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Author Topic: Will Bitcoin follow the same path?  (Read 1544 times)
Kakmakr
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February 23, 2017, 09:00:29 AM
#1

The Blockstream guys are pushing for technologies where transaction fees on nodes might end up like this,
http://fox40.com/2017/02/22/big-banks-rack-up-6-4-billion-in-atm-and-overdraft-fees/

The combined fees of these banks works out to $25 in fees annually for every adult American.  Roll Eyes This is definitely not the solution for third world countries, if we go that way.

The latest spam attacks are causing fee spikes and massive delays in transaction confirmations for people paying the recommended minimum fees. < I guess if everyone is paying the higher recommended fees, then nobody will jump the queue, because there are just that much space in every block >

So while Blockstream is waiting for consensus for SegWit and miners are profiting from these higher fees, the customer has to be satisfied with poor performance and high fees. ^hmmmmmm^

How many new adopters were faced with these challenges and decided to dump this technology, due to this situation?

Yes, the banks are raping us with high fees, but is Bitcoin doing anything better at the moment?

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February 23, 2017, 09:19:35 AM
#2

It may be difficult to change bank and it may be even more difficult to escape those fees if every bank does it, however escaping bitcoin fees is really, really easy. Cheesy
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February 23, 2017, 09:24:58 AM
#3

since the bitcoin core would accept up to 2MB in the future, but no plans on further at all, including major amounts of transactions, it is very likely to result a transaction fees comparable to banks.

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February 23, 2017, 10:05:50 AM
#4

Bitcoin is still better for me. Just my opinion.
But I think those spams that slows down the transactions should be fixed.
If this things gets more higher then there will more problem.
For now, I will be accepting those higher fees so that I will not be added to that traffic that is happening. If only that could be the solution so they can lessen it even for 1 percent a day then I will do it.

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February 23, 2017, 10:12:25 AM
#5

It's tough to say, really. The state of fees certainly needs to be resolved and fast otherwise it would seem we are headed that way.
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February 23, 2017, 10:52:48 AM
#6

The Blockstream guys are pushing for technologies where transaction fees on nodes might end up like this,
http://fox40.com/2017/02/22/big-banks-rack-up-6-4-billion-in-atm-and-overdraft-fees/

The combined fees of these banks works out to $25 in fees annually for every adult American.  Roll Eyes This is definitely not the solution for third world countries, if we go that way.

The latest spam attacks are causing fee spikes and massive delays in transaction confirmations for people paying the recommended minimum fees. < I guess if everyone is paying the higher recommended fees, then nobody will jump the queue, because there are just that much space in every block >

So while Blockstream is waiting for consensus for SegWit and miners are profiting from these higher fees, the customer has to be satisfied with poor performance and high fees. ^hmmmmmm^

How many new adopters were faced with these challenges and decided to dump this technology, due to this situation?

Yes, the banks are raping us with high fees, but is Bitcoin doing anything better at the moment?

Well you can just use the lower fees so you will not pay that much. Dont panic and be calm since your transfer will come to  your wallet whenever it appeared on the blockchain. Even if it unconfirmed it will still reach your wallet later on and it will not disappear. What we need today is patience since there are no consensus yet as to how to increase the blocksize in mining.

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February 23, 2017, 11:20:54 AM
#7

not sure. if bitcoin fees do not decrease in a short time, I worry people will think twice to send bitcoins even use it. however bitcoin system of course is better than banks, but high fees is a big issue either.
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February 23, 2017, 11:22:45 AM
#8

The Blockstream guys are pushing for technologies where transaction fees on nodes might end up like this,
http://fox40.com/2017/02/22/big-banks-rack-up-6-4-billion-in-atm-and-overdraft-fees/

The combined fees of these banks works out to $25 in fees annually for every adult American.  Roll Eyes This is definitely not the solution for third world countries, if we go that way.

The latest spam attacks are causing fee spikes and massive delays in transaction confirmations for people paying the recommended minimum fees. < I guess if everyone is paying the higher recommended fees, then nobody will jump the queue, because there are just that much space in every block >

So while Blockstream is waiting for consensus for SegWit and miners are profiting from these higher fees, the customer has to be satisfied with poor performance and high fees. ^hmmmmmm^

How many new adopters were faced with these challenges and decided to dump this technology, due to this situation?

Yes, the banks are raping us with high fees, but is Bitcoin doing anything better at the moment?

Well you can just use the lower fees so you will not pay that much. Dont panic and be calm since your transfer will come to  your wallet whenever it appeared on the blockchain. Even if it unconfirmed it will still reach your wallet later on and it will not disappear. What we need today is patience since there are no consensus yet as to how to increase the blocksize in mining.

Tell that to a customer that for example just bought a 64" LED TV and he cannot take possession of the TV until the transaction has been confirmed on the Blockchain. Some of these transactions are currently delayed with almost 24 hours to 48 hours.

We will not penetrate mainstream adoption with competitors blowing in our neck with near instant transactions. If I walk into a shop, and I pull out my credit card or debit card, I get near instant transaction verification and relative cheap transaction fees. < Some banks even give X amount of free transactions >

Your mindset will not lead to mainstream adoption in a world where people want instant gratification. ^hmmmmmm^

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February 23, 2017, 11:46:57 AM
#9

Credit card companies charge consumer late fees for overdue bills, but importantly also charge merchants and others who accept credit cards for each transaction. First, credit cards charge a base fee that is the same for all regardless of the payments processor used, and is made up primarily of the interchange fee and the assessment fee. Interchange is the fee paid to banks or other financial companies that issue branded credit cards, and assessment is the fee paid to the credit card company itself

So i don't think so its gonna take that path...
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February 23, 2017, 12:01:41 PM
#10

It may be difficult to change bank and it may be even more difficult to escape those fees if every bank does it, however escaping bitcoin fees is really, really easy. Cheesy
Yes it is easy but due to decentralization of bitcoin nodes it is hard to make all of them upgrade to new wallets so that current problem regarding block size can be corrected with segwit activation. Only 25% of bitcoin nodes have upgraded till now.  Angry

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February 23, 2017, 12:24:17 PM
#11

Old nodes continue to work if segwit is activated. Some mining pool operators are currently blocking segwit.
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February 23, 2017, 03:35:27 PM
#12

I think the idea behind the Lightning Network is for Lightning nodes to compete to transfer your payment for you, this will most likely be much

lower than a full transaction fee on the Blockchain. I like the introduction of a competitive environment to decrease fees, but I am not completely

sold on the idea that collusion between Lightning node operators will not happen. The transactions will be much faster, so that will fix the speed

problems.  Grin

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February 23, 2017, 04:22:19 PM
#13

Yes, the banks are raping us with high fees, but is Bitcoin doing anything better at the moment?
Imo bitcoin is still doing better in terms of the fees, as long as the recommended fees doesn't go up like 1000+satoshi per byte(for now the recommended is at 180sat/byte). I also think it won't go the same path as you can put any amount of fees you want.

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February 23, 2017, 04:45:49 PM
#14

It may be difficult to change bank and it may be even more difficult to escape those fees if every bank does it, however escaping bitcoin fees is really, really easy. Cheesy
Yes it is easy but due to decentralization of bitcoin nodes it is hard to make all of them upgrade to new wallets so that current problem regarding block size can be corrected with segwit activation. Only 25% of bitcoin nodes have upgraded till now.  Angry

No dude, you don't have to use bitcoin, just use some other coin and problem solved...
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February 23, 2017, 05:14:16 PM
#15

It may be difficult to change bank and it may be even more difficult to escape those fees if every bank does it, however escaping bitcoin fees is really, really easy. Cheesy
Yes it is easy but due to decentralization of bitcoin nodes it is hard to make all of them upgrade to new wallets so that current problem regarding block size can be corrected with segwit activation. Only 25% of bitcoin nodes have upgraded till now.  Angry

No dude, you don't have to use bitcoin, just use some other coin and problem solved...

That is if the service is accepting that coin.  Not all shop is accepting altcoins,  like for example if I want to convert my BTC to fiat currency, do I have to use that altcoin?  Lol no, using altcoin is not a solution specially if we are to transact to  a pure bitcoin shop.

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February 23, 2017, 05:52:40 PM
#16

It may be difficult to change bank and it may be even more difficult to escape those fees if every bank does it, however escaping bitcoin fees is really, really easy. Cheesy
Yes it is easy but due to decentralization of bitcoin nodes it is hard to make all of them upgrade to new wallets so that current problem regarding block size can be corrected with segwit activation. Only 25% of bitcoin nodes have upgraded till now.  Angry

No dude, you don't have to use bitcoin, just use some other coin and problem solved...

That is if the service is accepting that coin.  Not all shop is accepting altcoins,  like for example if I want to convert my BTC to fiat currency, do I have to use that altcoin?  Lol no, using altcoin is not a solution specially if we are to transact to  a pure bitcoin shop.

AlphaBay uses Monero...

Unless it's a darknet market you don't need bitcoin for online shopping.

There are a lot of exchanges with fiat/altcoin markets.
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February 23, 2017, 08:26:48 PM
#17

Number of new adopters that have probably just dropped bitcoin are probably pretty high, based on the pure fact that they're probably buying cheaper items with bitcoin and the average transaction fee is disgusting for a lower priced transaction, you're just going to spend a majority on fees.

Personally, I think this will all level out at some point but right now this is an insane issue that has to be addressed by the community in order to drive the average fee down. Because as people conform to a higher fee, people go higher and higher to get theirs confirmed faster and faster. This follows an exponential process.

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February 24, 2017, 05:18:09 AM
#18

Number of new adopters that have probably just dropped bitcoin are probably pretty high, based on the pure fact that they're probably buying cheaper items with bitcoin and the average transaction fee is disgusting for a lower priced transaction, you're just going to spend a majority on fees.

Personally, I think this will all level out at some point but right now this is an insane issue that has to be addressed by the community in order to drive the average fee down. Because as people conform to a higher fee, people go higher and higher to get theirs confirmed faster and faster. This follows an exponential process.

The irony is, miners are getting used to milking the users of this network now. They might not be the people behind these spam attacks, but they are definitely the only people smiling about this. Once people get a taste for extra money for whatever reason, they will want to retain that extra money at all cost. < So you might get miners that starts funding this in future, to bump transaction fees >

It is a cycle that needs to stop, and I agree with you on that.

Herbert2020
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February 24, 2017, 05:46:07 AM
#19

the thing nobody sees right now, is that everybody involved with bitcoin will see the consequences of this. the spam attack and the ever rising fees plus no change whatsoever in blocksize debate is harming the bitcoin users right now and miners are happy about the extreme amount of profit they get out of this right now. but it won't last forever.
these actions are harming bitcoin and they don't realize this.
i don't like saying this and it will be a long way down the line but people will eventually start thinking about alternatives to bitcoin.

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TimoY
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February 24, 2017, 07:16:11 AM
#20

Bitcoin fees are still fairly reasonable considering the amount of money it will cost to store and verify that transaction on 6000+ nodes for all eternity. Bitcoin was never meant to be cheap, it was meant to be secure and un-censorable. Cheap transactions can't happen in a blockchain because a blockchain always sacrifices efficiency for security. They can only happen in non-permanent ledgers layered on top of blockchains.

Bank fees on the other hand, are in no relation to the costs that a transaction incurs on the bank.
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