Australian tax department discussing Bitcoin tax without consulting CCCB

[Bitcoinpro]

After seeing a press release in the Australian media regarding the Australian Taxation office looking at Bitcoin for Tax purposes which i know they have done because ive been contacting government officials, Ive rung the relevant media outlets to say nothing goes to press without consulting the CCCB and any tax laws or even considering tax laws by the Australian Taxation department must be done in collaboration with the CCCB (Crypto Currency Central Bank) with my position being president, i will keep everyone here informed as to developments. They said they will be calling me back Monday!

Their is no problem with the press releasing information about bitcoin but if it has to do with rules and regulations it will be the CCCB that will take charge!!!

Here is the Press release in full:

The Australian taxation office says it does not know if profit earned from trading in bitcoin, the online digital currency, should be taxed. Interest in bitcoin has surged in recent weeks, giving investors a wild ride. Its value has risen from $15 at the start of the year to $266 last week before slumping to about $126 yesterday.

While the digital currency is attracting growing interest from conventional investors - trading frim IG markets has launched a service allowing clients to bet on movements in its value - the ATO is still carrying out a review.

We are currently considering the tax implications of digital currencies, " the tax office said.

The tax office will also need to consider whether purchases paid by bitcoin - which is under the control of no government or central bank - are regarded as barter, in-kind payments or payments in a foreign currency.

Foreign currency is considered a capital gains tax asset by the ATO. But even if the taxman decided bitcoin is not a currency, capital gains tax could still apply.

Melbourne University tax law professor Miranda Stewart said if Bitcoin holders were deemed to buying rights to the computer code that comprised the virtual currency, it could be considered an asset subject to capital gains tax.

[1715672013]

1715672013

[yocko06]

Thanks for the info. Hopefully they don't try and backdate anything.

[Bitcoinpro]

Thanks for the info. Hopefully they don't try and backdate anything.

Your welcome, have an email i sent last week that i will post later, was waiting for the reply from the minister before I put up the initial email but its seems that this press release has preempted that.

[RenegadeMind]

Oh? The Australian kleptocrats want to steal more from people?

I'm shocked! 

[NedKLee]

Thanks for the info, was wondering how long it would be before they wanted to get their dirty little bum scratchers on our investments.

You may just fly a little kite and ask them if there will be a facility to offset any losses against taxable income too.
IE, suppose my investment in BTC at the 30th of June 2013 = $AUD 2000, but due to the massive market valuations my portfolio value = $AUD 1000.

Seems to me if they want the benefit of the gains then they can wear the losses as well, share and share alike.

[Justin00]

umm is the CCCB a real thing... ?
and why would the ATO/government need to run it by you and this bank ?

*edit* read some of your posts... not sure if serious.......

[luffy]

i don't think they can tax directly BTC but fiat that is bought by btc, is this the case?
the only coin i know with integrated "tax" (demurage) is FRC and this tax returns to miners!

[Peleus]

Uhhhh. what?

[Bitcoin Oz]

who are you?

[drakahn]

who are you?

Uhhhh. what?

umm is the CCCB a real thing... ?
and why would the ATO/government need to run it by you and this bank ?

*edit* read some of your posts... not sure if serious.......

For a while i thought i was the only one that had no idea...

[repentance]

You should probably learn to use your shift key if you plan to issue media releases.

Australians concerned about how Bitcoin will be taxed can ask for an individual ruling from the ATO.  If you have an individual ruling, the ATO is bound to honour it for that financial year even if the ATO's eventual decision on how to treat something for tax purposes in general is at odds with that ruling.  They basically have no recourse against you if they get it wrong (bear in mind that Australia works on self-assessment so the onus is usually in the taxpayer to get it right).

Different taxation issues will arise for different Bitcoin users.  Following the advice of a tax agent does not protect you from liability if your tax agent gets it wrong.

[David M]

My business has been accepting bitcoin since late 2011.  All bitcoins have been declared for income and GST (consumption tax e.g VAT for the uninformed) purposes and I have had no issues at all. 

The trading of bitcoin for speculation purposes is still up in the air.  Gambling income in Australia is tax free.

So they have to make a decision soon.  If bitcoin is a real currency, then tax must be paid on capital gains, if not, let the bots begin!!!!

[Malawi]

My business has been accepting bitcoin since late 2011.  All bitcoins have been declared for income and GST (consumption tax e.g VAT for the uninformed) purposes and I have had no issues at all. 

The trading of bitcoin for speculation purposes is still up in the air.  Gambling income in Australia is tax free.

So they have to make a decision soon.  If bitcoin is a real currency, then tax must be paid on capital gains, if not, let the bots begin!!!!

Ironically - if bitcoin is defined as a currency, then the price go up because of the added legimacy. If Bitcoin is considdered tax-free gamblimng, the price goes up because of the tax-break(and added legimacy).

[Chaz]

What about purchases with bitcoins?  Say your bitcoins have risen in value 2000%, you now have enough value to purchase a house or a car.  You find a seller that is willing to accept BTC for their house/car, what taxes would the buyer be liable for?

[David M]

If as a business you are prepared to accept a "Bitcoin" (or casino chip) as a form of payment then I think you would have to pay the relevant taxes.

Yes you do. In Australia, the "transaction medium" is priced at market rates.  Think Barter Card.

Real World Example:  I received 5 BTC at ~$48 AUD per BTC ($250).  I sell 3 BTC  at $70AUD/ BTC  not long after.

I declare the full $250 as income and keep the 2 BTC.  I declare the 2 BTC as part of a "cash on hand/ float" asset at the market rate*.
Any losses or profit I make when I convert the 2 BTC to $AUD is then entered as profit or loss.

* I get to choose the rate.  Because it's the wild west (no benchmark pricing) I choose the "best price" for the reporting period.

[NedKLee]

If as a business you are prepared to accept a "Bitcoin" (or casino chip) as a form of payment then I think you would have to pay the relevant taxes.

Yes you do. In Australia, the "transaction medium" is priced at market rates.  Think Barter Card.

Real World Example:  I received 5 BTC at ~$48 AUD per BTC ($250).  I sell 3 BTC  at $70AUD/ BTC  not long after.

I declare the full $250 as income and keep the 2 BTC.  I declare the 2 BTC as part of a "cash on hand/ float" asset at the market rate*.
Any losses or profit I make when I convert the 2 BTC to $AUD is then entered as profit or loss.

* I get to choose the rate.  Because it's the wild west (no benchmark pricing) I choose the "best price" for the reporting period.

Really cool if you're receiving BTC as a merchant in return for goods and/or services, but what about the humble PAYG earner?

[Bitcoinpro]

as mentioned earlier and in my pledge to make the CCCB as transparent as possible when acting in my capacity here is a copy of the letter i sent to a government minister in Australia this week

Greetings  i am writing to bring to your attention the new age in currency,

being heralded by Crypto Currencies with the lead currency being Bitcoin, these digital currencies

are made through thousands of strong computers linked together in a peer network using

CIA/NSA Cryptography to make uncrackable encryptions that are used to store value.

Having been a very early adopter of Bitcoins and this technology i have gone about the process of

setting up the Crypto Currency Central Bank a Global organisation with myself as the President.

Now for the main purpose of this letter I need your help, my plan is to amalgamate the CCCB

with the Australian government and Reserve Bank also joining along side the Central Banks around

the world including the World Bank.

This is not a half hearted endevour the global bitcoin community is awaiting our response and

any regulation would also include taxation for the Australian government.

Can you please consult the relevant parties be they one of the senators or Federal Goverment

Employees like reserve bank members including Mr Swan, i shall keep in close contact and look

forward to big things!

[Bitcoin Oz]

If the ATO can prove I made bitcoins from anything other than satoshidice then good luck to them....

[Justin00]

what are you trying to do ?
like what is the goal here ?

You should also try use "I" instead of "i" when writing form letters... and spell check

as mentioned earlier and in my pledge to make the CCCB as transparent as possible when acting in my capacity here is a copy of the letter i sent to a government minister in Australia this week

Greetings  i am writing to bring to your attention the new age in currency,

being heralded by Crypto Currencies with the lead currency being Bitcoin, these digital currencies

are made through thousands of strong computers linked together in a peer network using

CIA/NSA Cryptography to make uncrackable encryptions that are used to store value.

Having been a very early adopter of Bitcoins and this technology i have gone about the process of

setting up the Crypto Currency Central Bank a Global organisation with myself as the President.

Now for the main purpose of this letter I need your help, my plan is to amalgamate the CCCB

with the Australian government and Reserve Bank also joining along side the Central Banks around

the world including the World Bank.

This is not a half hearted endevour the global bitcoin community is awaiting our response and

any regulation would also include taxation for the Australian government.

Can you please consult the relevant parties be they one of the senators or Federal Goverment

Employees like reserve bank members including Mr Swan, i shall keep in close contact and look

forward to big things!

[Bitcoinpro]

the australian tax office cannot be contacted by email  

have written an email to them and its seems as though i cannot send it

they want me to use snail mail on a topic like bitcoin that is a leading edge technology of the internet  

http://www.ato.gov.au/