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Author Topic: AMD Zen CPU's: Ryzen and Naples  (Read 4491 times)
PovertyByte
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February 15, 2017, 06:29:13 AM
 #1

Most here probably heard about all the Ryzen hype. CPU's that are 8 cores and 16 threads with a greater GHz/Watts ratio for a 1/3rd to 1/4th the price of Intel

Something not mny talk about is the AMD server Zen based CPU's currently under the name Naples

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3159132/servers/amd-tries-to-drum-up-support-for-32-core-zen-server-chip.html

These are up to 32 cores which exceeds the Xeon CPU's right now and we could speculate they will be cheaper and more powerful than Xeon. This could be a game changer for CPU mining some coins like XMR or CPU mining new altcoins. GPU shack has a 128 core machine built that mines 3800H/s on XMR at 1000watts. It would take less motherboards and total CPU's to do that with AMD


I doubt many here will build CPU mining rigs but do you think that we will see an invrease in CPU mining from people with their regular computers and a few people going the server route once a few generations pass and these chips are being sold used for cheap as well as the motherboards?
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felixbrucker
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February 15, 2017, 10:48:38 AM
 #2

ill add the following (it is afaik not confirmed, we will need to see):

small question to joblo (or anyone competent in that field, im not Tongue)

i just read the following about upcoming ryzen arch:

Quote
AMD left out 256bit AVX to save space and power to allow for higher clocks, but it can still decode avx, but it uses 2x128 bit, so it takes 2 cycles for 1 avx instruction.

if this turns out to be true, does it have an impact on mining speeds? i suppose yes

cheers

It will reduce the compute power of AVX2 code which will affect some algos, mostly Lyra2 based algos, algos that use
cubehash (x11 family) and Hodl, essentially any algo that reports AVX2 capability. However, if an algo is I/O bound a small
loss in compute power may not affect the hashrate significantly. I'd think twice before buying one for mining.

Edit: I expect the performance to be equal to AVX, maybe a little better.

Edit: I don't know what will happen to AVX2 intrinsic or assembly code. If Ryzen doesn't recongize AVX2 instructions it may
have to rely on the compiler not to generate them. That won't work for hardcoded AVX2. If, on the other hand, Ryzen
internally converts them to their AVX equivalent that won't be a problem.


im not sure about the server cpus, they will likely have the avx 256 included (?), would be interesting to see their performance if so
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February 15, 2017, 11:03:38 AM
 #3

Doubtful it will make much sense CPU minning with it. But still good thing for comepetition and putting some presure on Intel.
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February 15, 2017, 11:14:51 AM
 #4

You are forgetting about new gpus. CPU mining will never be as good as GPU mining due to CPU to GPU cost comparison. If you invest same amount of money into CPU and GPU mining you would get ROI much faster on GPU rigs.
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February 15, 2017, 11:20:45 AM
 #5

It will definitely be worth testing as there might be something to learn.  If you're not learning in mining you're falling behind, I will be testing a Ryzen setup for CPU mining and prepping the rig for Vega Grin.

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February 15, 2017, 11:21:52 AM
 #6

It will definitely be worth testing as there might be something to learn.  If you're not learning in mining you're falling behind, I will be testing a Ryzen setup for CPU mining and prepping the rig the Vega Grin.



please post your findings when you have the system ready Smiley
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February 15, 2017, 11:43:21 AM
 #7

It will definitely be worth testing as there might be something to learn.  If you're not learning in mining you're falling behind, I will be testing a Ryzen setup for CPU mining and prepping the rig the Vega Grin.



please post your findings when you have the system ready Smiley

We will see what I can do, it will be a first crack at AMD CPU mining on a new release so anything can happen.
 
PovertyByte
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February 15, 2017, 11:22:31 PM
 #8

You are forgetting about new gpus. CPU mining will never be as good as GPU mining due to CPU to GPU cost comparison. If you invest same amount of money into CPU and GPU mining you would get ROI much faster on GPU rigs.

There will always be new CPU's and GPU's

CPU mining rigs are not so convenient but I figure that GPU shack setup exist for a reason. Looking at this page there are CPU's that can mine a decant amount on XMR and there may be future coins that do well for CPU's. CPU's also have the chance to really farm up some early alts and sell on the pump http://monerobechmarks.byethost5.com/

ill add the following (it is afaik not confirmed, we will need to see):

small question to joblo (or anyone competent in that field, im not Tongue)

i just read the following about upcoming ryzen arch:

Quote
AMD left out 256bit AVX to save space and power to allow for higher clocks, but it can still decode avx, but it uses 2x128 bit, so it takes 2 cycles for 1 avx instruction.

if this turns out to be true, does it have an impact on mining speeds? i suppose yes

cheers

It will reduce the compute power of AVX2 code which will affect some algos, mostly Lyra2 based algos, algos that use
cubehash (x11 family) and Hodl, essentially any algo that reports AVX2 capability. However, if an algo is I/O bound a small
loss in compute power may not affect the hashrate significantly. I'd think twice before buying one for mining.

Edit: I expect the performance to be equal to AVX, maybe a little better.

Edit: I don't know what will happen to AVX2 intrinsic or assembly code. If Ryzen doesn't recongize AVX2 instructions it may
have to rely on the compiler not to generate them. That won't work for hardcoded AVX2. If, on the other hand, Ryzen
internally converts them to their AVX equivalent that won't be a problem.


im not sure about the server cpus, they will likely have the avx 256 included (?), would be interesting to see their performance if so

There just had to be something missing. I'll have to look into what avx256 is needed for before making a Ryzn rig. Probably not happening this year anyway for me.
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February 15, 2017, 11:42:38 PM
 #9

You are forgetting about new gpus. CPU mining will never be as good as GPU mining due to CPU to GPU cost comparison. If you invest same amount of money into CPU and GPU mining you would get ROI much faster on GPU rigs.

There will always be new CPU's and GPU's

CPU mining rigs are not so convenient but I figure that GPU shack setup exist for a reason. Looking at this page there are CPU's that can mine a decant amount on XMR and there may be future coins that do well for CPU's. CPU's also have the chance to really farm up some early alts and sell on the pump http://monerobechmarks.byethost5.com/
if coin can be mined with CPU and GPU both, I don't really see the future of CPU mining there. And for CPU only coins, they are usually forgotten by traders in few days. Fact is that GPUs are just better than CPUs at mining for same invested money.
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February 19, 2017, 01:40:22 AM
 #10


im not sure about the server cpus, they will likely have the avx 256 included (?), would be interesting to see their performance if so

Only certain applications benefit from SIMD instructions of SSE and AVX, and I din't think servers are high on the list.
SIMD is great for things like spread sheets that involve the same operation being performed on multiple data, and of
course, graphics applications. If AVX2 is not in the desktop version I doubt it will be in the server.

Many CPU oriented algos are so because of their memory bandwidth requirements. Those algos can't use all the compute
power available because they are slowed down by memory accesses. This severely affects GPU ming performance but
also affects CPU performance at a lesser degree. Algos like cryptonight are maxed out with only 4 threads on an i7.
The compute power of Ryzen may not be a factor in CPU mining, it may all come down to cache size and memory
bandwidth.

Principal developer of cpuminer-opt, the optimized multi-algo CPU miner.
BTC donation address: 12tdvfF7KmAsihBXQXynT6E6th2c2pByTT
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Xeon_Xeon
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February 25, 2017, 05:27:18 PM
 #11

Most here probably heard about all the Ryzen hype. CPU's that are 8 cores and 16 threads with a greater GHz/Watts ratio for a 1/3rd to 1/4th the price of Intel

Something not mny talk about is the AMD server Zen based CPU's currently under the name Naples

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3159132/servers/amd-tries-to-drum-up-support-for-32-core-zen-server-chip.html

These are up to 32 cores which exceeds the Xeon CPU's right now and we could speculate they will be cheaper and more powerful than Xeon. This could be a game changer for CPU mining some coins like XMR or CPU mining new altcoins. GPU shack has a 128 core machine built that mines 3800H/s on XMR at 1000watts. It would take less motherboards and total CPU's to do that with AMD


I doubt many here will build CPU mining rigs but do you think that we will see an invrease in CPU mining from people with their regular computers and a few people going the server route once a few generations pass and these chips are being sold used for cheap as well as the motherboards?

I am really interested with the new cpu's AMD will be coming out with mainly for the competition that will hopefully force Intel to drop prices and that will drop prices of used server stuff.

My main rig is a dual Zeon E5-2667 V3 ES setup.  The E5-2667 ES cpu's have 35 mb of L3 cache each, 70 mb total, so using the general rule of 2 mb per thread to mine monero I am able to run all 32 threads plus two RX 480 4 gb gpu's and my hash rate is ~2300 on a pc that I can still use every day for my regular stuff like surfing the internet watching netflix and everything except gaming all while its mining away.

I did not build this as a dedicated mining rig, its my main play/doeverything pc.

When I build my next main rig this one will be a dedicated mining rig for monero, the board has 7 full length slots plus a whole bunch of pci-e lanes with the dual Xeons and I would like to try more than 7 gpu's on it eventually.

So I highly recommend server grade hardware IF you can get it priced right.  
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February 25, 2017, 05:38:33 PM
 #12

You are forgetting about new gpus. CPU mining will never be as good as GPU mining due to CPU to GPU cost comparison. If you invest same amount of money into CPU and GPU mining you would get ROI much faster on GPU rigs.


My E-5 2667 V3 ES cpu's mine about the same H/s as my unmodded RX480's , they all do about 565 -575 H/s each.

And the prices were comparable.

But that is with used cpu's vs new gpu's so it can be done but with gpu's you don't need an expensive motherboard, even used a dual 2011-3 board is pricey.

I bought my motherboard new at $370.00, AsrockRack EP2C612 WS.

If I was solely wanting to build mining rigs I could have bought a cheap 1150 board and a couple of gpu's for that price.

For the price/performance gpu's cant be beat.
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February 25, 2017, 07:03:22 PM
 #13

Most here probably heard about all the Ryzen hype. CPU's that are 8 cores and 16 threads with a greater GHz/Watts ratio for a 1/3rd to 1/4th the price of Intel

Something not mny talk about is the AMD server Zen based CPU's currently under the name Naples

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3159132/servers/amd-tries-to-drum-up-support-for-32-core-zen-server-chip.html

These are up to 32 cores which exceeds the Xeon CPU's right now and we could speculate they will be cheaper and more powerful than Xeon. This could be a game changer for CPU mining some coins like XMR or CPU mining new altcoins. GPU shack has a 128 core machine built that mines 3800H/s on XMR at 1000watts. It would take less motherboards and total CPU's to do that with AMD


I doubt many here will build CPU mining rigs but do you think that we will see an invrease in CPU mining from people with their regular computers and a few people going the server route once a few generations pass and these chips are being sold used for cheap as well as the motherboards?

there is a fresh article about the new AMD serises Ryzen based processors:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/amd-ryzen-specs-performance-release-date
according to the article ,the first  three processors are available for pre-order starting 22.02.2017
it is quite remarkable that their CPUs are going to be 2-3 times cheaper than their Intel counterparts
yet they are beating them in tests,of course it is all  on paper only,we have to get our hands on one of them babies to be able to judge
but it is looking very promising
as for the CPU mining-there are some coins that would benefit from a higher speed,low power ( 95 w TDP is amazing) CPU
but I doubt it would make any impact,after all GPUs have proven to be the better and more efficient option when mining altcoins

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February 27, 2017, 10:46:49 PM
 #14

I'm gonna wait for the 4 core ones to come out @ 150 ,i can't see me buying this one coming in a few days or the 8 core one that can actually be used as  16  like Intel does now .. if it hasn't yet .I'll be happy with 8 cores or 4 cores with 4 vm cores .. and @all most 400 bucks i don't need 16 cores or 8+8 VM cores I know it is a lot cheaper then Intel but would rather wait to see how well they hold up also , i did buy a few  FX 8 cores way back when they first came out day one ...not gonna rush it this time  ... ...plus I'm about to buy a A4 136 mh ...this year is turning into a very good year for me and my family.
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February 28, 2017, 02:01:13 AM
 #15

I'll probably buy a Ryzen 3 for just general use and not for mining and sell my aging 4790... Works nice but I'd like to use a newer CPU. Would also get me a few extra bucks for GPUs. Overall just happy AMD is finally stepping up their game against Intel and prices are being slashed all over the place with CPUs.














 

 

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veleten
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February 28, 2017, 02:24:49 AM
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I'll probably buy a Ryzen 3 for just general use and not for mining and sell my aging 4790... Works nice but I'd like to use a newer CPU. Would also get me a few extra bucks for GPUs. Overall just happy AMD is finally stepping up their game against Intel and prices are being slashed all over the place with CPUs.

I would like to buy a new CPU as well,the problem is this upgrade will certainly require a new motherboard
what I liked about AMD CPUs besides their price,of course
was their socket backward compatibility,AM3+ lasted for what ,6 years already
Intel produces better CPus,but they also make you change your motherboard each time you wanted to buy a next generation processor
lets hope Ryzen is not just hot air paper tiger and it will be able to take substantial part of the processor market off of Intel
competiton leads to progress

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joblo
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February 28, 2017, 05:07:49 AM
 #17

Cheaper and faster than Intel, that's hard to believe. A cheap CPU is no good for mining because of the overhead
of the rest of the PC. You can't put 6 CPUs in one pc like you can with GPUs so you want the fastest CPU you can get
to get the most from the PC.

Principal developer of cpuminer-opt, the optimized multi-algo CPU miner.
BTC donation address: 12tdvfF7KmAsihBXQXynT6E6th2c2pByTT
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toptek
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February 28, 2017, 07:03:19 PM
 #18

Cheaper and faster than Intel, that's hard to believe. A cheap CPU is no good for mining because of the overhead
of the rest of the PC. You can't put 6 CPUs in one pc like you can with GPUs so you want the fastest CPU you can get
to get the most from the PC.

why not at one time AMD was king even over Intel in fact i remember CPU wars till AMD wtf up ... then they lost out big time and Intel took over why cant AMD do it again ..? ..

AMD is a lot different then they were when they all most went out of business a while back and i was told are working on the next die of 10nm ..

 I can AMD did this or that and I'm sure you would try to down play that so i won't brother but I am holding off for just the reason you stated to see how it holds up this time ..... but to say they can't because the CPU is cheap in price doesn't mean it is cheaply made or it can't handle it beyond Intel or match it.. or it's cheap because of the price ...
mojoxc
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February 28, 2017, 07:07:05 PM
 #19

I am going with AMD for the longer chipset cycle time, nothing more annoying then having chipset and sockets retired every few months.
joblo
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February 28, 2017, 07:31:41 PM
 #20

Cheaper and faster than Intel, that's hard to believe. A cheap CPU is no good for mining because of the overhead
of the rest of the PC. You can't put 6 CPUs in one pc like you can with GPUs so you want the fastest CPU you can get
to get the most from the PC.

why not at one time AMD was king even over Intel in fact i remember CPU wars till AMD wtf up ... then they lost out big time and Intel took over why cant AMD do it again ..? ..

AMD is a lot different then they were when they all most went out of business a while back and i was told are working on the next die of 10nm ..

 I can AMD did this or that and I'm sure you would try to down play that so i won't brother but I am holding off for just the reason you stated to see how it holds up this time ..... but to say they can't because the CPU is cheap in price doesn't mean it is cheaply made or it can't handle it beyond Intel or match it.. or it's cheap because of the price ...

Take your fanboy hat off and read again. I didn't say cheap amd, I said cheap CPU, cheap intel is no good either.

The only thing I said about AMD is it's hard to believe the ryzen will be cheaper and faster than intel for
cpu mining. Intel has previously benefitted from hyperthreading and better power efficciency and better
implementation of AVX2. In Ryzen AVX2 will be faked, I don't know how or what effect it will have on
performance. They have implemented hyperthreading but this first attempt will not likely compete with
Intel yet. Can they beat Intel on performance? Not likely.

I wish they could. Intel has no real competition in the workstation and server market and that is not a good thing.

Can AMD compete on price. That's up to them. I wish they would because it would put pressure on Intel prices.

Principal developer of cpuminer-opt, the optimized multi-algo CPU miner.
BTC donation address: 12tdvfF7KmAsihBXQXynT6E6th2c2pByTT
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1326803.0
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