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Author Topic: Is there a way for me to use a Mycelium HD wallet in Electrum or vise versa?  (Read 4428 times)
Nathan047
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March 04, 2017, 07:56:04 PM
 #1

I've always used Electrum on my computer, but I use Mycelium on my phone. I'm currently using a combination of a couple vanity address and a few paper wallets, however I'd like to start using an HD wallet. The Electrum app on my phone is buggy and takes up too much space (I'm not sure if it's buggy for everyone or just me), so I'd like to continue using my setup. My goal is to get Electrum or Mycelium to use the other program's HD wallet as an HD wallet (I know I can manually import the keys for each address individually, but that defeats the point of having an HD wallet), is this possible?

Hey mods, I know there is a section for Electrum & Mycelium, but since it isn't about one specifically I put it here. Feel free to move it if you want.

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March 04, 2017, 10:33:15 PM
 #2

No, you can't use electrum wallet words in Mycelium HD. They would generate a different set of addresses from the same wallet words.

Electrum is unusual because it generates uncompressed private keys from wallet words. Mycelium HD, like most other wallets, generates compressed private keys from wallet words. That results in the two different wallets generating different addresses from the same wallet words.
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March 04, 2017, 11:13:37 PM
 #3

I think Electrum can handle the standard (Mycelium) seed standard too. So it should work that way around... At least that's what I think I used to do (before I bought my Trezor), but why not try it and see what you end up with? If they present the same public address you should be good to go.
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March 05, 2017, 05:14:22 PM
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I think Electrum can handle the standard (Mycelium) seed standard too. So it should work that way around... At least that's what I think I used to do (before I bought my Trezor), but why not try it and see what you end up with? If they present the same public address you should be good to go.
Guess I'll give that a try. I'll give an update with the outcome.

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March 05, 2017, 05:21:09 PM
 #5

I don't think It's possible because Electrum doesn't use BIP39 while Mycelium, Multibit HD (Desktop wallet), Ledger Nano S (hardware wallet) use them so you probably won't find much issues with those. Mycelium also supports BIP44 while Electrum only supports BIP32 If I'm not wrong.

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March 05, 2017, 07:22:15 PM
 #6

I think Electrum can handle the standard (Mycelium) seed standard too. So it should work that way around... At least that's what I think I used to do (before I bought my Trezor), but why not try it and see what you end up with? If they present the same public address you should be good to go.
Guess I'll give that a try. I'll give an update with the outcome.
Just tried it, Electrum doesn't seem to recognize the seed. Perhaps I'll just put up with Electrum being buggy or I'll might just use both.

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March 05, 2017, 09:55:00 PM
 #7

I think Electrum can handle the standard (Mycelium) seed standard too. So it should work that way around... At least that's what I think I used to do (before I bought my Trezor), but why not try it and see what you end up with? If they present the same public address you should be good to go.
Guess I'll give that a try. I'll give an update with the outcome.
Just tried it, Electrum doesn't seem to recognize the seed. Perhaps I'll just put up with Electrum being buggy or I'll might just use both.

I am guessing that you don't use passwords (not PIN) with your Trezor on MyCellium?  That was always an issue when I wanted to give MyCellium a try.  I need the hidden wallets function on my Trezor.  Just confirming that issue hasn't been "fixed" yet?

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March 06, 2017, 02:28:38 AM
 #8

I think Electrum can handle the standard (Mycelium) seed standard too. So it should work that way around... At least that's what I think I used to do (before I bought my Trezor), but why not try it and see what you end up with? If they present the same public address you should be good to go.
Guess I'll give that a try. I'll give an update with the outcome.
Just tried it, Electrum doesn't seem to recognize the seed. Perhaps I'll just put up with Electrum being buggy or I'll might just use both.

You probably have to click the options button, then check "BIP39 seed" as in shown the screenshots.











That's how I tested using a multibit hd seed in electrum, but the multibit seed generated different addresses in electrum.


This quote explains how I tested this, and why it didn't work. The same probably applies to a mycelium seed.


I tried importing my multibit HD seed into electrum, but it wouldn't let me import them until I clicked the options button, then checked "BIP39 seed". Although electrum create a wallet using my multibit HD words it didn't show the same addresses as in my multibit HD wallet. Either I did something wrong, or that technique doesn't work.

<edit>

This might be why the technique didn't work

http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/20174/export-wallet-from-multibit-to-electrum

Quote
Multibit creates addresses using compressed private key, while Electrum uses uncompressed private keys. You can't decompress key - it will change public address, not allowing you to use your coins.
Nathan047
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March 06, 2017, 03:27:52 PM
 #9

I think Electrum can handle the standard (Mycelium) seed standard too. So it should work that way around... At least that's what I think I used to do (before I bought my Trezor), but why not try it and see what you end up with? If they present the same public address you should be good to go.
Guess I'll give that a try. I'll give an update with the outcome.
Just tried it, Electrum doesn't seem to recognize the seed. Perhaps I'll just put up with Electrum being buggy or I'll might just use both.

You probably have to click the options button, then check "BIP39 seed" as in shown the screenshots.











That's how I tested using a multibit hd seed in electrum, but the multibit seed generated different addresses in electrum.


This quote explains how I tested this, and why it didn't work. The same probably applies to a mycelium seed.


I tried importing my multibit HD seed into electrum, but it wouldn't let me import them until I clicked the options button, then checked "BIP39 seed". Although electrum create a wallet using my multibit HD words it didn't show the same addresses as in my multibit HD wallet. Either I did something wrong, or that technique doesn't work.

<edit>

This might be why the technique didn't work

http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/20174/export-wallet-from-multibit-to-electrum

Quote
Multibit creates addresses using compressed private key, while Electrum uses uncompressed private keys. You can't decompress key - it will change public address, not allowing you to use your coins.

That'd be where I went wrong, it's working now. Thanks!

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March 21, 2017, 05:52:39 AM
 #10

That'd be where I went wrong, it's working now. Thanks!

Wait... so you can confirm that you managed to import a Mycelium HD wallet into Electrum by clicking the Options button, ticking the "BIP39 Seed" option and then using the Mycelium seed words in Electrum?  Huh

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March 21, 2017, 03:35:26 PM
 #11

That'd be where I went wrong, it's working now. Thanks!

Wait... so you can confirm that you managed to import a Mycelium HD wallet into Electrum by clicking the Options button, ticking the "BIP39 Seed" option and then using the Mycelium seed words in Electrum?  Huh
Yup. I guess "BIP39" is the magic work  Wink

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March 21, 2017, 07:51:03 PM
 #12

That'd be where I went wrong, it's working now. Thanks!

Wait... so you can confirm that you managed to import a Mycelium HD wallet into Electrum by clicking the Options button, ticking the "BIP39 Seed" option and then using the Mycelium seed words in Electrum?  Huh
Yup. I guess "BIP39" is the magic work  Wink

Were the addresses shown in Mycelium HD the same ones as were shown in Electrum? I thought they would be different because one wallet uses compressed keys and the other uses uncompressed keys.
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March 22, 2017, 11:44:29 AM
 #13

Were the addresses shown in Mycelium HD the same ones as were shown in Electrum? I thought they would be different because one wallet uses compressed keys and the other uses uncompressed keys.
This is what I wanted to know as well... as others have indicated that even though you can get Electrum to accept the Seed words from Mycelium, because of the whole compressed/uncompressed keys thing... The result being that Electrum ends up "generating" different keys/addresses from the same seed? Huh

However, I decided to just give it a go... downloaded Electrum onto the PC and used my Mycelium seed words (along with BIP39 seed option)...

The result: It has (re)created my wallet succesfully... all address (used and unused) match up... and it has even retrieved all the transactions! Cheesy  Grin Cool


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March 23, 2017, 01:35:32 AM
 #14

Were the addresses shown in Mycelium HD the same ones as were shown in Electrum? I thought they would be different because one wallet uses compressed keys and the other uses uncompressed keys.
This is what I wanted to know as well... as others have indicated that even though you can get Electrum to accept the Seed words from Mycelium, because of the whole compressed/uncompressed keys thing... The result being that Electrum ends up "generating" different keys/addresses from the same seed? Huh

However, I decided to just give it a go... downloaded Electrum onto the PC and used my Mycelium seed words (along with BIP39 seed option)...

The result: It has (re)created my wallet succesfully... all address (used and unused) match up... and it has even retrieved all the transactions! Cheesy  Grin Cool





Thanks for testing it out for yourself. After some googling I found out that electrum switched from using uncompressed keys to using compressed keys.

electum 1.9 (the upcoming release) will use BIP32, and therefore compressed keys

Looking at the release notes it must have been after electum 1.9.

https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/master/RELEASE-NOTES

I tested exporting a private key from electrum 2.7.17, and it began with k (which means WIF-compressed). However, when I tested exporting a private key from electrum 1.9 it began with 5 (which means uncompressed WIF).

http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1234000001802/ch04.html#_key_formats

Quote
In a newer wallet that implements compressed public keys, the private keys will only ever be exported as WIF-compressed (with a K or L prefix). If the wallet is an older implementation and does not use compressed public keys, the private keys will only ever be exported as WIF (with a 5 prefix).


I decided to test it out for myself, but I could only generate one address in mycelium. I think I have to send Bitcoins to it before it will generate another.





Importing the mycelium wallet's words into electrum generated that first address OK.





When I tested using a multibit HD seed in electrum it didn't work. Although I assumed that was due to compressed/uncompressed keys it must be due to some other problem. Ranochigo says it's because the two wallets use different seed derivation methods.


AFAIK, you can't import anything into Multibit HD and they don't adopt the same seed deviation method as Electrum.
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March 23, 2017, 09:44:21 PM
 #15

Were the addresses shown in Mycelium HD the same ones as were shown in Electrum? I thought they would be different because one wallet uses compressed keys and the other uses uncompressed keys.
This is what I wanted to know as well... as others have indicated that even though you can get Electrum to accept the Seed words from Mycelium, because of the whole compressed/uncompressed keys thing... The result being that Electrum ends up "generating" different keys/addresses from the same seed? Huh

However, I decided to just give it a go... downloaded Electrum onto the PC and used my Mycelium seed words (along with BIP39 seed option)...

The result: It has (re)created my wallet succesfully... all address (used and unused) match up... and it has even retrieved all the transactions! Cheesy  Grin Cool



Did you only have one account in your mycelium wallet, or did you have more than one? This post by torusJKL suggests electrum might only support addresses in the first account mycelium generates.




Electrum only supports the first/default wallet/account of the in BIP32 described HD wallets.
See here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0032.mediawiki




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March 25, 2017, 09:36:23 AM
 #16

Yeah... I only have the one "account" in my Mycelium wallet. I never had a need to create multiple ones.

Poking around in Electrum I don't see any obvious way to generate a 2nd account... so I'm guessing they choose to go the default only route for the following from BIP32:

Quote
An HDW is organized as several 'accounts'. Accounts are numbered, the default account ("") being number 0. Clients are not required to support more than one account - if not, they only use the default account.

So if you are in the situation where you have created multiple accounts, you'd need to find a different BIP32 compatible client, or perhaps move all your coins to the first (default) account.

NOTE: I also tried multiBit... and after it just monstered my computer and internet connection while syncing the wallet... it came up empty with different addresses... so it is doing something a little different under the hood than Electrum does.

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May 14, 2017, 11:37:34 PM
 #17

A user called Michail1 tested the procedure with multiple mycelium accounts and says it worked. You have to restore them individually using a popup asking which account you want to restore.

*snip*

I have tested with a multiple mycelium account wallet.
It will work for other accounts; however, you have to restore them individually.  Meaning, follow the process outlined prior for each account within the wallet seed.  You get a popup asking which account you want to restore.



My seed has 6 accounts.  0-5   I restored the first 4 as tests to know that it works.


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May 15, 2017, 02:56:17 AM
 #18

A user called Michail1 tested the procedure with multiple mycelium accounts and says it worked. You have to restore them individually using a popup asking which account you want to restore.

*snip*

I have tested with a multiple mycelium account wallet.
It will work for other accounts; however, you have to restore them individually.  Meaning, follow the process outlined prior for each account within the wallet seed.  You get a popup asking which account you want to restore.

http://i.imgur.com/SlOvdDF.png

My seed has 6 accounts.  0-5   I restored the first 4 as tests to know that it works.
I can confirm that this is indeed correct. Cheesy

I just created a 2nd account in Mycelium... then created a new wallet in Electrum, set the Options on the Seed input to "BIP39" and used the Mycelium seed... then on the BIP44 Account dialog, changed the 0 to a 1... and it created the same addresses as generated by 2nd account in Mycelium.

So it would appear you can indeed import multi-account Mycelium wallets into Electrum... you just have to split them all out in to separate Electrum wallets... a bit of a nuisance, but better than nothing! Wink

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