in early stages of bitcoin era, the war on exchanges has started doing victims

[antimattercrusader]

We need a wide array of exchanges, both the decentralized and centralized.

I am all for down with the banks, but when you think about it, the concept of a bank is not "evil." They perform a service, and what we have now have gotten a bit overzealous lol, but it doesn't have to be that way. If an FDIC insured fiat bank put bitcoin into their mix, that might be an entity we can trust, and for those who don't, the free market will bring them decentralized exchanges too.

Imo.

[dg2010]

if current system is too bad, go use person-2-person transactions.

Because that's so easy to do right? Wake up. Bitcoin will die a slow death if the only thing left is P2P exchange.

[kokjo]

if current system is too bad, go use person-2-person transactions.

Because that's so easy to do right? Wake up. Bitcoin will die a slow death if the only thing left is P2P exchange.

no it wil not.

[BitcoinAshley]

Nice history lesson here. So we can see that throughout the history of bitcoins, NUMEROUS exchanges have been closing, some returning funds, some just stealing funds, some being hacked -
And bitcoins aren't $2.

So the FUD is useless.

Exchanges have CONSTANTLY been closing, hacked, looted by owners, shut down by banks - for as long as the old-timers can remember.

And bitcoins aren't $2.

And are still gaining in popularity and adoption.

LOL. Go bitcoin!

Wait, there are people saying that P2P will kill bitcoin -
1) It is very unlikely that we will ever have to resort to 100% P2P, seeing as exchanges have been shutting down left and right for the last 2 years yet I still have more exchanges to choose from than I can count on my ten fingers.
2) How do you get fiat cash money? How do you get apples and oranges? What about shampoo or a car? OH RITE... P2P. Tell me more about how all of those markets are dead...

LOL. Keep trying, FUD trolls.

[epetroel]

You haven't been here long since you failed to mention tradehill 

Indeed.  There's a reason why most of the old-timers won't use Dwolla, and never will.

What's the issue with Dwolla? If it's only used as a passthrough from a local bank account to MtGox, there shouldn't be any risk of losing funds. The fee is negligible, the only downside is that it usually takes about a week to funds.

The issue with Dwolla is that back in the day they screwed over Tradehill (and probably MtGox and ExchangeBitcoins.com as well) to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars.

In a nutshell, it went like this:

1.  Dwolla's marketing claimed that Dwolla payments were irreversable.
2.  Because of (1) lots of exchanges accepted Dwolla.
3.  People started defrauding Dwolla using stolen bank account information, transferring money to exchanges and running off with the coins.
4.  Rather than sucking it up and improving their security measures, Dwolla started secretly debiting the exchanges Dwolla accounts - erasing the fraudulant transactions and clawing the money back from the exchanges.
5.  Once the exchanges figured this out, there was quite an uproar.  ExchangeBitcoins stopped accepting Dwolla and closed down soon after.  Tradehill did the same (and sued Dwolla as I understand it).

Since then it seems like Dwolla has beefed up their verification standards so this is less of an issue now, but lots of people are still (justifiably) butthurt about it.

[Viceroy]

Exchanges will come and go, that's just part of the evolution of bitcoin. As exchanges close, others will open. We've seen several stories recently of venture capitalists and entrepreneurs starting new bitcoin exchanges and there's even the guy who is creating bitcoin ATM's.

we cannot wait.  we need better yesterday

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179147

[DeathAndTaxes]

you don't need Exchanges to get Cash or BTC..

Well an individual might not but a business does.  If businesses can't sell coins (in mass i.e. thousands of BTC a week) to cover their USD costs then they can't accept Bitcoins.  If businesses can't accept Bitcoins then what is the point in user adoption.

Note I am not bearish.  These challenges will be overcome just pointing out that despite you being able to meet someone at starbucks to exchange $100 for BTC doesn't mean that exchanges aren't necessary.  I will give you one example.  In March we sold about $500K worth of bullion for BTC.  I am not going to meet people in person every day to try an unload $500K worth of BTC.  Even if I could it would massively increase my costs/time AND  I would become a bitcoin speculator (I likely would need to be long tens of thousands of BTC at any period of time).

Now imagine a company doing 10x as much volume or 100x.  Even that isn't nothing like a major corporation.  Exchanges are necessary. 

[Rygon]

The issue with Dwolla is that back in the day they screwed over Tradehill (and probably MtGox and ExchangeBitcoins.com as well) to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars.

In a nutshell, it went like this:

1.  Dwolla's marketing claimed that Dwolla payments were irreversable.
2.  Because of (1) lots of exchanges accepted Dwolla.
3.  People started defrauding Dwolla using stolen bank account information, transferring money to exchanges and running off with the coins.
4.  Rather than sucking it up and improving their security measures, Dwolla started secretly debiting the exchanges Dwolla accounts - erasing the fraudulant transactions and clawing the money back from the exchanges.
5.  Once the exchanges figured this out, there was quite an uproar.  ExchangeBitcoins stopped accepting Dwolla and closed down soon after.  Tradehill did the same (and sued Dwolla as I understand it).

Since then it seems like Dwolla has beefed up their verification standards so this is less of an issue now, but lots of people are still (justifiably) butthurt about it.

Ahh. OK. Thanks for the explanation. I'd be pissed to if I ended up getting screwed because of Dwolla too, even if it seems like they have fixed things.

[EuroTrash]

updated thread with MtGox SEPA delays and Bank of America issues.

[Slix]

if current system is too bad, go use person-2-person transactions.

Because that's so easy to do right? Wake up. Bitcoin will die a slow death if the only thing left is P2P exchange.

no it wil not.

How do you plan on getting the merchants and average non-tech savvy Joe onboard with using bitcoin as their main form of currency if they have to jump through hoops to get some in or out?

Believe it or not the rest of the world outside the (pretty small) bitcoin community very much runs on fiat. If you don't make this easy as hell as in the click of a button or an ATM machine screen, then they won't get onboard. Nobody will take it seriously and it will remain traded by just a bunch of "geeks and hackers" as the MSM puts it.

Exchanges are the key to this and our current Achilles' heel vs banks and governments until the world is free of fiat.

[donjoe]

How could you lose faith in bitcoin when it's entire purpose is to protect against a governing entity severing you from your cash... and that is exactly what is happening here. Bitcoin withdrawls still functioning normally!

Errr, NO, they're not still functioning normally. Currently all my BTC are stuck in bitcoin-24.com's coldwallet(s) because somehow the baseless legal action taken against Simon has not only left him without access to his fiat accounts but also determined(?) him to stop processing BTC withdrawals.

If your BTC can get stuck inside or disappear together with an exchange's wallets, how is this better than using fiat and banks? And if numerous customers can lose their BTC instantly when their exchange collapses, how are they supposed to ever trust anyone with their BTC ever again? This is what all the wide-eyed "Libertarians" don't understand about their precious completely-free-market type systems: they either suffer from huge trust issues or gradually develop more and more state-like security solutions (typically the second, because most people like a good dose of security in their lives).

[MykelJH]

if current system is too bad, go use person-2-person transactions.

Because that's so easy to do right? Wake up. Bitcoin will die a slow death if the only thing left is P2P exchange.

no it wil not.

How do you plan on getting the merchants and average non-tech savvy Joe onboard with using bitcoin as their main form of currency if they have to jump through hoops to get some in or out?

Believe it or not the rest of the world outside the (pretty small) bitcoin community very much runs on fiat. If you don't make this easy as hell as in the click of a button or an ATM machine screen, then they won't get onboard. Nobody will take it seriously and it will remain traded by just a bunch of "geeks and hackers" as the MSM puts it.

Exchanges are the key to this and our current Achilles' heel vs banks and governments until the world is free of fiat.

This is how I feel as I fit the average joe that isn't tech savvy at all. I find it overwhelming still, but still sticking with it mainly because I love e idea and see the potential. I cannot say the same with people I have talked too about it, I get em excited they see how much work it is and then get bored

[Chalkbot]

How could you lose faith in bitcoin when it's entire purpose is to protect against a governing entity severing you from your cash... and that is exactly what is happening here. Bitcoin withdrawls still functioning normally!

Errr, NO, they're not still functioning normally. Currently all my BTC are stuck in bitcoin-24.com's coldwallet(s) because somehow the baseless legal action taken against Simon has not only left him without access to his fiat accounts but also determined(?) him to stop processing BTC withdrawals.

If your BTC can get stuck inside or disappear together with an exchange's wallets, how is this better than using fiat and banks? And if numerous customers can lose their BTC instantly when their exchange collapses, how are they supposed to ever trust anyone with their BTC ever again? This is what all the wide-eyed "Libertarians" don't understand about their precious completely-free-market type systems: they either suffer from huge trust issues or gradually develop more and more state-like security solutions (typically the second, because most people like a good dose of security in their lives).

Sorry, I had not heard that bit of news. It is worrisome, but I wonder how exactly this is being enforced? I would be suspicious of the exchange that doesn't just restore the backup and give everyone their coins.

[wonkytonky]

Die Gründe für die Schließung unserer Konten durch internationale Großbanken sind uns nun bekannt und rechtlich mehr als fragwürdig. Unsere Rechtsanwälte gehen mit aller Konsequenz gegen dieses Verhalten vor. Wir gehen davon aus, dass wir kurzfristig wieder vollständig handlungsfähig sind und alle Geschäfte mit noch größerem Engagement im Sinne aller Nutzer vorantreiben können. Die Sorgen der Großbanken sind uns ein zusätzlicher Ansporn dabei! Wir werden sie zeitnah über die weitere Entwicklung informieren.
(English this evening)


basicaly..   bitcoin24 will come back !  

[keewee]

Die Gründe für die Schließung unserer Konten durch internationale Großbanken sind uns nun bekannt und rechtlich mehr als fragwürdig. Unsere Rechtsanwälte gehen mit aller Konsequenz gegen dieses Verhalten vor. Wir gehen davon aus, dass wir kurzfristig wieder vollständig handlungsfähig sind und alle Geschäfte mit noch größerem Engagement im Sinne aller Nutzer vorantreiben können. Die Sorgen der Großbanken sind uns ein zusätzlicher Ansporn dabei! Wir werden sie zeitnah über die weitere Entwicklung informieren.
(English this evening)


basicaly..   bitcoin24 will come back !  

Google Translate: The reasons for the closing of our accounts with major international banks are now known to us and legally more than questionable. Our lawyers go before the full consequences to this behavior. We assume that we are ready again fully operational and all transactions can drive with even greater commitment on behalf of all users. The concerns of the major banks are us an additional incentive there! We will inform you promptly of further development.

[EuroTrash]

Die Gründe für die Schließung unserer Konten durch internationale Großbanken sind uns nun bekannt und rechtlich mehr als fragwürdig. Unsere Rechtsanwälte gehen mit aller Konsequenz gegen dieses Verhalten vor. Wir gehen davon aus, dass wir kurzfristig wieder vollständig handlungsfähig sind und alle Geschäfte mit noch größerem Engagement im Sinne aller Nutzer vorantreiben können. Die Sorgen der Großbanken sind uns ein zusätzlicher Ansporn dabei! Wir werden sie zeitnah über die weitere Entwicklung informieren.
(English this evening)


basicaly..   bitcoin24 will come back !  

Google Translate: The reasons for the closing of our accounts with major international banks are now known to us and legally more than questionable. Our lawyers go before the full consequences to this behavior. We assume that we are ready again fully operational and all transactions can drive with even greater commitment on behalf of all users. The concerns of the major banks are us an additional incentive there! We will inform you promptly of further development.

Not that easy. You can't unblock a bank account with a litigation in progress.
But he just spoke to his lawyer - who for the first time gave him some hope, so he is on a high.

This Simon guy desperately needs a holiday.

[Richy_T]

Not that easy. You can't unblock a bank account with a litigation in progress.
But he just spoke to his lawyer - who for the first time gave him some hope, so he is on a high.

This Simon guy desperately needs a holiday.

The bitcoins of mine that I can't access don't require a bank. And I only have/had a few there. I can only imagine what those with substantial funds tied up feel like.

[dbc_amp]

updated thread with MtGox SEPA delays and Bank of America issues.

Update it again. This morning my SEPA transfer arrived. Less than 48h, as always.

[EuroTrash]

updated thread with MtGox SEPA delays and Bank of America issues.

Update it again. This morning my SEPA transfer arrived. Less than 48h, as always.

Done. But mine didn't, and it's already 6 days.

[navigator]

I prefer virwox. Been using them since last Nov for buying and light trading. They have been around since before bitcoin. I believe they could be the most trustworthy exchange. If i'm in a hurry to get bitcoins, I can get them within 5mins.

P.S. Someone just made a buy up to about $150 on virwox. I guess they really needed their coins lol. It caught one of my sells around $145, guess I'm looking to buy again