Serious Question About Unconfirmed Transaction and domino effect

[coinbugs]

Hello everyone,

Im in a bit of a dilema here.  Let me jump right in.
Here is my problem.

Lets say, I received 3 payments from 3 different people. (lets call them A, B, C)

Mr A paid me 0.5 BTC (unconfirmed)
Mr B paid  me 1 BTC  (2 confirmations)
Mr c paid me 1.5 BTC (5 confirmations)

And so, in total i had 3 BTC on my blockchain.info wallet.
I then sent 3BTC to shapeshift to convert to a Alt Coin (i wont say which lol).

Now this is where the problem starts...

The 3BTC payment is forever pending on shapeshift's address because of the unconfirmed 0.5btc sent from Mr A (because Mr A sent the 0.5 BTC to me with a miners fee of 0.0002 BTC).

Lets say this 0.5BTC is not confirmed in x amount of time. Im assuming, the 0.5BTC payment goes back to Mr A. What happens to the remaining 2.5 BTC ?

Does it

- Go on forward and get confirmed on shapeshifts address (destination) ?
or
- Come back on my blockchain.info address (origin) ?

Can someone please clear this up.

I personally blame blockchain.info for allowing unconfirmed transactions to be included in available balances and then allowing users to send out balances that contain unconfirmed transactions within it. This causes payments to be choked further along the line.  

PS. Whats even more wierd is this transaction ONLY shows on blockchain.info's blockchain explorer. On the other blockchain explorers, it doesnt even show.

[Dmitry.Vastov]

Unconfirmed transactions i believe will go back to its origin or owner. So you dont have to worry where the funds go when the transaction unconfirmed. You should higher the fees or put in to priority to avoid inconvenience. I know it sucks. But we cant do anything about it.

[SFR10]

Lets say this 0.5BTC is not confirmed in x amount of time. Im assuming, the 0.5BTC payment goes back to Mr A. What happens to the remaining 2.5 BTC ?

Does it

- Go on forward and get confirmed on shapeshifts address (destination) ?
or
- Come back on my blockchain.info address (origin) ?

Goes back to your address.

I personally blame blockchain.info for allowing unconfirmed transactions to be included in available balances and then allowing users to send out balances that contain unconfirmed transactions within it. This causes payments to be choked further along the line.  

PS. Whats even more wierd is this transaction ONLY shows on blockchain.info's blockchain explorer. On the other blockchain explorers, it doesnt even show.

Although it would've been nice for them to not allow unconfirmed inputs to be used, it's still users (your) fault for using it since you took the risk of using a transaction that might never receive confirmations. Other nodes have most likely dropped it and as result, that transaction isn't visible on other explorers.
This thread gives a solution for the confirmation issues (and few others): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1802212.0

[kiklo]

Hello everyone,

Im in a bit of a dilema here.  Let me jump right in.
Here is my problem.

Lets say, I received 3 payments from 3 different people. (lets call them A, B, C)

Mr A paid me 0.5 BTC (unconfirmed)
Mr B paid  me 1 BTC  (2 confirmations)
Mr c paid me 1.5 BTC (5 confirmations)

And so, in total i had 3 BTC on my blockchain.info wallet.
I then sent 3BTC to shapeshift to convert to a Alt Coin (i wont say which lol).

Now this is where the problem starts...

The 3BTC payment is forever pending on shapeshift's address because of the unconfirmed 0.5btc sent from Mr A (because Mr A sent the 0.5 BTC to me with a miners fee of 0.0002 BTC).

Lets say this 0.5BTC is not confirmed in x amount of time. Im assuming, the 0.5BTC payment goes back to Mr A. What happens to the remaining 2.5 BTC ?

Does it

- Go on forward and get confirmed on shapeshifts address (destination) ?
or
- Come back on my blockchain.info address (origin) ?

Can someone please clear this up.

I personally blame blockchain.info for allowing unconfirmed transactions to be included in available balances and then allowing users to send out balances that contain unconfirmed transactions within it. This causes payments to be choked further along the line.  

PS. Whats even more wierd is this transaction ONLY shows on blockchain.info's blockchain explorer. On the other blockchain explorers, it doesnt even show.

Unconfirmed transactions stay in the mempool for 72 hours.
After 72 hours if they have ZERO confirmations, control of those BTC revert back to the original sender.
Which if they are honest , they will resend the BTC to you again at a higher fee.
If they are not honest and received a product or service, then they just stole your product or service. 

Moral of the Story , Until you receive the recommended # of confirmations, there is no guarantee you own those BTC and ownership will not revert back to the sender.
BTC wait 3 confirmations to be safe. (Why 3 , because BTC has on average 3 orphans per day, 2 of those blocks may be orphaned, so wait 3 to be safe.)

 

[pooya87]

what you need to know is that you don't own the transactions that are not yet confirmed. which means when you spend 3 BTC you are spending what you don't yet have.
- try spending 2.5 BTC instead.
- look for solutions to confirm that 0.5 BTC unconfirmed tx such as using ViaBTC accelerator
and remember when you send a transaction as long as it is valid it may stay out there. technically nodes stop broadcasting your transaction by "forgetting about it" in 72 hours but usually blockchain.info re-broadcasts the same transaction after that period.

[Amph]

Hello everyone,

Im in a bit of a dilema here.  Let me jump right in.
Here is my problem.

Lets say, I received 3 payments from 3 different people. (lets call them A, B, C)

Mr A paid me 0.5 BTC (unconfirmed)
Mr B paid  me 1 BTC  (2 confirmations)
Mr c paid me 1.5 BTC (5 confirmations)

And so, in total i had 3 BTC on my blockchain.info wallet.
I then sent 3BTC to shapeshift to convert to a Alt Coin (i wont say which lol).

Now this is where the problem starts...

The 3BTC payment is forever pending on shapeshift's address because of the unconfirmed 0.5btc sent from Mr A (because Mr A sent the 0.5 BTC to me with a miners fee of 0.0002 BTC).

Lets say this 0.5BTC is not confirmed in x amount of time. Im assuming, the 0.5BTC payment goes back to Mr A. What happens to the remaining 2.5 BTC ?

Does it

- Go on forward and get confirmed on shapeshifts address (destination) ?
or
- Come back on my blockchain.info address (origin) ?

Can someone please clear this up.

I personally blame blockchain.info for allowing unconfirmed transactions to be included in available balances and then allowing users to send out balances that contain unconfirmed transactions within it. This causes payments to be choked further along the line.  

PS. Whats even more wierd is this transaction ONLY shows on blockchain.info's blockchain explorer. On the other blockchain explorers, it doesnt even show.

Unconfirmed transactions stay in the mempool for 72 hours.
After 72 hours if they have ZERO confirmations, control of those BTC revert back to the original sender.
Which if they are honest , they will resend the BTC to you again at a higher fee.
If they are not honest and received a product or service, then they just stole your product or service. 

Moral of the Story , Until you receive the recommended # of confirmations, there is no guarantee you own those BTC and ownership will not revert back to the sender.
BTC wait 3 confirmations to be safe. (Why 3 , because BTC has on average 3 orphans per day, 2 of those blocks may be orphaned, so wait 3 to be safe.)

 

who decided about the 72 hours, there is a reason behind it? if not would have been better if it was 24 hour, thus i don't have to wait so long in case of an unconfrimed TX

i remember when they said that the reaosn for waiting at least one confirm was for a certain type of attack(ie like finney and other...) but the real reason is this uncofirmed thing for 3 days...

[kiklo]

who decided about the 72 hours, there is a reason behind it? if not would have been better if it was 24 hour, thus i don't have to wait so long in case of an unconfrimed TX

i remember when they said that the reason for waiting at least one confirm was for a certain type of attack(ie like finney and other...) but the real reason is this uncofirmed thing for 3 days...

http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/43155/do-unconfirmed-transactions-expire-after-some-time

since Bitcoin Core 0.12 there actually is an expiration in the mempool, which evicts unconfirmed transactions after N hours, where N is set by -mempoolexpiry, and defaults to 72 hours.

helps keeping the mempool fresh.

Default is 72 hours that was set by the BTC programmers

 

FYI:
These unconfirmed transactions are a result of BTC limited # of transactions available per day,
and the fact they have a system that chooses your transaction entry into a block based solely on your fee.    
Allowing richer people to jump in front of you in line.

[YuginKadoya]

This kind of problem was kind of suck in the transaction part on bitcoin, but I think to settle this problem Blockchain needs to updated their system like giving us a fix fee for different amount of transaction if they would just do this I think we don't need to give a higher amount for a transaction but it is still up to them if they would do this, and if the transaction is Unconfirmed they it will just revert back to the original owner then what will happen to the fee that is paid?

[soul-impact]

Using blockchain.info is not a good wallet and there have been several issues with this wallet, like yours. They allow us to send to money while transactions are not confirmed. Anyhow, if your transaction can not be confirmed, they will return to your wallet after at least 48 hours. However, I remember that shapeshifts address only valid for 24 hours. What will happen if the transactions is confirmed after 24 hours?

[kiklo]

Using blockchain.info is not a good wallet and there have been several issues with this wallet, like yours. They allow us to send to money while transactions are not confirmed. Anyhow, if your transaction can not be confirmed, they will return to your wallet after at least 48 hours. However, I remember that shapeshifts address only valid for 24 hours. What will happen if the transactions is confirmed after 24 hours?

Depends if you included a return address, they should refund the BTC after it arrives.

If you did not include the optional return address,

submit a customer support request for a return and include the deposit address we provided you to send your funds to, the txid and an address to send your funds back to you.

Go here for the details: 
https://info.shapeshift.io/blog/2015/10/08/shapeshift-101-why-you-should-add-your-return-address-when-doing-transaction


 

[Idrisu]

From my wallet I always looks at unconfirmed transactions as transactions that is not my. You should always wait for your transactions to be confirmed before do anything with it. Though is very disappointing for you to faces this kind situation but the realities is that bitcoin will not get to your wallet but the originators of the transactions.

[Lauda]

And so, in total i had 3 BTC on my blockchain.info wallet.

Stop using online wallets that have access to your keys or provide you limited functionality.

- Go on forward and get confirmed on shapeshifts address (destination) ?
or
- Come back on my blockchain.info address (origin) ?

The transaction can't confirm if the used output as your input is unconfirmed. Therefore, your money would "return to your wallet" (this is not the right way to state it, but makes it easier for newbies to understand).

PS. Whats even more wierd is this transaction ONLY shows on blockchain.info's blockchain explorer. On the other blockchain explorers, it doesnt even show.

Either it is badly propagated or they didn't even propagate it at all due to the unconfirmed output. See my first remark (stop using online wallets).
If you had used a wallet such as Bitcoin Core, which has coin control functionality, you could have avoided this mess easily.

This kind of problem was kind of suck in the transaction part on bitcoin, but I think to settle this problem Blockchain needs to updated their system like giving us a fix fee for different amount of transaction if they would just do this I think we don't need to give a higher amount for a transaction but it is still up to them if they would do this, and if the transaction is Unconfirmed they it will just revert back to the original owner then what will happen to the fee that is paid?

Please do not post ever again in similar cases. What you wrote is complete bullshit and has nothing to do with reality. You are making it worse for newbies.

You should always wait for your transactions to be confirmed before do anything with it.

Wrong. RBF and CPFP.

Though is very disappointing for you to faces this kind situation but the realities is that bitcoin will not get to your wallet but the originators of the transactions.

The Bitcoin never "left your wallet" to begin with.

[requester]

For such high transaction you should pay at least 0.004btc for 1 btc and then you should get your transaction should get confirmed soon. and now a days sending small transaction is a headache for us.

[Tesorex]

For such high transaction you should pay at least 0.004btc for 1 btc and then you should get your transaction should get confirmed soon. and now a days sending small transaction is a headache for us.

Why so much? he's not gonna watch porn but sends a few coins, to make sure his unconfirmed one gets a confirm just sending 10 satoshis per byte more than the recommended fees is like a replace with higher fee but doesn't replace only includes the parent(unconfirmed 0.5) into the next block that the whole 3 bitcoins are included.

[supergenics]

For such high transaction you should pay at least 0.004btc for 1 btc and then you should get your transaction should get confirmed soon. and now a days sending small transaction is a headache for us.

0.004BTC is equal to more than $4!! I guess this is overkill... A 100-200 bits transaction fee should do during normal days... Stress tests come once awhile but not often.

[ShetKid]

If you received the funds in your wallet but they were just unconfirmed then they will go back to YOUR wallet

Hope this helps

[severaldetails]

I am courious about something:
Does blockchain.info really let you spend coins from a transaction that has no confirmations?
I have never tried that, but I would be surprised if that really works.
Has anybody else informations about this?

[szpalata]

If you received the funds in your wallet but they were just unconfirmed then they will go back to YOUR wallet

Hope this helps

It will automatically reverse back to the originator wallet but it might have already caused undue delay and tension that's why I call for this  delayed and high price confirmations to be addressed before it gets out of hand.

[BingoDog]

I am courious about something:
Does blockchain.info really let you spend coins from a transaction that has no confirmations?
I have never tried that, but I would be surprised if that really works.
Has anybody else informations about this?

I had situation like this several times. I use blockchain wallet and often I have sent coins to other addresses as soon as I have received them in my wallet, so with zero confirmation at that moment. Never had any problems, sent coins have reached its destination. I don't know if that is functioning with other wallets.

[FlamingFingers]

For such high transaction you should pay at least 0.004btc for 1 btc and then you should get your transaction should get confirmed soon. and now a days sending small transaction is a headache for us.

0.004BTC is equal to more than $4!! I guess this is overkill... A 100-200 bits transaction fee should do during normal days... Stress tests come once awhile but not often.

I don't know if that's true, but I sent 0.005BTC to an exchange address five days ago and paid 0.001BTC fees to be confirmed quickly; yet it took two days to be confirmed. 20% paid as fees, and still delay for two days is simply absurd and very annoying.