WeTrust vs Edgeless

[Impeachcoin]

WeTrust has a very good team and good backers (including Bo Shen and Vitalik). I will trust them.

[iamnotback]

WeTrust has a very good team and good backers (including Bo Shen and Vitalik). I will trust them.

Didn't they back the DAO, that $150 million hacked "smart" contract (that ended up not being a contract but merely a goal to be ripped up and changed ex post facto)?

How quickly we forget. How many more "smart" contract hacks do we need until we stop forgetting so easily?

I personally see both a very good project and will develop in the future, so I think there is no problem if you want to invest in this project because they both had to look great, they are working hard with the team and run the projects themselves very seriously.

How is your Lisk ICO investment working out for you?

[modernbuddha]

Open Zepplin releases its smart contract audit results!

Open Zepplin is a smart contract security auditor and has helped find flaws and improve the security for projects such as: Golem, FirstBlood, Wings DAO, Digix Global, Consensys, Rootstock, many more!

According to Manuel Aráoz, "Overall, code quality is good, it’s well commented, and most well-known security good practices were followed. This was one of the most well written contracts we had to audit."

Check out the full, un-abridged version here and explore what they've found!

Previous audits (and, ours!)

[klarki]

It is foolish to compare them. After all, they have different directions.
But for me, more interesting project is Edgeless

[modernbuddha]

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT | WeTrust Crowdsale News

All,

Due to the Amazon Web Services (AWS) outage impacting numerous infrastructure services and exchanges (e.g. Coinbase/ GDAX), we have decided to delay the Crowdsale launch by 24 hours to March 2nd, 12:00AM UTC.

We apologize for this change in schedule. However, we believe that it is critical to have a smooth crowdsale experience.

Everything else stays the same, the only difference is that the start date and bonus schedule have been pushed back by 24 hours. Please help us spread this to the greater community.

Thank you for your continued support,
WeTrust Team

[iamnotback]

Watch Out, the ICOs Are Coming

...

The 3 typical characteristics, team, product and market seem to have taken a secondary position to the 3 new magical words: tokens, blockchain and decentralization.

Token utility linkage is not always there

The assumption that everything with a potential network effect is going to work with a decentralization starting point is not entirely true. The blockchain is not for everything.

The solution or product being developed needs to have a solid business model linkage that has a particular value when decentralization and/or tokenization of actions take place. The promise of a new model needs to be very compelling.

In the name of decentralization, the promises are big. You can’t just slap a token to anything, and expect magic to happen.

The token is not the business model. The value proposition or utility that is enabled by the token is the business model, and that linkage needs to be there early on. If the direction is not right, the chosen path will not lead to a good place.

...

Neither WeTrust nor Edgeless need their own token. Someone will create copies of their smart contracts which operate with ETH or BTC or which ever is the most liquid and popular token.

Users are not going to adopt a different colored coin for every service they want to use, nor go buy colored coins for every WeTrust fee they need to pay.

These companies need to develop business models that don't depend on them each creating their own unit-of-exchange, because monetary theory informs us that will never happen!

The ICO craze is for taking money from stupid people. Simple as that.

All of you who are buying these tokens are going to lose.

[AusKipper]

A blockchain can be used to create a cryptocurrency to act as a medium of exchange.

A blockchain or cryptocurrency, IMHO, cannot vette people for loans, and then prosecute them if they are fraudulent in their loan application and/or don't pay the loan back.

I think any of these coins based on that concept is doomed to fail (WeTrust, HumanIQ)

If you want to do something like this, use an existing coin as the  currency, and then create the software etc to facilitate the peer to peer loans (ie, create a Kickstarter using Bitcoin or Monero or Dash or some other coin, and let that software run in a de-centralized fashion)

@AusKipper: We aren't policing the loans. We're creating tools for people to police themselves and organize as they choose. To thwart bad actors, WeTrust will have four deterrents:

1. Reputation risk/ Reviews: ROSCA groups will be limited to "trusted associates" - family, friends, co-workers, fraternal groups, and professional/ religious organizations. Defaulting on payments could mean social shame and loss of reputation amongst an individual's closest associates. The idea is that for ROSCAs with small enough dollar amount commitments, reputation risk will be sufficient enough to keep participants honest. Reviews may also be left by other members to show how they felt about any participant.

2. Legal risk: ROSCA formation will allow trusted associates to e-sign and bind each other to a legal contract which requires faithful adherence and payment to the ROSCA. Defaulting on payments and stealing could mean legal repercussions. Legal recourse will only be used if individuals are participating in a "high-stakes" ROSCA and legal action would be worthwhile. I've spoken to our legal advisor and she believes it will be possible to create auto-populating templates that will be tailored to each person's ROSCA terms.

3. Collateral risk: Collateral commitments may be required prior to joining a ROSCA. The collateral will be entered into a smart contract which will surrender the property to the ROSCA group if the ROSCA agreement is breached. Collateral can be liquid-cash like assets like Bitcoin or even less liquid assets such as auto/ home titles. Our system will benefit significantly from the ability to accept less liquid assets, since the majority of middle classes’ net worth is locked in real estate. Collateral would allow capital to be used more efficiently.

4. Smart contract bounty (self-enforcement): If a ROSCA participant violates the terms of the ROSCA, the ROSCA group may start a “Bounty” on the retrieval of funds. If the funds are retrieved, the “Bounty” is paid out to the person who enforces the terms of the ROSCA.


These deterrent options will be on an "opt-in" basis and participants will be able to choose the level of security they want.

I think due to the ease of creating not just fake identities, but multiple fake identities, and inputting them into this type of system makes points 1-3 more or less ineffective.

4 (the bounty) I think is a good idea and could have some effect, though how effective people will be tracking down fake identities without the support of a police database and the ability to legally conduct raids on private property etc I am not sure. I think 4 is likely to be ineffective.

I still think you should be using an existing coin and not creating your own.

I think WeTrust will fail, but, I dont want this to make you feel disappointed or anything, use my negativity to give you the energy required to go out and prove me wrong, because, I would love to be proven wrong. I like the idea of having a de-centralized bank but I just dont think it will work, ESPECIALLY when your creating a new token instead of using an existing one.

Time will tell.

*edit*

OR, before your ICO you could cancel it, listen to me (fat chance right? lol), change your plan to develop the software but use as existing coin (ie, you could work with Dash or someone), then launch the ICO again. Then you would not only get the support of people that would have supported you for this, but also the supporters of Dash (or whatever coin you chose) because they know your software, if it works, will increase the value of the token they already hold.

Even then I still think it will fail but you will have a snowballs chance in hell at least.

[iamnotback]

WeTrust has failed Coinbase's Securities Law Framework scoring guidelines.

[georgebtalk]

A blockchain can be used to create a cryptocurrency to act as a medium of exchange.

A blockchain or cryptocurrency, IMHO, cannot vette people for loans, and then prosecute them if they are fraudulent in their loan application and/or don't pay the loan back.

I think any of these coins based on that concept is doomed to fail (WeTrust, HumanIQ)

If you want to do something like this, use an existing coin as the  currency, and then create the software etc to facilitate the peer to peer loans (ie, create a Kickstarter using Bitcoin or Monero or Dash or some other coin, and let that software run in a de-centralized fashion)

@AusKipper: We aren't policing the loans. We're creating tools for people to police themselves and organize as they choose. To thwart bad actors, WeTrust will have four deterrents:

1. Reputation risk/ Reviews: ROSCA groups will be limited to "trusted associates" - family, friends, co-workers, fraternal groups, and professional/ religious organizations. Defaulting on payments could mean social shame and loss of reputation amongst an individual's closest associates. The idea is that for ROSCAs with small enough dollar amount commitments, reputation risk will be sufficient enough to keep participants honest. Reviews may also be left by other members to show how they felt about any participant.

2. Legal risk: ROSCA formation will allow trusted associates to e-sign and bind each other to a legal contract which requires faithful adherence and payment to the ROSCA. Defaulting on payments and stealing could mean legal repercussions. Legal recourse will only be used if individuals are participating in a "high-stakes" ROSCA and legal action would be worthwhile. I've spoken to our legal advisor and she believes it will be possible to create auto-populating templates that will be tailored to each person's ROSCA terms.

3. Collateral risk: Collateral commitments may be required prior to joining a ROSCA. The collateral will be entered into a smart contract which will surrender the property to the ROSCA group if the ROSCA agreement is breached. Collateral can be liquid-cash like assets like Bitcoin or even less liquid assets such as auto/ home titles. Our system will benefit significantly from the ability to accept less liquid assets, since the majority of middle classes’ net worth is locked in real estate. Collateral would allow capital to be used more efficiently.

4. Smart contract bounty (self-enforcement): If a ROSCA participant violates the terms of the ROSCA, the ROSCA group may start a “Bounty” on the retrieval of funds. If the funds are retrieved, the “Bounty” is paid out to the person who enforces the terms of the ROSCA.


These deterrent options will be on an "opt-in" basis and participants will be able to choose the level of security they want.

I think due to the ease of creating not just fake identities, but multiple fake identities, and inputting them into this type of system makes points 1-3 more or less ineffective.

4 (the bounty) I think is a good idea and could have some effect, though how effective people will be tracking down fake identities without the support of a police database and the ability to legally conduct raids on private property etc I am not sure. I think 4 is likely to be ineffective.

I still think you should be using an existing coin and not creating your own.

I think WeTrust will fail, but, I dont want this to make you feel disappointed or anything, use my negativity to give you the energy required to go out and prove me wrong, because, I would love to be proven wrong. I like the idea of having a de-centralized bank but I just dont think it will work, ESPECIALLY when your creating a new token instead of using an existing one.

Time will tell.

*edit*

OR, before your ICO you could cancel it, listen to me (fat chance right? lol), change your plan to develop the software but use as existing coin (ie, you could work with Dash or someone), then launch the ICO again. Then you would not only get the support of people that would have supported you for this, but also the supporters of Dash (or whatever coin you chose) because they know your software, if it works, will increase the value of the token they already hold.

Even then I still think it will fail but you will have a snowballs chance in hell at least.

Thanks for your thoughts! One can multiple fake identities but it may not be easy to convince your friends to join this group that has some unknown identities.  It comes down to how you would be able to convince other people (friends, trusted associates) to participate with you in this ROSCA circle. That would be difficult, because they would be able to see the email account, want to know their names, meet them etc...

At this time, you can invite others, and get invited to a Trusted Lending Circle, so you won't have the opportunity to interact with someone you do not know. The concept of a lending circle (aka rosca) is very different from lending club where you interact with strangers. In a Trusted Lending Circle, you verify that you know these participants before joining. Is that helpful? thanks!

[X-ray]

WeTrust has a very good team and good backers (including Bo Shen and Vitalik). I will trust them.

I hate the coin just use the big name to backed his project and sell that name to gain more hype and demands. This so sucks in my mind.

[Coin_trader]

both project seem to be a good project, both of them has a potential to boom, but since they are both new in this field we can not say what will be the outcome until we both see them in competition at the cryptomarket.

[TelolettOm]

ico early opening time edgelass able to get 40k eth within 40 minutes was incredible. I am sure this success ico we trust will also be successful later

[AusKipper]

Thanks for your thoughts! One can multiple fake identities but it may not be easy to convince your friends to join this group that has some unknown identities.  It comes down to how you would be able to convince other people (friends, trusted associates) to participate with you in this ROSCA circle. That would be difficult, because they would be able to see the email account, want to know their names, meet them etc...

At this time, you can invite others, and get invited to a Trusted Lending Circle, so you won't have the opportunity to interact with someone you do not know. The concept of a lending circle (aka rosca) is very different from lending club where you interact with strangers. In a Trusted Lending Circle, you verify that you know these participants before joining. Is that helpful? thanks!

Not particularly. If your lending between your close friends, you could just do it in person or over the phone no need for a new coin or software.

If the "circle" is more a local town or city, then your back with people getting info off facebook and forging ID's.

So i'm sorry but I still think project is doomed unfortunately.

[ether19]

I see these two projects have excellent potential and a second developer is very hard work to build the project, but what's your choice?
 WeTrust Thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1773367.0;topicseen
Edgeless Thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1718384.0;topicseen
 

If you got funds to invest and to take risks, then invest on both the projects and hold for some time till you get good returns, it will be safe to book profits if any of the tokens price gets pumped to x2 or more. Take out your principle amount invested that is, if things go well. All the best!

[thepo1m]

Though the WeTrust ICO has been postponed by 24hrs I will like to see their performance, the first hour performance is key for this project because of their first day bonus.

Edgeless ICO hit its minimum target in less than 24hours.

[btcrocks]

I believe wetrust will be a successful project and collect more than 1k btc

[iamnotback]

Edgeless has collected 50k ETH on first few hours of the ICO,So the start is a success.

Easy to do when the beneficiaries borrow ETH (or BTC), then buy the ICO from themselves, thus they can pay back the loan and keep the ICO tokens.

So we end up with the insiders secretly owning most of the supply. Since they don't really need the maximum they allow to raise for their expenses. It is one big scam. And you all fall for it every time.

P.S. credit @smooth for first making me aware of this in 2015.

[starblocks]

Too early to speculate about 'pumps'

[hisuka]

I choose both wetrust and edgeless. They have different project, the same goals. Lets just watch and observe this once the project will send. Because I beleive their is a future ahead.

[SHAWN-MIDWAYS]

Its difficult to pick between the two distinct projects as others have already said but not to bias I believe the Edgeless project can easily blossom into a rewarding investment because the casino industry is an eminent place for cryptocurriencies.