If any hardware makers really want to succeed!!

[repentance]

Don't assume that the thousands of factoried in China are all booked to the core with million dollar orders. If that was the case Avalon wouldnt be able to buy chips. Or cases, or power supplies, or every other material they need. The fact that they have produced a product means they can easily ship all matetials to a manufacterer and have them put it together.

Their batches are selling out in hours if they left orders open for a week im sure they would get 5-10k in orders which there are pleanty of manufacturers that would produce and assemble them for you.

Avalon has contacts at the fab (if you've never done business with Asian companies, it's difficult to grasp how critical this is).  They have made no secret of this.  Avalon also does a great deal of stuff themselves which BFL contracts out (which is one reason Avalon's batches have been so small to date).  They have had problems sourcing some components (an issue which they appear to have resolved now).

The small run thing is not conjecture.  Josh has posted about the problems they had with the facilities (including US facilities) they were using not considering their order "urgent" even though they were paying extra to expedite their order.  Hell, they had problems even getting information about where their order was really up to.

Yes, there are thousands of factories in Asia.  Many of them only offer specific processes (this is one reason why people were able to take an educated guess at which fabs the ASIC vendors were using).  Which facilities are reliable?  More importantly, which facilities does your personal representative have relationships with (because nothing is getting done without leveraging a relationship - you can't just pick a factory out of the yellow pages and hope for the best)?

Using third parties for assembly requires impeccable timing.  They don't want your components sitting around in their facility for weeks while they wait for one last manufacturer to deliver a component so they can process your order.  If you miss the "window" they'd set aside for you, there may not be another available for weeks.  Idle machines and idle workers cost them money so they aren't just sitting around waiting for your order.  If you're not ready when they're ready for your order, they'll just go ahead with someone else's and fit you in wherever.

Companies which have their shit together make all of this stuff look effortless.  It isn't.

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[pizza]

Don't assume that the thousands of factoried in China are all booked to the core with million dollar orders. If that was the case Avalon wouldnt be able to buy chips. Or cases, or power supplies, or every other material they need. The fact that they have produced a product means they can easily ship all matetials to a manufacterer and have them put it together.

Their batches are selling out in hours if they left orders open for a week im sure they would get 5-10k in orders which there are pleanty of manufacturers that would produce and assemble them for you.

Avalon has contacts at the fab (if you've never done business with Asian companies, it's difficult to grasp how critical this is).  They have made no secret of this.  Avalon also does a great deal of stuff themselves which BFL contracts out (which is one reason Avalon's batches have been so small to date).  They have had problems sourcing some components (an issue which they appear to have resolved now).

The small run thing is not conjecture.  Josh has posted about the problems they had with the facilities (including US facilities) they were using not considering their order "urgent" even though they were paying extra to expedite their order.  Hell, they had problems even getting information about where their order was really up to.

Yes, there are thousands of factories in Asia.  Many of them only offer specific processes (this is one reason why people were able to take an educated guess at which fabs the ASIC vendors were using).  Which facilities are reliable?  More importantly, which facilities does your personal representative have relationships with (because nothing is getting done without leveraging a relationship - you can't just pick a factory out of the yellow pages and hope for the best)?

Using third parties for assembly requires impeccable timing.  They don't want your components sitting around in their facility for weeks while they wait for one last manufacturer to deliver a component so they can process your order.  If you miss the "window" they'd set aside for you, there may not be another available for weeks.  Idle machines and idle workers cost them money so they aren't just sitting around waiting for your order.  If you're not ready when they're ready for your order, they'll just go ahead with someone else's and fit you in wherever.

Companies which have their shit together make all of this stuff look effortless.  It isn't.

Nobody said its efortless but it can def. be done with some effort, and i wouldnt put to much faith on Josh's word lol

[mrb]

I want a One Terra hash rig made up of Avalon chips... that would be sexy!

One Thash/s isn't cool. You know what's cool?

[pizza]

I want a One Terra hash rig made up of Avalon chips... that would be sexy!

One Thash/s isn't cool. You know what's cool?

You've been waiting a long time, what is cool?

[mrb]

One Phash/s.

[Signus]

If BTC were really worthless, we wouldn't be involved in this giant market startup. Think of the amount of money going through Avalon and BFL right now with how many orders they've taken, in BTC or not. It's all to mine for bitcoins that puts money in your pocket, or for fun for the hobbyist.

If it were worthless you wouldn't waste your time considering entering the market because your efforts would then be as "worthless" as the currency itself, which does have its flaws.

You are correct in stating that these companies pricehandling methodology is flawed when it comes to the exchange rate. I guess you can't expect them to change with the rate when they know they'll make the extra money off of it.

[pizza]

If BTC were really worthless, we wouldn't be involved in this giant market startup. Think of the amount of money going through Avalon and BFL right now with how many orders they've taken, in BTC or not. It's all to mine for bitcoins that puts money in your pocket, or for fun for the hobbyist.

If it were worthless you wouldn't waste your time considering entering the market because your efforts would then be as "worthless" as the currency itself, which does have its flaws.

You are correct in stating that these companies pricehandling methodology is flawed when it comes to the exchange rate. I guess you can't expect them to change with the rate when they know they'll make the extra money off of it.

completely agree, don't know what you are replying to bitcoin being worthless? Of course they won't why would they sell something for 3-5K when they can sell it for 15-20K, but that will be their downfall when a company actually comes in delivers an actual product and charges a reasonable amount, these companies will vanish or then finally be forced to compete, but they will still have a hard time as they have demonstrated that their business model doesn't revolve around the customer.

[Viceroy]

I want a One Terra hash rig made up of Avalon chips... that would be sexy!

does it need to be Avalon based?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=180877.0

[pizza]

One Phash/s.

YAY!!!!!! Imagine I replied 1 year later

[YipYip]

Secondly,  stop charging in bitcoin that just screams greedy selfish asshole.

You're right, Bitcoin is worthless and nobody should sell their goods for bitcoins.

Should I call a European company greedy and selfish for charging EUR for their products?  Of course not, and so it makes no sense to call a Bitcoin company greedy and selfish for charging BTC for their product.

"But if I shop online, a European company will automatically convert EUR to USD for me!"  That's because neither EUR nor USD is an acceptable online currency; neither currency makes sense across borders.  Bitcoin does.  Bitcoin is an international, internet-compliant currency.  If I were shopping in Germany, should I expect to use USD to buy products?  Of course not, I would exchange my USD to the local currency  By the same reasoning, I should exchange my USD to BTC to shop online at a Bitcoin-based company.

The only reasons a Bitcoin company should charge local fiat for their products are A) as a convenience to their customers, or B) they don't have any faith in Bitcoin.

I agree that, right now, a company selling bitcoin mining equipment for local fiat will be more profitable.  But, during these early growing pains of the Bitcoin ecosystem, we really need pioneers to take the bull by the horns and drive the point home that BTC is a currency too.  I consider companies like Avalon more successful.

Completely missed the point. The EUR or USD dont have 50-200% price swings in a months time. Im all for of using bitcoin to make purchases if it was stable.

Honestly fuck off then ..go back to the banking system we dont need people like u

[pizza]

Secondly,  stop charging in bitcoin that just screams greedy selfish asshole.

You're right, Bitcoin is worthless and nobody should sell their goods for bitcoins.

Should I call a European company greedy and selfish for charging EUR for their products?  Of course not, and so it makes no sense to call a Bitcoin company greedy and selfish for charging BTC for their product.

"But if I shop online, a European company will automatically convert EUR to USD for me!"  That's because neither EUR nor USD is an acceptable online currency; neither currency makes sense across borders.  Bitcoin does.  Bitcoin is an international, internet-compliant currency.  If I were shopping in Germany, should I expect to use USD to buy products?  Of course not, I would exchange my USD to the local currency  By the same reasoning, I should exchange my USD to BTC to shop online at a Bitcoin-based company.

The only reasons a Bitcoin company should charge local fiat for their products are A) as a convenience to their customers, or B) they don't have any faith in Bitcoin.

I agree that, right now, a company selling bitcoin mining equipment for local fiat will be more profitable.  But, during these early growing pains of the Bitcoin ecosystem, we really need pioneers to take the bull by the horns and drive the point home that BTC is a currency too.  I consider companies like Avalon more successful.

Completely missed the point. The EUR or USD dont have 50-200% price swings in a months time. Im all for of using bitcoin to make purchases if it was stable.

Honestly fuck off then ..go back to the banking system we dont need people like u

Yes bitcoin needs more intellectual people like you who tells people to fuck off.

Hey fellow merchant you should use bitcoin even though prices fluctuate 200% within weeks.
How will this effect me? And how can I accept bitcoin and have this not affect me.
FUCK OFF WE DON'T NEED PEOPLE LIKE YOU

Next time you should look in the mirror when you yell that out fucking dumbass.

[Bicknellski]

Very keen on assembling boards to chips here in Indonesia and charge IDR or FRC actually. Here is hoping I can find a decent design for the PCB the BOM along with the right price point for miners here. We should be looking locally to build these rather than shipping these things all over the planet. Get supplies regionally assemble and sell locally. BTC is pretty volatile but then again without people actually using the currency as a currency we can't expect it to stabilize can we.

[Bitsaurus]

Many of you guys posting about hardware builds with avalon chips, need to do a few things if you really want people to support you in the long term.

First have different offerings, so far the offerings are 10chips all the way hundreds of chips.
I want a 50-100gh/sec in one package, not a room with 100 boards.

Secondly,  stop charging in bitcoin that just screams greedy selfish asshole. Avalon bullshits us with their magical formula on how they come up with pricing, meanwhile their formula doesnt account for price change. If bitcoin was as stable as fiat and not have price swings of 300% then it would be ok.

75bitcoin x 250 and 75bitcoin x 50 is a really big difference. It's like Caterpiller changing the price of their mining equipment because the price of gold went up. Successful companies charge fixed costs they don't tie their price to something. Ohh corn prices tripled so did our harvester. Its just real scummy doing so, thats why avalon will die when real customer focused companies come out.

If anybody can do this and continue to do it they will completely crush the avalons and the butterfly labs. It might not happen now but sooner or later it will.

You're new here aren't you (well newer than me)?  Please read around more before making self-contradictory points.  You claim it is scummy for a company to raise prices based on the functional utility of their product (the 2 examples you gave Cat/Gold & Harvester/corn).  Avalon is doing literally what you said.  They are not charging any more in RMB or USD just because of the exchange rate of the coin.  They base their price simply on roughly 1-2 months of ROI.  Where else in the investment world will you find that?

If you joined here late in April and had to pay more to get BTC you can only blame yourself (and your own luck).  If you truly believed in BTC you would have bought some within 3 days of discovering it.  Now you're looking for a magical BTC printing machine.

If you really want BTC make a good business and accept payment in BTC, it will come flowing in.

[Bogart]

Completely missed the point. The EUR or USD dont have 50-200% price swings in a months time. Im all for of using bitcoin to make purchases if it was stable.

Wat?  Define "price".

1 BTC is always worth 1 BTC.

Just as 1 USD is always worth 1 USD.

[StringTheory]

You complain about Avalon's price in BTC pizza, but its just showing your greed.  Of course you should pay BTC for something that generates BTC.  The price conversion doesn't matter and just shows your lack of faith in BTC, and hopes of turning a quick profit in fiat dollars.  Its funny actually, and your hostile language just shows your intentions.  You're the greedy, entitled asshole.

[StringTheory]

Completely missed the point. The EUR or USD dont have 50-200% price swings in a months time. Im all for of using bitcoin to make purchases if it was stable.

Wat?  Define "price".

1 BTC is always worth 1 BTC.

Just as 1 USD is always worth 1 USD.

+1

[pizza]

Completely missed the point. The EUR or USD dont have 50-200% price swings in a months time. Im all for of using bitcoin to make purchases if it was stable.

Wat?  Define "price".

1 BTC is always worth 1 BTC.

Just as 1 USD is always worth 1 USD.

+1

You guys must be mentally retarded lol

[pizza]

You complain about Avalon's price in BTC pizza, but its just showing your greed.  Of course you should pay BTC for something that generates BTC.  The price conversion doesn't matter and just shows your lack of faith in BTC, and hopes of turning a quick profit in fiat dollars.  Its funny actually, and your hostile language just shows your intentions.  You're the greedy, entitled asshole.

Yes when i buy a 20k miner and i need to now pay for things like bills, ect i will just send those companies bitcoins. Ohh wait they dont accept bitcoins so i need to convert them to fiat you dumb fuck. Go fail at life elsewhere.

[StringTheory]

You complain about Avalon's price in BTC pizza, but its just showing your greed.  Of course you should pay BTC for something that generates BTC.  The price conversion doesn't matter and just shows your lack of faith in BTC, and hopes of turning a quick profit in fiat dollars.  Its funny actually, and your hostile language just shows your intentions.  You're the greedy, entitled asshole.

Yes when i buy a 20k miner and i need to now pay for things like bills, ect i will just send those companies bitcoins. Ohh wait they dont accept bitcoins so i need to convert them to fiat you dumb fuck. Go fail at life elsewhere.

If you're too poor to support your basic living expenses and have to rely on Bitcoin mining and conversion to fiat to pay them, you clearly dont have the capital to risk to become a player.

[pizza]

You complain about Avalon's price in BTC pizza, but its just showing your greed.  Of course you should pay BTC for something that generates BTC.  The price conversion doesn't matter and just shows your lack of faith in BTC, and hopes of turning a quick profit in fiat dollars.  Its funny actually, and your hostile language just shows your intentions.  You're the greedy, entitled asshole.

Yes when i buy a 20k miner and i need to now pay for things like bills, ect i will just send those companies bitcoins. Ohh wait they dont accept bitcoins so i need to convert them to fiat you dumb fuck. Go fail at life elsewhere.

If you're too poor to support your basic living expenses and have to rely on Bitcoin mining and conversion to fiat to pay them, you clearly dont have the capital to risk to become a player.

No i enjoy mining and never cashing out my initial investment and keeping it in bitcoin forever hell i like to suport the mining equipment with money out of my own pocket, i will never buy anything with them until the whole world accepts them as payment. I wont cash some bitcoins for fiat ever until that happens. Good argument though you must have a PHD in advanced economics