[POLL] Should the Altcoin world work with govt authorities or fight them ?

[Spoetnik]

I see this matter as an ever growing serious issue with laws and regulations increasing / looming.
We are going to have to confront this issue at some point..

Either you are willing to compromise and work with authorities or you are going to have to get ready for a battle !

What side will you be on people ?

Oh and i vote "Work Together" because i think it's what we need to do to get a currency used / adopted.

[dinofelis]

I see this matter as an ever growing serious issue with laws and regulations increasing / looming.
We are going to have to confront this issue at some point..

Either you are willing to compromise and work with authorities or you are going to have to get ready for a battle !

What side will you be on people ?

Oh and i vote "Work Together" because i think it's what we need to do to get a currency used / adopted.

See my post in the thread on "the rise and rise of monero".

Crypto has no reason to exist inside a legal system and is even outright dangerous as a tool to oppress people and have governments steal people even more.

There is not a single reason to desire "crypto adoption" in that case.  On the contrary.  If crypto could go away it would be much better in that case.

[BitcoinHodler]

I see this matter as an ever growing serious issue with laws and regulations increasing / looming.
We are going to have to confront this issue at some point..

Either you are willing to compromise and work with authorities or you are going to have to get ready for a battle !

What side will you be on people ?

Oh and i vote "Work Together" because i think it's what we need to do to get a currency used / adopted.

See my post in the thread on "the rise and rise of monero".

Crypto has no reason to exist inside a legal system and is even outright dangerous as a tool to oppress people and have governments steal people even more.

There is not a single reason to desire "crypto adoption" in that case.  On the contrary.  If crypto could go away it would be much better in that case.

believe it or not we are living in a society and as a citizen you can't hide from the law and think you are above it just because you are using a cryptocurrency.
they need to be regulated.

although to answer OP i say things need to be done right. sometimes regulations aren't all good, sometimes they are too restrictive that will cause businesses to stay away from cryptocurrencies just because of these restrictions.
so as long as our privacy is not completely compromised and we aren't forced to do some crazy stuff just to use them i am for it.

[qwizzie]

I see this matter as an ever growing serious issue with laws and regulations increasing / looming.
We are going to have to confront this issue at some point..

Either you are willing to compromise and work with authorities or you are going to have to get ready for a battle !

What side will you be on people ?

Oh and i vote "Work Together" because i think it's what we need to do to get a currency used / adopted.

See my post in the thread on "the rise and rise of monero".

Crypto has no reason to exist inside a legal system and is even outright dangerous as a tool to oppress people and have governments steal people even more.

There is not a single reason to desire "crypto adoption" in that case.  On the contrary.  If crypto could go away it would be much better in that case.

believe it or not we are living in a society and as a citizen you can't hide from the law and think you are above it just because you are using a cryptocurrency.
they need to be regulated.

although to answer OP i say things need to be done right. sometimes regulations aren't all good, sometimes they are too restrictive that will cause businesses to stay away from cryptocurrencies just because of these restrictions.
so as long as our privacy is not completely compromised and we aren't forced to do some crazy stuff just to use them i am for it.

I agree with BitcoinHodler point of view.

[dinofelis]

I see this matter as an ever growing serious issue with laws and regulations increasing / looming.
We are going to have to confront this issue at some point..

Either you are willing to compromise and work with authorities or you are going to have to get ready for a battle !

What side will you be on people ?

Oh and i vote "Work Together" because i think it's what we need to do to get a currency used / adopted.

See my post in the thread on "the rise and rise of monero".

Crypto has no reason to exist inside a legal system and is even outright dangerous as a tool to oppress people and have governments steal people even more.

There is not a single reason to desire "crypto adoption" in that case.  On the contrary.  If crypto could go away it would be much better in that case.

believe it or not we are living in a society and as a citizen you can't hide from the law and think you are above it just because you are using a cryptocurrency.
they need to be regulated.

Well, I think one can perfectly well live in a society without state and law, but only on a contractual basis.  But that's a political opinion, that must sound as strange today as the statement that one could live in a society without a king sounded in the middle ages.

However, that is not the gist of the discussion.  If you think that one should live in a society with state and law, then *there is not a single use case for crypto currencies*.

Because the fundamental principle of a crypto currency is distributed, open trustlessness.  It is the need for this trustlessness which brings all the hassle of it.  If there is state and law, there is a central authority which should have might over everything.  That is in fundamental contradiction with distributed trustlessness.

It is fundamentally impossible to have a "regulated crypto currency" that is at the same time, not totally degenerated into a fiat currency.  Because in order to be regulated, it needs to be traceable, confiscable, stoppable and reversible, by a central authority, something that is totally orthogonal to its conception.  Of course it is possible to alter a cryptocurrency to the point of being regulated, but then it doesn't need to be "crypto" any more.  It is then a hassle to take all that crypto blockchain peer-to-peer stuff with it.  Normal bank computer fiat works 1000 times better for the same purpose.

So yes, maybe money needs/will be regulated.  But then it is useless to have crypto money.  That's my point.

Each time this discussion comes up, people tell me that "you cannot fight the state and law".  But my question is then: why would you want crypto currencies to be adopted in the first place ?  What do they have to offer over fiat ?  My answer is: "nothing but trouble".
What's your answer to the question "what have regulated and hence centralized, traced, cryptocurrencies to offer over regular fiat ?"

[generalizethis]

Both will and should happen.

[dinofelis]

Both will and should happen.

Indeed, probably the realistic solution is that states are simply overwhelmed by crypto, try to regulate some aspects of it, but have to give up under the pressure of their populations, a bit like the internet is half regulated, but still allows for much more free speech than centralized, censored media were "back then".  That said, money is a much much more ticklish affair for states than free speech.  They're essentially in it for the money, and free speech was only a nuisance  (even though free speech is sliding back to dark ages  in many "free" places nevertheless), while taking money is their core business.

[Papski]

Both will and should happen.

I agree.

You can't expect that people would accept only one idea.

[dinofelis]

Both will and should happen.

I agree.

You can't expect that people would accept only one idea.

The point is that if "crypto should work together with gov" then I don't see the point for crypto.  Anyone can explain to me what's the point of crypto, if it isn't to get back economic freedom states took away ?

Because if crypto is fully legal, then anything you can do with crypto, can just as well be done with fiat, right ?  So what's the point of the hassle of crypto over fiat then ?

[John Titor]

We should work with them if possible, and fight them only if necessary

[youdacapt]

I chose to cooperate. We can't forever be underground players, we need to work together in public, and the answer is partnered with gov. Sometimes we continue to discuss the complexities of regulation will emerge, and it would greatly hinder the development of our business in cryptocurrency (altcoin). But it was comparable to impact of facility management of public business.

If the government is comfortable at this point, we need a bit of challenges and obstacles. Our revenues will be slightly reduced, but gov will provide accommodation excess.

[Spoetnik]

I will read more of the feedback later but i seen the first two comments.

@BitcoinHodler
Agreed, that is pretty much what i have been trying to say for ages.
I would love to have a 100% lawless currency but i don't see it getting traction and getting adopted / used world wide.
We need to be realistic here guys.

So far i see 4 votes for law and 5 for Fight.
More than anything i wanted to bring up this issue because it's only going to be a growing matter we need to start thinking about.. the sooner the better.
For the sake of all your investments etc you all need to think long and hard what this is and where it's going.

I could post a huge list of incidents were law is encroaching on our crypto scene already guys.
Ripple was fined by FiNCEN and tax guidelines were issued years ago for example.
So this is not some fantastic crazy conspiracy we are talking about here.

In other words i am more concerned with the poll result and what you all think and to get you talking than anything.
Feel free to comment and vote guys.. i am really curious to see the overall stats on the POLL.

[Spoetnik]

If you voted Fight then why are you using Coinbase, Cryptsy, Poloniex and countless other Exchanges ?
You can't be losing the fight and say you are winning people.

Funny how i am the one saying work together all the time for years..
While i am one of the few who left Cryptsy when they added the user account AML shit.
I am not "verified" on any crypto crap service.

How many of you are while simultaneously chanting "NO Laws!" and "Free Market" ?

Put your money where your mouth is .

[dinofelis]

If you voted Fight then why are you using Coinbase, Cryptsy, Poloniex and countless other Exchanges ?

You shouldn't, of course.

You should obtain crypto by selling goods and services.  And use crypto to buy goods and services.  That was the idea, wasn't it ?  

Of course, with an anonymous coin, you may "speed up" your acquisition of crypto by having a one-time buy of some coins, if you want to get started on the "buying" side, and not on the "selling" side.  But there's in principle no point in having (centralized) exchanges.

With a traceable coin such as bitcoin, you must be outright crazy to buy it on an exchange...

[dinofelis]

I chose to cooperate. We can't forever be underground players, we need to work together in public, and the answer is partnered with gov. Sometimes we continue to discuss the complexities of regulation will emerge, and it would greatly hinder the development of our business in cryptocurrency (altcoin). But it was comparable to impact of facility management of public business.

But everybody in the "gov" camp is avoiding the question: if you want to be law-abiding, why are you in crypto currencies in the first place ? What good is a crypto currency that is fully law abiding have over fiat  What can you do with such a crypto that you can't with fiat ?


(because if you can't do it with fiat, it is because there's a rule against it for some reason... That rule should then sooner or later also apply to law-abiding crypto)

[dwgscale11]

The thing is, no one cares because the govt is a joke and seems to not give a shit anyways.  Look whats happening.. and nothing is being done. So why bother worrying about them?

[European Central Bank]

govt authorities will eventually crush alts unless they start to behave a little or remain under the radar.

swing your dicks around by all means with tough statements but 98% of users would run away crying if they came down hard on them.

the ico shit probably qualifies as securities fraud and will be hammered eventually.

[Spoetnik]

@European Central Bank
Agreed.

The warning signs are also ignored no matter how many times they are outlined.
Like what ?



And what i also have tried to point out is that the profiteers are at risk.
If say Monero was essentially blacklisted across any govt *compliant* exchanges / services we could see a massive price crash.
And who is going to dump first ? King risto and the other backers and their good buddy exchange staff friends.
Then the public will hear.. oh we have "Network Problems" as they fumble over themselves to dump ASAP.

[dinofelis]

If say Monero was essentially blacklisted across any govt *compliant* exchanges / services we could see a massive price crash.

True crypto shouldn't even be on exchanges in the first place.

You can measure the "true value" of a crypto when it would be absent from any exchange.  Because that "true value" would be the Fisher's formula sustained price of its usage as a currency, where it is used to buy and sell goods and services.   Close down all centralized exchanges, and you'd measure the true market cap of crypto: it would be infinitesimal.  Maybe bitcoin would reach $10, if it even did.  Monero would be quite below the $1 line.  But it is their true "currency" value.

All the rest of the current market cap is greater-fool game.

[dinofelis]

And what i also have tried to point out is that the profiteers are at risk.

That would be the best thing that could happen to crypto.  I hope that the Chinese government confiscates all crypto on the Chinese exchanges.  That would put an end to this greater-fool game, and make crypto grassroots again.