BFL

[HUSTLER]

Not trying to start a debate. Just want to know what the community thinks.

[BTC Books]

Not trying to start a debate. Just want to know what the community thinks.

I think they're in so far over their heads that it's barely describable.

As to whether or not it's an actual scam, it could go either way.  But a lot of people have already lost a ton of money - present and future value, both.

[Peleus]

Define scam.

[HUSTLER]

They don't deliver and take off with our money.

[Peleus]

Then no, they aren't a scam.

Are they grossly incompetent, be unable to deliver ASICs for a long time yet, be disgustingly different from the original specs and eventually go bankrupt? Most likely.

I think they are trying, they are just in way over their head, and have no where near the professionalism or experience to get themselves out of it.

[logicbomb666]

Then no, they aren't a scam.

Are they grossly incompetent, be unable to deliver ASICs for a long time yet, be disgustingly different from the original specs and eventually go bankrupt? Most likely.

I think they are trying, they are just in way over their head, and have no where near the professionalism or experience to get themselves out of it.

This is my thought as well. 

I don't think BFL is conducting some huge elaborate ruse to keep getting people to pre-order products that will never ship.  I do think they are developing something, and that something will be shipped eventually.  They are probably working to the best of their ability, it just so happens the best of their ability is no where near what is needed to complete the task they have created for themselves.

[Logik]

It's wrong to call BFL a scam but in the strict definition of the word 'fraud' it's easy to prove that BFL is guilty of that. The word basically means to deceive, where the deceit leads to financial gain.

So follow this logic: they have, we assume, manufacturing experience. So they know roughly the limitations of product design and development. That's the first point. The second point is that they have repeatedly said, in public, that they will ship 1-2 days after receiving the actual ASIC chips themselves, despite never having actually assembled even a single prototype.

The reason that's fraud:

- They know that shipping a product the day after assembling the first ever prototype is definitely impossible to do (deceit)
- Saying that it is possible directly leads to fewer people pulling their pre-orders (financial gain)

Simple as that.

[tysat]

Because we need another thread about BFL, right guys?

[HUSTLER]

I only wanted to see poll results.

[cryptoanarchist]

Of course they are. They've already defaulted on their promises over and over again.

[Ekaros]

Scam not really. Frauds, maybe or already are. Totally incompetent yes.

[Insu Dra]

They've already defaulted on their promises over and over again.

This does not make it a scam, just a failure ...

[Hei_]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uez9AVfDQIg

[misterbigg]

Definitely a scam because of the bet and the shady way Luke-Jr got his ASIC "shipped" right before the bet deadline.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Definitely a scam because of the bet and the shady way Luke-Jr got his ASIC "shipped" right before the bet deadline.

And the proof is the post an hour plus after the deadline, of which coinjedi was kind enough to return all bets due to the bet being unambiguous, thus everybody enjoined the first ever virtual three-prong attack. Time for a smoke, then dinner at Meze Grill.

[Zooey]

I give them credit for the long way they have come since Josh first unveiled BFL's ASIC technology: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4SnUObMd0o

[Bitcoin Oz]

I think the entire thing is an elaborate troll.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I think the entire thing is an elaborate troll.

A la Robin Williams: ... And we'll put a flag next to the hole to give them hope. But will put  sandpits and a lake next to it to fuck with them some more.

[Razick]

I think they are legit, but just horribly over their heads I asked for a refund yesterday and got it today, no questions asked.

That being said, I am starting to suspect that there is a major screw-up and that, because they developed the product with pre order funds, they are in a dire position:

If the first batch is screwed up, then they may not be able to keep enough cash on hand to fix the design, order a new batch and handle refunds.

I'm concerned about a default.