eBay / Paypal / Bitcoin Scam!!

[lawnshark]

Hi everyone

I have recently made the mistake of selling Bitcoin on eBay UK and being paid with Paypal.

I sold BTC - got paid by Paypal; the buyers did chargebacks / said they didn't buy it. Paypal terms and conditions protects them from that & I am now left with no Bitcoin and no money.

Obviously, this is completely wrong. I'm in the UK - what do I do, just take the buyer to the small claims court? Any info that could help me would be very much appreciated.

I love Bitcoin! And I now absolutely hate Paypal. Bitcoin is way better than Paypal - and they probably know it right? I was even reading someone saying it's Paypal insiders stealing the coins in this way. How have they been getting away with this - It's been going on for years.

I've gone to the financial Ombudsman, but I worry they are powerless against Paypal anyway.
So I need to take the buyers to court, as they had their security compromised and that's not something I should be paying for..

I read the article in the Guardian newpaper in 2014 - exactly the same thing has happened to me now in 2017 - How are they getting away with this? The sale of Bitcoins should be banned on eBay / somethings got to change. I sent the coins, I have the digital tracking that confirms the item sold is in the wallet address provided by the buyers. Now someone had the coins and the buyer has their money back.

Is there a way to look into the wallet address used? I've tried to do it a bit, mostly I can't see anything, one of the wallets has put the coins into a Bitcoin Doubler. Do they even work?! Isn't he just going to lose them that way? Is he trying to wash the coins? Please! Someone help me; these coins are mine and my girlfriend's savings from last year and we worked super hard for that money!

Anyone got any tips?

Thanks a lot

[achow101]

Unfortunately Bitcoin transactions are irreversible. There isn't really anything that you can do to get your Bitcoin back. You could attempt to contact Paypal and explain that the Bitcoin was sent and that the buyer had scammed you. You can prove that you sent the Bitcoin; you have the address that the buyer sent you and the transaction id of the transaction itself. If your wallet allows you to sign transactions (i.e. its a desktop wallet) then you can prove that you were the person who sent the Bitcoin. Of course, this requires that the people at Paypal know about Bitcoin and how it works, so this may not work.

[lawnshark]

Yeah, that hasn't worked out.
I've proved I send the Bitcoin. Thats not in dispute. They do not however, cover seller protection for "intangible" items.

So; I need to take the buyer to court - as they failed to secure their account / are fraudulent.

[miningdude]

Yeah, that hasn't worked out.
I've proved I send the Bitcoin. Thats not in dispute. They do not however, cover seller protection for "intangible" items.

So; I need to take the buyer to court - as they failed to secure their account / are fraudulent.

How much is transaction worth?

Also it might be carded/or someone may be using stolen cards if so(just move on) you can't get your money back, but yeah you can report it to the local police department and tell it was a fraud, and AGAIN never deal with paypal or eBay about bitcoins, they care only about $$$. 

[lawnshark]

£2,000

Majority of which is in two transactions of 1BTC each + 2 smaller transactions

[jackg]

£2,000

Majority of which is in two transactions of 1BTC each + 2 smaller transactions

You'll probably have to submit that to your local police sation or you could probably report it online if it's the UK (based on the currency). You may also first have to send it to the ombudsmann that regulates those sites who may redirect you to the courts.
Otherwise, you'll just have to move on.

[lawnshark]

£2,000

Majority of which is in two transactions of 1BTC each + 2 smaller transactions

You'll probably have to submit that to your local police sation or you could probably report it online if it's the UK (based on the currency). You may also first have to send it to the ombudsmann that regulates those sites who may redirect you to the courts.
Otherwise, you'll just have to move on.

Yes, UK here.

In my experience the police are actually less than useless regarding previous crimes I've reported. I'd imagine with Bitcoin they'd be even worse.
I've got someone who knows what they are doing looking into it. I'm really looking for legal advice regarding sue-ing the fraudulent buyers... The way I see it - hacked or not, that's not something I should be paying for.

[philipma1957]

I am sorry for your loss.

I will point some coin at ck-solo pool

If it hits I will send you some coin.


Don't use paypal

[miningdude]

I am sorry for your loss.

I will point some coin at ck-solo pool

If it hits I will send you some coin.

halp meh too

[jackg]

£2,000

Majority of which is in two transactions of 1BTC each + 2 smaller transactions

You'll probably have to submit that to your local police sation or you could probably report it online if it's the UK (based on the currency). You may also first have to send it to the ombudsmann that regulates those sites who may redirect you to the courts.
Otherwise, you'll just have to move on.

Yes, UK here.

In my experience the police are actually less than useless regarding previous crimes I've reported. I'd imagine with Bitcoin they'd be even worse.
I've got someone who knows what they are doing looking into it. I'm really looking for legal advice regarding sue-ing the fraudulent buyers... The way I see it - hacked or not, that's not something I should be paying for.

Whatever you do, it normally has to go through the police/an ombudsmann to get a settlement. They probably won't do much for £2000 because it's probably not worth them doing anything.
You should probably try to find them yourself as if you have enough information and know who took it then tey aren't going to decline your report as much if you've done the work for them already.
Although, it is quite likely you'll never see that money again...

What's the address, it coul be traceable? Do you have any other information that may be useful. How did you communicate the deal? If it's through emails then you can normally decode the IP address and find the owner from the email headers.

[miningdude]

£2,000

Majority of which is in two transactions of 1BTC each + 2 smaller transactions

You'll probably have to submit that to your local police sation or you could probably report it online if it's the UK (based on the currency). You may also first have to send it to the ombudsmann that regulates those sites who may redirect you to the courts.
Otherwise, you'll just have to move on.

Yes, UK here.

In my experience the police are actually less than useless regarding previous crimes I've reported. I'd imagine with Bitcoin they'd be even worse.
I've got someone who knows what they are doing looking into it. I'm really looking for legal advice regarding sue-ing the fraudulent buyers... The way I see it - hacked or not, that's not something I should be paying for.

Whatever you do, it normally has to go through the police/an ombudsmann to get a settlement. They probably won't do much for £2000 because it's probably not worth them doing anything.
You should probably try to find them yourself as if you have enough information and know who took it then tey aren't going to decline your report as much if you've done the work for them already.
Although, it is quite likely you'll never see that money again...

What's the address, it coul be traceable? Do you have any other information that may be useful. How did you communicate the deal? If it's through emails then you can normally decode the IP address and find the owner from the email headers.

Lol he can just move on 2k£ isn't much and not worth to waste my time in.

[philipma1957]

£2,000

Majority of which is in two transactions of 1BTC each + 2 smaller transactions

You'll probably have to submit that to your local police sation or you could probably report it online if it's the UK (based on the currency). You may also first have to send it to the ombudsmann that regulates those sites who may redirect you to the courts.
Otherwise, you'll just have to move on.

Yes, UK here.

In my experience the police are actually less than useless regarding previous crimes I've reported. I'd imagine with Bitcoin they'd be even worse.
I've got someone who knows what they are doing looking into it. I'm really looking for legal advice regarding sue-ing the fraudulent buyers... The way I see it - hacked or not, that's not something I should be paying for.

Whatever you do, it normally has to go through the police/an ombudsmann to get a settlement. They probably won't do much for £2000 because it's probably not worth them doing anything.
You should probably try to find them yourself as if you have enough information and know who took it then tey aren't going to decline your report as much if you've done the work for them already.
Although, it is quite likely you'll never see that money again...

I pointed .01 btc at a rental from nice hash.    That is about a 1 in 1250 chance at a block.

His chance of getting his btc back is about 1 in 1250.  I have never heard of anyone any where winning a btc sale case against PayPal.

So that is a zero chance.
He would need to find the criminals and force payment from them.  Good luck.

At this point he is not sure if the eBay buyer is a victim.  Or if the eBay buy is the thief.
So if he found the eBay buy and spoke with him in person or if he got the law to talk to them. Good luck on figuring out what happened.
If the eBay buyer truly was a victim he has zero recourse against him or eBay or PayPal.
He next option would be find out how the eBay account was hacked track the hacker down and get funds there.
Not much better then a zero chance.

Like I said his best shot is I hit the block with the rental.

[jackg]

£2,000

Majority of which is in two transactions of 1BTC each + 2 smaller transactions

You'll probably have to submit that to your local police sation or you could probably report it online if it's the UK (based on the currency). You may also first have to send it to the ombudsmann that regulates those sites who may redirect you to the courts.
Otherwise, you'll just have to move on.

Yes, UK here.

In my experience the police are actually less than useless regarding previous crimes I've reported. I'd imagine with Bitcoin they'd be even worse.
I've got someone who knows what they are doing looking into it. I'm really looking for legal advice regarding sue-ing the fraudulent buyers... The way I see it - hacked or not, that's not something I should be paying for.

Whatever you do, it normally has to go through the police/an ombudsmann to get a settlement. They probably won't do much for £2000 because it's probably not worth them doing anything.
You should probably try to find them yourself as if you have enough information and know who took it then tey aren't going to decline your report as much if you've done the work for them already.
Although, it is quite likely you'll never see that money again...

What's the address, it coul be traceable? Do you have any other information that may be useful. How did you communicate the deal? If it's through emails then you can normally decode the IP address and find the owner from the email headers.

Lol he can just move on 2k£ isn't much and not worth to waste my time in.

I meant it would not be viewed a profitible for them to investigate it as it will probably quite a complex thing to resolve. (Bitcoin is not really a well known thing).

£2,000

Majority of which is in two transactions of 1BTC each + 2 smaller transactions

You'll probably have to submit that to your local police sation or you could probably report it online if it's the UK (based on the currency). You may also first have to send it to the ombudsmann that regulates those sites who may redirect you to the courts.
Otherwise, you'll just have to move on.

Yes, UK here.

In my experience the police are actually less than useless regarding previous crimes I've reported. I'd imagine with Bitcoin they'd be even worse.
I've got someone who knows what they are doing looking into it. I'm really looking for legal advice regarding sue-ing the fraudulent buyers... The way I see it - hacked or not, that's not something I should be paying for.

Whatever you do, it normally has to go through the police/an ombudsmann to get a settlement. They probably won't do much for £2000 because it's probably not worth them doing anything.
You should probably try to find them yourself as if you have enough information and know who took it then tey aren't going to decline your report as much if you've done the work for them already.
Although, it is quite likely you'll never see that money again...

I pointed .01 btc at a rental from nice hash.    That is about a 1 in 1250 chance at a block.

His chance of getting his btc back is about 1 in 1250.  I have never heard of anyone any where winning a btc sale case against PayPal.

So that is a zero chance.
He would need to find the criminals and force payment from them.  Good luck.

At this point he is not sure if the eBay buyer is a victim.  Or if the eBay buy is the thief.
So if he found the eBay buy and spoke with him in person or if he got the law to talk to them. Good luck on figuring out what happened.
If the eBay buyer truly was a victim he has zero recourse against him or eBay or PayPal.
He next option would be find out how the eBay account was hacked track the hacker down and get funds there.
Not much better then a zero chance.

Like I said his best shot is I hit the block with the rental.

Yeah. coupled with the fact that you probably will be unable to get the coins back. It is also against the terms and conditions of paypal to sell them in the first place meaning that they won't do anything about this (the law still could though).

[ImHash]

I fixed the title for you, how did you get those bitcoins? from your first post looks like you already familiar with bitcoin then how come you ended up selling them in eBay? that is the last place for you to sell, you can always register in a trusted exchange or localbitcoins.com even if you are trying to sell illegally acquired bitcoins you could still sell them normally after mixing them.
Paypal isn't a currency but a private company with so many flaws and yes they are against bitcoin because the system is their competition.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I am sorry for your loss.

I will point some coin at ck-solo pool

If it hits I will send you some coin.

halp meh too

Start your own thread, you turd.

OP, the only solution is your local law enforcement and the court system in your country.  I highly doubt anyone on this forum is going to be able to help you.  That's the problem with PayPal and bitcoin---they don't mix when your counterparty is untrusted.

[HarringtonStark]

It's not EBay or PayPal to blame. It's the buyers. This has happened many times in the past. Fraudsters have been doing this. You learned your lesson. Only trade with a person you know very well. I would suggest you now only buy/sell bitcoins on more secure sites like Coinbase and Local Bitcoins. I successfully convert bitcoins to PayPal balance with Coin base every time. I avoided being scammed because I do some research and background checks first before going into trading.

[franky1]

the only way to prove the "buyer" was the buyer. is if you have a picture of the buyer holding a piece of paper saying something related to the sale.

otherwise the account owner can just say he was not physically the "buyer". and someone stole his paypal credentials.
though advice above is not 'official' it atleast can be used as some form of proof of the human you were trading with

you can however try to get paypal to look at the geo location metadata of the paypal transaction and compare it to other paypal transactions the "buyer" done prior to the scam and after the scam.

if the geolocation data matches then obviously it was the real owner of the paypal account.
but you still should have done some due diligence and made sure who you were trading with was not just a username someone hacked.

[philipma1957]

the only way to prove the "buyer" was the buyer. is if you have a picture of the buyer holding a piece of paper saying something related to the sale.

otherwise the account owner can just say he was not physically the "buyer". and someone stole his paypal credentials.
though advice above is not 'official' it atleast can be used as some form of proof of the human you were trading with

you can however try to get paypal to look at the geo location metadata of the paypal transaction and compare it to other paypal transactions the "buyer" done prior to the scam and after the scam.

if the geolocation data matches then obviously it was the real owner of the paypal account.
but you still should have done some due diligence and made sure who you were trading with was not just a username someone hacked.

that is why he won't get any satisfaction  by legal means.  or for that matter illegal means as his chances of actually catching the thief  is slim to none.
  I was a power seller with eBay with thousands of transaction over a 14 year time period 2003 to 2017.  I no longer sell on eBay.  The seller has no protection in many cases.  I have had buyers first file no item delivered then when they lost the case file empty box then when they lost that file stolen cc. In my case with this seller I got protection because I followed tracking and signature rules.  Took 38 days to win but it was a physical item.  For anyone to think that selling on eBay is worth it I feel sorry for them.


meanwhile here is the op's best shot at his coin

http://solo.ckpool.org/users/1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53Vbtje

[Vaskiy]

Once after receiving the payment through paypal you could have withdrawn it to the bank account. PayPal stands on their terms and conditions. You just raise a ticket on the concerned difficulty felt. They might help you with a solution to make things clear. Because Bitcoin or eBay cannot help you. eBay just lists the traders, its our responsibility to have trade based on our convenience.

[Roboabhishek]

I feel bad for you but unfortunately you cannot reverse a bitcoin transaction which has made.
taking the scammer to court is bot a bad idea but i think you lack proof since bitcoin tx are untraceable..