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Author Topic: "Stabilizing" the market  (Read 1082 times)
mjoz
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June 16, 2011, 08:28:54 PM
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It seems like there have been some artificial attempts to stabilize the market through the use of huge asks in order to drum up vendor adoption of bitcoin.  I don't see how this can work, all you are going to do is scare away all the buyers.  People buy bitcoins because they expect them to gain value, if you lock them to the dollar you might as well just keep your dollars.
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BitterTea
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June 16, 2011, 08:34:02 PM
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This is pure speculation. It could be that someone just wants to sell off a large number of coins, or that people are skittish after the weekend's bounce.
mjoz
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June 16, 2011, 08:36:24 PM
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This is pure speculation. It could be that someone just wants to sell off a large number of coins, or that people are skittish after the weekend's bounce.

It's not speculation.  If someone wanted to sell 1300 coins they could easily break them up and sell them a whole lot faster.  Coins were placed on the market at 20 btc to stop the price from going higher in attempt to stabilize.  What happened?  Volumes dropped and now the price is sinking.
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June 16, 2011, 08:47:00 PM
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Coins were placed on the market at 20 btc to stop the price from going higher in attempt to stabilize.

If you have evidence that this is true, I'd like to see it. Otherwise, you are speculating.
mjoz
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June 16, 2011, 09:41:08 PM
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Coins were placed on the market at 20 btc to stop the price from going higher in attempt to stabilize.

If you have evidence that this is true, I'd like to see it. Otherwise, you are speculating.

Your evidence can be found in the charts and market dept.  My only speculation is that someone planting an ask for 1300 bitcoins on the market is probably not an idiot and knows that it isn't going to sell with volumes as low as they are, people will place their asks lower than his and that market will stall, which is exactly what happened.  And now a 1300 btc roadblock becomes a 5000 btc roadblock within a couple of days. 

And surprise, surprise the buyers dry up and the market heads south.
cynikal
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June 16, 2011, 10:06:19 PM
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what i don't get is why you don't consider people wanting to buy bitcoins to actually use them as a currency and spend them ?
mjoz
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June 16, 2011, 10:11:15 PM
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what i don't get is why you don't consider people wanting to buy bitcoins to actually use them as a currency and spend them ?

Seriously? You think 200 little vendors is going to drive the current market cap?
NoFeeMining
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June 16, 2011, 10:13:43 PM
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You dont need to lock it to anything

Easy to use NO FEE mining pool
http://www.NoFeeMining.com/
mjoz
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June 16, 2011, 10:15:51 PM
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You dont need to lock it to anything

Exactly people need to stop trying to "fix" the market.  It either lives or it dies, if you try to fix the market, it dies.
dutt
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June 16, 2011, 10:21:52 PM
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Yea. ZOMG ITS GOING TO THE MOON. OMG ITS CRASHING. OMG STAGNATION...
People need to relax. Start doing business in bitcoin other than trading and the price will more and more stabilize  Cool

mjoz
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June 16, 2011, 10:25:34 PM
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Yea. ZOMG ITS GOING TO THE MOON. OMG ITS CRASHING. OMG STAGNATION...
People need to relax. Start doing business in bitcoin other than trading and the price will more and more stabilize  Cool

I don't believe I OMG'ed once.  Smiley
BitterTea
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June 16, 2011, 10:39:05 PM
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what i don't get is why you don't consider people wanting to buy bitcoins to actually use them as a currency and spend them ?

Seriously? You think 200 little vendors is going to drive the current market cap?

It's not the vendors... look...

The supply of bitcoins is fixed. Some portion of all the coins created up until this point are for sale.

The demand for bitcoins is growing. With all of the recent news about Bitcoin, many new people have been finding out about it and wanting to buy bitcoins.

Steady supply + increasing demand = rise in prices

Exactly people need to stop trying to "fix" the market.  It either lives or it dies, if you try to fix the market, it dies.

What you don't get is that even an individual trying to "fix" the market (a claim for which you have shown no evidence) is part of the market.
mjoz
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June 16, 2011, 10:49:01 PM
 #13

<snip>

It's not the vendors... look...

We can agree on this.

Quote
The supply of bitcoins is fixed. Some portion of all the coins created up until this point are for sale.

The demand for bitcoins is growing. With all of the recent news about Bitcoin, many new people have been finding out about it and wanting to buy bitcoins.

Steady supply + increasing demand = rise in prices

If as ceiling ask is place by an earlier adopter there are no "rising prices" so what you get is:

Steady supply + stagnant demand = stagnant or falling prices

No one is digging through that 5000 btc blocking ask any time soon.  You keep dwelling on this evidence and I keep pointing you to the charts.
vvagner
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June 16, 2011, 10:57:31 PM
 #14

BTC is very vulnerable right now to this sort of thing. Right now the market is mostly speculators and early adopters, most of which are trying to cash out.
BitterTea
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June 16, 2011, 11:03:14 PM
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BTC is very vulnerable right now to this sort of thing. Right now the market is mostly speculators and early adopters, most of which are trying to cash out.

There is no evidence that this assertion is true.
vvagner
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June 16, 2011, 11:08:44 PM
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BTC is very vulnerable right now to this sort of thing. Right now the market is mostly speculators and early adopters, most of which are trying to cash out.

There is no evidence that this assertion is true.
Absolutely. It's still a likely scenario.
Auriga
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June 18, 2011, 02:32:58 AM
 #17

The bitcoin market is actually less manipulated than the stock or commodity markets.

In the bitcoin market, there is no margin, no naked short selling and no options.  Anyone can trade it all around the clock, so there is no time where only some traders in some locations can trade and so move the market a lot on low volume.

To see a manipulated market, look over the silver market descriptions at Turd Ferguson's trading blog at:
http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/

In a manipulated market you'll see flash crashes, usually at low volume times.  You'll see margin requirements being changed arbitrarily with no consistent reason.

The reason the bitcoin market is fluctuating wildly is because of the nature of bitcoin.  If bitcoin succeeds, it will trade at more than a thousand, if it fails, it will trade at zero.  Each monthly, on average, its value has roughly doubled.  There is no way a currency with these characteristics can be stable.  The only way bitcoin could ever stabilize is if a majority of people use bitcoin, or some related electronic coin, in their daily lives.
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