell them for FRNs - THEN, and ONLY then, do you have to worry about the government trying to steal from you.

I disagree.  If you're doing business within the US, regardless of what unit you use for trade, it can at the very least be considered barter.  And you DO owe taxes on barter.

Thanks for clarifying that.  Could you show me the law that says that, please?

[bb113]

I wonder how much (deluded) people embrace bitcoins as a tax evasion medium

I'm not sure this is tax evasion.

The headline of the article is "Bitcoin Celebrated As Way To Avoid Taxes"

Is "avoid" not synonymous with "evade"?

No.

Evading taxes: i.e., not paying, running from or hiding from them.  That's good for jail time.

Avoiding taxes: i.e., arranging your finances to pay the least taxes possible.  That is quite cricket in the US, and protected by several SCOTUS decisions.

Also it sounds like they would not have to pay taxes anyway. What they are avoiding is filling out a bunch of paper work.

[the founder]

Even non-profits have to file taxes ,  they are mostly exempt of course,  but they are still required to.  

Their tax form looks like this (except 10,000% bigger with 300 pages of bullshit)

1 - donation income and cash equivalents -   100 dollars
2 - expenses -  20 dollars
3 - advertising expenses - 10 dollars
4 - proceeds forwarded to X - 70 dollars

Tax owed - 3 dollars for X and Y and Z

Everyone else has this tax form


1 - income and cash equivalents -   100 dollars
2 - expenses -  20 dollars
3 - advertising expenses - 10 dollars
4 - product inventory expense - 70 dollars

Tax owed - 30 dollars for X and Y and D and U and W and Q and Form 45992-a13 and Z .. oh don't forget Form 39930193990 A-4 and supplement A-6

In other words they still owe taxes,  abit much less.   Not listing bitcoin as a cash equivalent or a barter or whatever would land them right into jail.



 

[SgtSpike]

Bitcoin is entirely out of the jurisdiction of the corporate USA. If all you earn is bitcoin, and you don't cash it out - you don't owe the IRS one Satoshi.

Now as soon as you sell them for FRNs - THEN, and ONLY then, do you have to worry about the government trying to steal from you.

I disagree.  If you're doing business within the US, regardless of what unit you use for trade, it can at the very least be considered barter.  And you DO owe taxes on barter.

Thanks for clarifying that.  Could you show me the law that says that, please?

I couldn't cite for you the specific law, but if you want details, read away...!
http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html

[glitch003]

I wonder how much (deluded) people embrace bitcoins as a tax evasion medium

I'm not sure this is tax evasion.

The headline of the article is "Bitcoin Celebrated As Way To Avoid Taxes"

Is "avoid" not synonymous with "evade"?

No.

Evading taxes: i.e., not paying, running from or hiding from them.  That's good for jail time.

Avoiding taxes: i.e., arranging your finances to pay the least taxes possible.  That is quite cricket in the US, and protected by several SCOTUS decisions.

Also it sounds like they would not have to pay taxes anyway. What they are avoiding is filling out a bunch of paper work.

Yeah you're right about that.  Sounds like they're just being lazy.  I would be pissed if I donated money to them and they pulled this BS.  Even if they keep all their money in BTC, the IRS can still freeze their USD account and since nobody accepts BTC for expenses right now, they could potentially have a bunch of donations that they are unable to use.  If you're a non-profit, just fill out the paperwork. 

But instead they whine "oh noes, I made the mistake of setting up a charity as a for-profit LLC and now it's bunch of work to get it registered as a nonprofit so I'll break the law and try to hide my donations, because somehow, that is less work than just filling out the damn forms."

Hmm, maybe you shouldn't have set up a charity as a for-profit LLC in the first place and the government actually isn't the bad guy here, you just made the mistake of not doing your research before you started a company.

[jgarzik]

The reporter failed to even view the basic information available on the bitcoin.org home page, http://bitcoin.org/en/you-need-to-know

Don't forget government taxes

Bitcoin is not an official currency. That said, most jurisdictions still require you to pay income, sales, payroll, and capital gains taxes on anything that has value, including Bitcoin.

[melon]

Dealers in Foreign Exchange

            A person must exchange the currency of two or more countries to be considered a dealer in foreign exchange.19 Virtual currency does not meet the criteria to be considered "currency" under the BSA, because it is not legal tender. Therefore, a person who accepts real currency in exchange for virtual currency, or vice versa, is not a dealer in foreign exchange under FinCEN's regulations.

according to the link it is NOT treated as FOREIGN CURRENCY, however it does meet the criteria of a "convertible" virtual currency in the three types listed above that reference as either:
 a.) E-Currencies and E-Precious Metals
 b.) Centralized Virtual Currencies
 c.) De-Centralized Virtual Currencies   - an exchange like Mt. Gox would fit either b. or c. here but I can't decipher which one it would be by the way its worded but it is definitely NOT treated as a legal tender foreign exchange currency... you would have to trade two legal tender foreign pairs to be considered so

...so what do think is it b. or c.?...

and yet there's still this-under a.)e-currencies

...Since the definition of a money transmitter does not differentiate between real currencies and convertible virtual currencies...

...therefore miners who exchange part of their btc count to cash  to pay utility payments might be considered money transmitters but not foreign currency exchangers...

how a person engages in "obtaining" a virtual currency may be described using any number of other terms, such as "earning," "harvesting," "mining," "creating," "auto-generating," "manufacturing," or "purchasing," depending on the details of the specific virtual currency model involved. For purposes of this guidance, the label applied to a particular process of obtaining a virtual currency is not material to the legal characterization under the BSA of the process or of the person engaging in the process

... either way it will be taxed !

[the founder]

You guys realize it doesn't matter what we establish in this thread the end result comes from the IRS who will decide what is good and what is not

[marcus_of_augustus]

You guys realize it doesn't matter what we establish in this thread the end result comes from the IRS who will decide what is good and what is not

You're in love with the IRS aren't you? ... go on you can admit it, you love the authority, security and stability they bring to your world, in fact your dream job is as an IRS agent isn't it?

Edit: this might interest you http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130418/NEWS03/304180073/24-IRS-workers-TN-accused-theft?nclick_check=1

First it was the families of dead people and state employees. Now, authorities say Internal Revenue Service employees in Tennessee were stealing unemployment and other benefits while fully employed.

On Thursday, 13 of those employees were indicted on federal charges that they lied to get unemployment, food stamps, welfare and housing vouchers. An additional 11 have been indicted on state charges of theft greater than $1,000.

In all, authorities say the workers improperly received more than $250,000 in government benefits.

[the founder]

You guys realize it doesn't matter what we establish in this thread the end result comes from the IRS who will decide what is good and what is not

You're in love with the IRS aren't you? ... go on you can admit it, you love the authority, security and stability they bring to your world, in fact your dream job is as an IRS agent isn't it?

ROFL!!  until 1910 we didn't even have a need for the IRS,  it's a problematic monster that complicates life to the point of making it very difficult to start your own business.    Prime Example,  if I wanted to start up a bitcoin to USD exchange today...   I have to allocate at least a million or more to compliance just to get off the floor.   

Audits,  etc etc... 

[ramus313]

It'll force the IRS to issue some more detailed tax regulation on Bitcoin though.  In my mind, that's a good thing, as it'll lend additional credibility to Bitcoin.

I agree 100%, I mean isn't this in a sense similar to laundering money?