price at all time high while utility at all time low

[cryp24x]

I fully agree, the high fees will bite Bitcoin in the ass sometime. The sad thing is that this could've been avoided easily.

Quick confirmation times and low fees should be top priority imo.

Precisely but I don't know why greed and personal gains has been prioritized to cause the down fall of Bitcoin. If the core developers and miners had the common good of the community at heart I don't think this would be happening.

Humans are vulnerable to greed.  If one pool of miner offers a confirmation service with low tx fee, just like what viabtc is doing (though I hope they up the hourly transaction cap limit for tx accelerator)  I am sure this miner that are high fee hunters will be forced to reduce their tx fee charge.  But it seems miners are in a consensus to up their requirement for tx fee confirmation.

You don't think that viabtc operates out of good will This is a self-promotion tactic, costing them almost nothing. Every miner operates greedily, you just don't always see their end goal. Like in this case, they are trying to push big blocks because the businesses they are invested in win from on-chain scaling. That's it.

It never leave my thought that when some business entity is doing something good, there is always a catch.  the last time I used their accelerator, they have this pop up that explains about their agenda.  I am not that tech savvy or knowledgeable on what is good for the Bitcoin economy, I just want to use the service in peace and pay the minimum possible fee without any discomfort of waiting too long

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[Dudeperfect]

I think the price would rise by further 20% to 30% if they take efforts for reducing high fees and the confirmation time. No one likes to wait to get their transaction confirmed but at the same time paying high fees is not a good option to go with (especially when we have lot more strangers to reach). I would say if we are finding any concrete solution on this issue then it will have long-term positive impact on the bitcoin.

yes that proble is needed to be solve without increasing the fee. people want the transaction to be conform and specially those people who are using bitcoin in their local shops because they cannot wait for a long time in the shops for the conformation.

Exactly, I would never imagine myself waiting in a bitcoin ATM for 24 hours to wait for the transaction to get confirmed and the machine dispenses the cash. I am still worried about using bitcoins for local shops (there are not a single merchant in my town but still), it would create huge mess IMO.

[nyanhtet]

Sure. Look like bull trap and bubble. Hope ppl escape. 

[alani123]

This is something joked about by anti-bitcoin shills but also a harsh reality. Bitcoin (on its own) can't be a currency helping the poor and unbanked and a highly traded commodity at the same time. The notion that mass adoption by developing countries would usher bitcoin to a higher price is a fallacy IMO.

[jonald_fyookball]

  Bitcoin (on its own) can't be a currency helping the poor and unbanked and a highly traded commodity at the same time. 

Why do you feel that these 2 things are mutually exclusive?

[cryp24x]

I think the price would rise by further 20% to 30% if they take efforts for reducing high fees and the confirmation time. No one likes to wait to get their transaction confirmed but at the same time paying high fees is not a good option to go with (especially when we have lot more strangers to reach). I would say if we are finding any concrete solution on this issue then it will have long-term positive impact on the bitcoin.

yes that proble is needed to be solve without increasing the fee. people want the transaction to be conform and specially those people who are using bitcoin in their local shops because they cannot wait for a long time in the shops for the conformation.

Exactly, I would never imagine myself waiting in a bitcoin ATM for 24 hours to wait for the transaction to get confirmed and the machine dispenses the cash. I am still worried about using bitcoins for local shops (there are not a single merchant in my town but still), it would create huge mess IMO.

I wonder if this scenario is real.  Honestly i have not use a Bitcoin ATM machine, so i do not have an idea if this kind of scenario is possible.  If it is, I think i would go nuts waiting in an ATM that will dispense my withdrawal after 24 hours LOL.  Who wouldn't?

[xuan87]

It is really sad, but it is true, more and more people are complaining the increasing transaction fee and the long confirmation time has been a classic problem which no solution until now, the developer need to do something about this before bitcoin user moved to another coin or stop using it, if this problems can be solved we will see more shop adopting bitcoin

[squatz1]

It's kind of sad to see such an issue arise where the majority of bitcoins volume is not from people that want to adopt it, it's from people that want to buy/sell on the daily and make money from it. This could have never been predicted in the least.

If confirmation times and fees made any difference, then people would choose one of the many alt coins available.

Block Space should be Expensive. And Fees should go to Miners.

I love when people attempt to show differences between confirmation times and fees on some bullshit altcoin which is only be using a small amount and comparing it to bitcoin which has a disgusting amount of usage on its network. These altcoins have no problem due to them not having the same type of usage of bitcoin and that's all.

If you put the same sort of stress on the altcoins they'd be facing the same EXACT issues.

[Roboabhishek]

It is really sad, but it is true, more and more people are complaining the increasing transaction fee and the long confirmation time has been a classic problem which no solution until now, the developer need to do something about this before bitcoin user moved to another coin or stop using it, if this problems can be solved we will see more shop adopting bitcoin

If we look at it other way then we can say that Customer has to pay the fee of both his and from whom he is buying.
I am saying this because it happened with me when i buyed a game on G2A

[Doms]

The price climbing at a very high rate has people considering bitcoin more of an investment than an everyday currency, add to that the glitches that these slow to confirm transactions that a few have been experiencing over the past weeks which makes it less attractive as a tool for transaction payments. Something could be done to make way for bitcoin to be both a powerful currency and a stable investment, but there will arise some challenges and a few sacrifices along the way.

[smoothie]

Last time I participated in these discussions was I think several years ago.  Right around the time that Hearn and Andressen were spouting dire warnings about how Bitcoin only had a month or two to live unless the blocksize was raised ASAP.  Now, years later, Bitcoin is going strong, setting new highs, and an actual well designed and well thought out solutions are available when needed.

Back then the fear-mongering actually convinced a surprising number of users.  Now not so much...just a few residual dead-enders like the OP.  In fact almost nobody seems to be buying the bullshit.  The consequence of the crying wolf by 'trusted figures' no doubt, but also more people who are on this board seem to have a better grasp of the technology, the threats, and the trade-offs.  That's pretty encouraging to me.

I think the fact that many users are reporting their transactions cannot be confirmed in a reasonable amount of time (I'm currently waiting over 12 hours)
and there's 43,000 unconfirmed transactions is exactly what Gavin was talking about. 

Yes, more people have a better grasp of the technology, threats, and trade offs... More people are waking up to the fact that
we can simply increasing the blocksize and avoid this mess.

Simple solution: Increase your fee from XX cents to YY cents.

Problem solved.

If fees continue to go up that would probably mean and imply that bitcoin will be used for high value transfers.

Which opens up the market to another crypto taking on the smaller transactions that bitcoin may not be able to handle.

[Carlton Banks]

If fees continue to go up that would probably mean and imply that bitcoin will be used for high value transfers.

If the BTC price spiked by 10 or 20 times (which is not inconceivable), and the tx rate remained at ~300,000/day, the fiat value of an average fee would increase by the same basic factor. To reduce it again, the only instant fix is to increase the blocksize by that same factor.

That could easily end up in a feedback loop where the price goes up x10, then the blocksize goes up x10. Meanwhile, nodes and their bandwidth could struggle with increases like that happening too fast. Even the bigblockers know that's not a sensible risk in the short term. A scenario like that and the excess of speed at which it could happen is not at all unlikely.

Which opens up the market to another crypto taking on the smaller transactions that bitcoin may not be able to handle.

Or another payment layer for Bitcoin, of which there are now many types & implementations. It's obvious that at least one will be very successful.

[requester]

Yes its the highest price in history and i guess within 6 more months it will rise even higher. but now we are facing transaction problems. It is taking lot of time and more transaction fees is taken but system is not running smoothly.

[RodeoX]

Utility is high actually.  Bitcoin is the greatest payment system ever developed, however it is not being used as such. For everyone that spends bitcoin at a store many, many, outers just switch back and forth between BTC and local fiat. If we are speculating with bitcoin rather than using it as a currency then the project will develop accordingly. I would guess that at our current trajectory the cost of trading will soar to match trading in any currency. If you want something different then it's going to be your job to make it happen. Start spending your coin instead of selling it, start asking retailers to accept BTC.

[Gameroid]

It is really sad, but it is true, more and more people are complaining the increasing transaction fee and the long confirmation time has been a classic problem which no solution until now, the developer need to do something about this before bitcoin user moved to another coin or stop using it, if this problems can be solved we will see more shop adopting bitcoin

Yes transaction fee must be in a rang and should not increase as constant. I think therefore shold be a proper arrangement for increasing the transaction free and all the exchanges must follow the rues for accepting bitcoins.

[rizzlarolla]

If the BTC price spiked by 10 or 20 times (which is not inconceivable), and the tx rate remained at ~300,000/day, the fiat value of an average fee would increase by the same basic factor. To reduce it again, the only instant fix is to increase the blocksize by that same factor.

No. Price is not directly linked to blocksize like that.
Using your equation, which only supposes btc/$ price spikes, you would not need "10 or 20 times" the blockspace to accommodate the present users.

You would only need the "same factor blocksize increase" if consistent fee paying tx's increased by the "same factor". (adoption?)
So, in your equation the real answer is that you do not need a blocksize increase to counter Bitcoin price swings. The "dynamic" Core fee market "should" realign it's self with (existing) tx demand v "fair" market value of such. If you don't want fees to go up with new adoption then the blocksize must be increased. Core want fees to rise significantly long term, therefore keeping blockspace restricted.

That could easily end up in a feedback loop where the price goes up x10, then the blocksize goes up x10.

No. Without further adoption being included, that is the wrong conclusion.

Even the bigblockers know that's not a sensible...

Correct, not sensible or accurate..

[Carlton Banks]

If the BTC price spiked by 10 or 20 times (which is not inconceivable), and the tx rate remained at ~300,000/day, the fiat value of an average fee would increase by the same basic factor. To reduce it again, the only instant fix is to increase the blocksize by that same factor. 

No. Price is not directly linked to blocksize like that.
Using your equation, which only supposes btc/$ price spikes, you would not need "10 or 20 times" the blockspace to accommodate the present users.

That's not what I said though. You have to refute things I've actually said, not what you would prefer me to have said

[webtricks]

while investors grin about the high price, bitcoin users suffer high fees and long
wait times...

Wait wait!! Explain me how to pay a maximum of $1 for $100 international transaction can be considered as a matter of high priority?
We all are rapenting on this because we never expected that rise. But when we see cap is increasing, value of increasing then putting additional cents in transactions is not big matter to me at least!!

[philiveyjr]

I think the price would rise by further 20% to 30% if they take efforts for reducing high fees and the confirmation time. No one likes to wait to get their transaction confirmed but at the same time paying high fees is not a good option to go with (especially when we have lot more strangers to reach). I would say if we are finding any concrete solution on this issue then it will have long-term positive impact on the bitcoin.

yes that proble is needed to be solve without increasing the fee. people want the transaction to be conform and specially those people who are using bitcoin in their local shops because they cannot wait for a long time in the shops for the conformation.

Exactly, I would never imagine myself waiting in a bitcoin ATM for 24 hours to wait for the transaction to get confirmed and the machine dispenses the cash. I am still worried about using bitcoins for local shops (there are not a single merchant in my town but still), it would create huge mess IMO.

What makes you think that the ATM would take such a long time for conformation? The ATM's will most likely be instant and you will get cash instantly but there would be some sort of clause for such ATM's meaning that  either that you should have double the amount of BTC with loads of conformations already. Etc.

[Wipro]

Utility is high actually.  Bitcoin is the greatest payment system ever developed, however it is not being used as such. For everyone that spends bitcoin at a store many, many, outers just switch back and forth between BTC and local fiat. If we are speculating with bitcoin rather than using it as a currency then the project will develop accordingly. I would guess that at our current trajectory the cost of trading will soar to match trading in any currency. If you want something different then it's going to be your job to make it happen. Start spending your coin instead of selling it, start asking retailers to accept BTC.

Uses are so high in bitcoin but still usage apart from online stores, bitcoins are not widely used all the people in the world. We need to big adoption and any country should make bitcoin as a legal currency to make it popular and to the laymen people.