Meshnets with weather balloons?

[herzmeister]

I guess most of us want a world free of corporate ISPs and mobile phone companies.

To build resilient and censorship-resistant network, "hackers" have been planning to shoot up satellites into the orbit for a while:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16367042

But maybe nodes can be also be placed into stratosphere in weather balloons, a couple of miles apart from each other, to build a resistant and effective meshnet. Would that be more feasible? Thoughts?

I mean what to do with all the new found wealth through Bitcoin anyway. 

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[Lethn]

Damnit they stole my ide-! I mean great job! Nice to see someone making a difference out there! *does shifty eyes and sneaks off*

[Ekaros]

I think routing will be very hard. And effective speeds aren't really that great.

[myrkul]

I think routing will be very hard.

No harder than regular IP routing.

And effective speeds aren't really that great.

Speed comes with better technology, which will come with time.

[Ekaros]

I think routing will be very hard.

No harder than regular IP routing.

And effective speeds aren't really that great.

Speed comes with better technology, which will come with time.

I doubt it will be constant setup. Ad-hoc networks have fairly large overhead. And I don't think there is any real backbones in meshnets...

[myrkul]

I think routing will be very hard.

No harder than regular IP routing.

And effective speeds aren't really that great.

Speed comes with better technology, which will come with time.

I doubt it will be constant setup. Ad-hoc networks have fairly large overhead. And I don't think there is any real backbones in meshnets...

Well, no, there's no backbone. That's kinda the point.

[Mike Christ]

An ISP owned by the public would be phenomenal against SOPA & CISPA rising from the dead over and over again.  As long as it worked at all, I'd be cool with it being a tad slow.  It may not be great for gaming, but at least no single person can be cut off from the rest.

If I can ensure my privacy then I'm all in on making this happen.

[Lethn]

I knew I'd find something on this, this looks very interesting: http://www.shareable.net/blog/afghans-build-open-source-internet-from-trash-0

[MysteryMiner]

Only problem might be longevity and stationarity of weather baloons. After few days or weeks the equipment will come down crashing to earth.

The wireless links are not hard to build. Either ordinary wireless devices with custom made antennas or professional grade radio links. The problem is getting reliable and neutral connection to remaining internet.

I think reliable and uncensored satellite service is best solution. Will not work for gaming but might be good for everything else.

[Snowfire]

A better bet is to embed node clients into common devices: cell phones, tablets, laptops, cable boxes, televisions, vending machines, refrigerators, automobiles, and so forth. At some point implementation would be feasible.

[myrkul]

A better bet is to embed node clients into common devices: cell phones, tablets, laptops, cable boxes, televisions, vending machines, refrigerators, automobiles, and so forth. At some point implementation would be feasible.

WiFi routers. I can "see" 8 from where I sit. It would take a very minor software tweak to turn them into a mesh for the entire city.

[Schleicher]

WiFi routers. I can "see" 8 from where I sit. It would take a very minor software tweak to turn them into a mesh for the entire city.

Yeah. Some people in Berlin (Germany) and elsewhere are trying this.
http://start.freifunk.net/

[nebulus]

Set it up and wait for the drones incoming...

[MysteryMiner]

A better bet is to embed node clients into common devices: cell phones, tablets, laptops, cable boxes, televisions, vending machines, refrigerators, automobiles, and so forth. At some point implementation would be feasible.

WiFi routers. I can "see" 8 from where I sit. It would take a very minor software tweak to turn them into a mesh for the entire city.

I agree. But sometimes the tweak is hard to do. Not all routers support DD-WRT or OpenWRT. Some of them support only basic versions due to very limited flash space. The antennas and channels must be tweaked too for better connectivity.

The problem with government action and internet killswitch is the common frequency used bu WiFi routers and possibility to ban and jam that frequency.

[myrkul]

A better bet is to embed node clients into common devices: cell phones, tablets, laptops, cable boxes, televisions, vending machines, refrigerators, automobiles, and so forth. At some point implementation would be feasible.

WiFi routers. I can "see" 8 from where I sit. It would take a very minor software tweak to turn them into a mesh for the entire city.

I agree. But sometimes the tweak is hard to do. Not all routers support DD-WRT or OpenWRT. Some of them support only basic versions due to very limited flash space. The antennas and channels must be tweaked too for better connectivity.

The problem with government action and internet killswitch is the common frequency used bu WiFi routers and possibility to ban and jam that frequency.

If they're going to do that, then they'd be better off just doing that, since killing the actual internet would fuck u so many things they need....

[Littleshop]

As someone who has worked with mesh technology...  You can not do what you are interested in doing legally or cheaply with existing technology.  I have assembled small mesh networks in city environments and you either need a really good density or just one shutdown will break the system.  Almost none of the gear works anywhere near as well as manufactures say it does. 

In cities nothing really works consistently on 2.4 ghz as there is too much interference and the distance is too short.  You might be able to use 900mhz or 3.6ghz but it would probably be in violation of rules to get the signal power needed to make it work in anything but a local level. 

What can work?  Neighborhood wide meshes as long as someone takes an active role in financing and keeping it up.  They need to provide gear to people and make sure it is well located and stays on.  If nobody keeps it up, it will not be reliable and people will turn it off because of that.   

Everything I wrote is from a USA point of view.  If you are in an area without a regulating government and can turn up the power, or go to the non us top channels (wifi 12-14), and have a low level of existing wifi users you might get some cool things to happen. 

[herzmeister]

google is listening 

http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/05/report-google-considering-internet-balloons-to-connect-sub-saharan-africa/

[Elwar]

I worked on military "mesh networks", otherwise known as ad-hoc wireless networks. We were working with stationary blimps to help with line of site issues in mountainous regions (in conjunction with UAVs). I only worked on simulations though. If you go to the border of Mexico (Fort Huachuca) and also out here in the Middle East you will see blimps up in the air...I am not sure if they are just for recon or if they also have routers in them.

[benjamindees]

As someone who has worked with mesh technology...  You can not do what you are interested in doing legally or cheaply with existing technology.  I have assembled small mesh networks in city environments and you either need a really good density or just one shutdown will break the system.  Almost none of the gear works anywhere near as well as manufactures say it does. 

There is a lot of really bad router firmware out there.  Even OpenWRT leaves a lot to be desired.  But the concept is sound, and wi-fi can be extremely resilient when built correctly.  You can't just buy something off-the-shelf and trust the manufacturers' claims without thorough testing, though.

The problem with government action and internet killswitch is the common frequency used bu WiFi routers and possibility to ban and jam that frequency.

There's no way to ban 2.4 ghz, since it's used by microwave ovens.  Even jamming it is somewhat difficult.

The problem is getting reliable and neutral connection to remaining internet.

Yes.  Did you see the thread on cjdns/Hyperboria?