Bitcoin Forum
March 19, 2024, 02:55:48 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 26.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitcoin's Success Leading to Doom?  (Read 1247 times)
S_D (OP)
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 198
Merit: 112



View Profile
March 05, 2017, 01:51:34 PM
Last edit: March 08, 2017, 06:51:44 AM by S_D
 #1

Bitcoin's Success Leading to Doom?

So there's huge discussion still in progress about the scalability of Bitcoin and how it could be managed.

From what I understand IMO bitcoin will fail because it will get widely accepted and then no matter what fork is made, the blockchain will get huge in size to the extent of mismanagement eventually. (We cannot maintain a ledger for centuries... or can we?)

Soon there will be a cost to run node & nodes aren't being rewarded enough.

Huge Blockchain -> Stressed Nodes -> Lack of motivation to run node -> Fewer Nodes -> Centralization of voting power -> Purpose defeated

I would like to hear what other member have to say in this context.

P.S:
The curve in this chart will only keep getting steeper:
https://blockchain.info/charts/blocks-size?timespan=all



Update:

Some valid arguments made by members here:

 Disclaimer: This topic is opinion driven we are only trying to get close to a good speculation.

Free bitcoins, to reveal private key scratch here ==>>  5▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
1710816948
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1710816948

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1710816948
Reply with quote  #2

1710816948
Report to moderator
In order to achieve higher forum ranks, you need both activity points and merit points.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1710816948
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1710816948

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1710816948
Reply with quote  #2

1710816948
Report to moderator
1710816948
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1710816948

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1710816948
Reply with quote  #2

1710816948
Report to moderator
European Central Bank
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1288
Merit: 1087



View Profile
March 05, 2017, 03:12:43 PM
 #2

nodes already cost. they'll eat your entire data allowance and then some if you allow it.

and of course people will maintain a ledger if it has value.

I think it'll come to a crunch where hobbyists can't do it any more. question is whether there are richer hobbyists to continue or whether commercial entities will actively try to maintain decentralisation.

I think we'll be offered an illusion of it like Chinese mining but it would take a crisis to properly reassert it.
bravehearth0319
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1022
Merit: 500



View Profile
March 05, 2017, 04:11:32 PM
 #3

nodes already cost. they'll eat your entire data allowance and then some if you allow it.

and of course people will maintain a ledger if it has value.

I think it'll come to a crunch where hobbyists can't do it any more. question is whether there are richer hobbyists to continue or whether commercial entities will actively try to maintain decentralisation.

I think we'll be offered an illusion of it like Chinese mining but it would take a crisis to properly reassert it.
Yes that's true, nodes function is acting like a boss this is just an illustration example. And I don't think that bitcoin success leading to doom. As long as we will keep and protect the ledger or maintain due to the value it has the decentralization will continue to be apply.
dothebeats
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3584
Merit: 1352


Excel is fun


View Profile
March 05, 2017, 04:19:29 PM
 #4

nodes already cost. they'll eat your entire data allowance and then some if you allow it.

and of course people will maintain a ledger if it has value.

I think it'll come to a crunch where hobbyists can't do it any more. question is whether there are richer hobbyists to continue or whether commercial entities will actively try to maintain decentralisation.

I think we'll be offered an illusion of it like Chinese mining but it would take a crisis to properly reassert it.

Afaik it's not only hobbyists who maintain and run nodes to help the network. Miners profit very largely from bitcoins so they can create their own nodes if they want to continue earning $$$. Since miners are already running machines that consumes a lot of power 24/7/365, why won't they create their own nodes to aid there mining operations too, right? It's just a small fraction of $$$ compared to what they are earning anyways.

▄▄███████▄▄
▄██████████████▄
▄██████████████████▄
▄████▀▀▀▀███▀▀▀▀█████▄
▄█████████████▄█▀████▄
███████████▄███████████
██████████▄█▀███████████
██████████▀████████████
▀█████▄█▀█████████████▀
▀████▄▄▄▄███▄▄▄▄████▀
▀██████████████████▀
▀███████████████▀
▀▀███████▀▀
.
 MΞTAWIN  THE FIRST WEB3 CASINO   
.
.. PLAY NOW ..
Hydrogen
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2562
Merit: 1441



View Profile
March 05, 2017, 04:25:05 PM
 #5

From what I understand IMO bitcoin will fail because it will get widely accepted and then no matter what fork is made, the blockchain will get huge in size to the extent of mismanagement eventually. (We cannot maintain a ledger for centuries... or can we?)

I wonder sometimes if Moore's Law dictates transistors, network bandwidth and file space storage could grow at a faster rate than the blockchain.

If not maybe we'll have people in the future calling for optimization or compression of the blockchain similar to how people are calling for different block sizes now.

Hardware upgrades over time could solve some of these concerns.
European Central Bank
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1288
Merit: 1087



View Profile
March 05, 2017, 04:32:24 PM
 #6

I wonder sometimes if Moore's Law dictates transistors, network bandwidth and file space storage could grow at a faster rate than the blockchain.

transistors and space are easy. bandwidth is out of the user's hands. that depends on your local telecom company deciding to spend a few million upgrading.
Vaccinus
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 406
Merit: 250



View Profile
March 05, 2017, 04:39:17 PM
 #7

yeah the limit tot he block is really hurting bitcoin on the long run, do you think that average people will pay almost $1 to send $10 to their friend no way lol, there will be a day when no one will use bitcoin anymore, and just hoarding because the fee will be too expensive, how core and miners think this is good, what they are waiting to reach their consensus?

Hydrogen
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2562
Merit: 1441



View Profile
March 05, 2017, 04:44:36 PM
 #8

transistors and space are easy. bandwidth is out of the user's hands. that depends on your local telecom company deciding to spend a few million upgrading.

In the united states, there is something called a "telecommunications tax" which in theory, is spent towards maintaining and upgrading internet infrastructure.

Past politicians have likely spent telecom taxes on wars, submarine aircraft carriers or something other than its intended purpose.

Perhaps Donald Trump can get things back on track & have those taxes spent on upgrading & maintaining american internet.

Which in turn, could put pressure on foreign countries to follow suit and do the same.

Eventually everything could be fiber and FIOS.

At the moment asian countries have the best average internet speeds but maybe there's no reason the rest of the world won't catch up to them?

Which could in turn make bitcoin operations more manageable and viable?
Kprawn
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1904
Merit: 1073


View Profile
March 05, 2017, 06:46:27 PM
 #9

A lot of businesses run nodes, because their business is run on top of Bitcoin, so it makes sense to support the network. In some countries that

might be deducted from tax as a business expense.  Wink How many other businesses work in their capital invested into IT into their tax returns.  Grin

The scaling problems is only temporary and will not go on forever... be patient.  Cheesy

THE FIRST DECENTRALIZED & PLAYER-OWNED CASINO
.EARNBET..EARN BITCOIN: DIVIDENDS
FOR-LIFETIME & MUCH MORE.
. BET WITH: BTCETHEOSLTCBCHWAXXRPBNB
.JOIN US: GITLABTWITTERTELEGRAM
nikona
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500


View Profile
March 05, 2017, 07:03:21 PM
 #10

A lot of businesses run nodes, because their business is run on top of Bitcoin, so it makes sense to support the network. In some countries that

might be deducted from tax as a business expense.  Wink How many other businesses work in their capital invested into IT into their tax returns.  Grin

The scaling problems is only temporary and will not go on forever... be patient.  Cheesy
I agree, as long as it is profitable or some company is dependent or related to BTC, they will try their best to support the network because if it fails, they will lose money. I think scaling would be a problem for a month or two. Some decision has to be taken by then and I'm sure it will all be alright. Just hang in tight.
Lauda
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965


Terminated.


View Profile WWW
March 05, 2017, 07:06:37 PM
 #11

False exaggeration due to lack of understanding.

Soon there will be a cost to run node & nodes aren't being rewarded.
There is already a cost to run a node and the reward for running nodes are self incentivized, privacy and security.  Roll Eyes

Huge Blockchain > Stressed Nodes > Lack of motivation to run node > Fewer Nodes > Centralization of voting power > Purpose defeated
More users -> More wealthy users -> More smarter users who want to reap those benefits.

-snip-
I think scaling would be a problem for a month or two. Some decision has to be taken by then and I'm sure it will all be alright. Just hang in tight.
You don't know how Bitcoin works, please stop posting rubbish.

"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"
😼 Bitcoin Core (onion)
Morbid
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1202
Merit: 1015



View Profile
March 05, 2017, 07:16:05 PM
 #12

im sorry, but really getting tired here of doom threads indirectly promoting other forks..
jak3
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004


View Profile
March 05, 2017, 07:27:43 PM
 #13

i fully agree that bitcoin is moving towards the slow death and i see no way to solve this blockchain problem except of any miracle in midway or if one one pops out with a brand new mining strategy  and techniques which can extend its lifetime a bit or two, after all if it dies i have seen a great time observing what can humans do if  they get a perfect situations and a good technology
HaXX0R1337
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 252



View Profile
March 05, 2017, 08:33:56 PM
 #14

The said things might be true and it is possible it could happen and what if Satoshi envisioned all these .Let me explain he does hold a lot of coins in his arsenal and he never touched a lot of it and when a time comes he has to invest to maintain a node he might re appear again and he will make an announcement that he will be using those coins for maintaining it.

▬▬▬▬▬▬

▬▬▬▬▬▬
       ▄▄█████████▄▄
    ▄█████████████████▄
  ▄█████▀▀       ▀▀█████▄
 ▄████▀             ▀████▄
▄████▀    ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄    ▀████▄
█████    █████████    █████
█████    ████████▀    █████
█████     ▄▄▄▄        █████
▀████▄   ██████      ▄████▀
 ▀████   █████▀     ▄████▀
   ▀▀     ▄▄▄    ▄▄█████▀
         █████   █████▀
         ▀███▀    ▀▀
COMPRO
FINANCE
▬▬▬▬▬▬

▬▬▬▬▬▬
▄▄█████████▄▄
▄█████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████▄
▄████████████████▀▀█████▄
▄████████████▀▀▀    ██████▄
████████▀▀▀   ▄▀   ████████
█████▄     ▄█▀     ████████
████████▄ █▀      █████████
▀████████▌▐       ████████▀
▀████████ ▄██▄  ████████▀
▀█████████████▄███████▀
▀█████████████████▀
▀▀█████████▀▀
Lauda
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965


Terminated.


View Profile WWW
March 05, 2017, 08:36:53 PM
 #15

im sorry, but really getting tired here of doom threads indirectly promoting other forks..
Ironically, the 'other forks' solve nothing. Neither do the shitcoins that are being promoted for pumping and dumping. In fact, a lot of them have worse scalability issues.

i fully agree that bitcoin is moving towards the slow death and i see no way to solve this blockchain problem
-snip-
There is no problem. If you understood Bitcoin, you'd run a node yourself.

The said things might be true and it is possible it could happen and what if Satoshi envisioned all these .Let me explain he does hold a lot of coins in his arsenal and he never touched a lot of it and when a time comes he has to invest to maintain a node he might re appear again and he will make an announcement that he will be using those coins for maintaining it.
Stop making up bullshit.

"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"
😼 Bitcoin Core (onion)
york780
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392
Merit: 250



View Profile
March 05, 2017, 08:38:07 PM
 #16

bitcoin succes leading to doom for banks and other safe heavens.
squatz1
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666
Merit: 1285


Flying Hellfish is a Commie


View Profile
March 05, 2017, 11:32:56 PM
 #17

There is going to be a reason in order for people to run nodes if people would really like to see the mass adoption of bitcoin in the future. It's something that people do in order to help the cause of bitcoin but at this point the entire ledger is around 100GB and they don't really see a reason to waste 1/10th of a TB on my pc in order to run a node.

Some people, may want to do it out of the goodwill of their hearts, but most are going to want some sort of incentive in order to run a node so they feel like they'r at least getting something out of it in exchange for their hardware.

I feel this is the biggest issue with bitcoin today and it must be addressed.




▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄    ▄▄▄▄                  ▄▄▄   ▄▄▄▄▄        ▄▄▄▄▄   ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄    ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄   ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄   ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
 ▀████████████████▄  ████                 █████   ▀████▄    ▄████▀  ▄██████████████   ████████████▀  ▄█████████████▀  ▄█████████████▄
              ▀████  ████               ▄███▀███▄   ▀████▄▄████▀               ████   ████                ████                   ▀████
   ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█████  ████              ████   ████    ▀██████▀      ██████████████▄   ████████████▀       ████       ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄████▀
   ██████████████▀   ████            ▄███▀     ▀███▄    ████        ████        ████  ████                ████       ██████████████▀
   ████              ████████████▀  ████   ██████████   ████        ████████████████  █████████████▀      ████       ████      ▀████▄
   ▀▀▀▀              ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀   ▀▀▀▀   ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀  ▀▀▀▀        ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀   ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀        ▀▀▀▀       ▀▀▀▀        ▀▀▀▀▀

#1 CRYPTO CASINO & SPORTSBOOK
  WELCOME
BONUS
.INSTANT & FAST.
.TRANSACTION.....
.PROVABLY FAIR.
......& SECURE......
.24/7 CUSTOMER.
............SUPPORT.
BTC      |      ETH      |      LTC      |      XRP      |      XMR      |      BNB      |     more
cellard
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372
Merit: 1250


View Profile
March 06, 2017, 12:19:50 AM
 #18

nodes already cost. they'll eat your entire data allowance and then some if you allow it.

and of course people will maintain a ledger if it has value.

I think it'll come to a crunch where hobbyists can't do it any more. question is whether there are richer hobbyists to continue or whether commercial entities will actively try to maintain decentralisation.

I think we'll be offered an illusion of it like Chinese mining but it would take a crisis to properly reassert it.

If nodes become centralized run by specialist bitcoin will be dead, so its better to leave the blocksize small and have virtual gold that is expensive and slow to move rather than a centralized digital token which is valueless.

We can always have segwit + LN if stupid Jihan wants of course.
Hazir
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1596
Merit: 1005


★Nitrogensports.eu★


View Profile
March 06, 2017, 12:42:11 AM
 #19

the blockchain will get huge in size to the extent of mismanagement eventually. (We cannot maintain a ledger for centuries... or can we?)
If the size of the blockchain is your main concern then you are worrying to much.

1. Moore's law reduces storage costs. Blockchain size is now 113GB. By the time it will be terabytes, terabytes won't be expensive at all.
2. Maintaining a node is far, far less expensive that run any forum of banking database and it will forever be that way.
3. Vast majority of users don't need to run a full node. We have SPV wallets easily accessible for anyone.


           █████████████████     ████████
          █████████████████     ████████
         █████████████████     ████████
        █████████████████     ████████
       ████████              ████████
      ████████              ████████
     ████████     ███████  ████████     ████████
    ████████     █████████████████     ████████
   ████████     █████████████████     ████████
  ████████     █████████████████     ████████
 ████████     █████████████████     ████████
████████     ████████  ███████     ████████
            ████████              ████████
           ████████              ████████
          ████████     █████████████████
         ████████     █████████████████
        ████████     █████████████████
       ████████     █████████████████
▄▄
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██     
██
██
▬▬ THE LARGEST & MOST TRUSTED ▬▬
      BITCOIN SPORTSBOOK     
   ▄▄
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██     
██
██
             ▄▄▄▄▀▀▀▀▄
     ▄▄▄▄▀▀▀▀        ▀▄▄▄▄          
▄▀▀▀▀                 █   ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄▄
█                    ▀▄          █
 █   ▀▌     ██▄        █          █              
 ▀▄        ▐████▄       █        █
  █        ███████▄     ▀▄       █
   █      ▐████▄█████████████████████▄
   ▀▄     ███████▀                  ▀██
    █      ▀█████    ▄▄        ▄▄    ██
     █       ▀███   ████      ████   ██
     ▀▄        ██    ▀▀        ▀▀    ██
      █        ██        ▄██▄        ██
       █       ██        ▀██▀        ██
       ▀▄      ██    ▄▄        ▄▄    ██
        █      ██   ████      ████   ██
         █▄▄▄▄▀██    ▀▀        ▀▀    ██
               ██▄                  ▄██
                ▀████████████████████▀




  CASINO  ●  DICE  ●  POKER  
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
   24 hour Customer Support   

▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
valta4065
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 826
Merit: 500


Join @Bountycloud for the best bounties!


View Profile
March 06, 2017, 01:43:21 AM
 #20

Agreed.

There is indeed a huge problem. BTC price and adoption can't just continue to rise.
Not with the current structure of btc network.
I already pay 50cents fee for every transaction, I'm not going to pay 2 fuckng dollars for that ><

    █▄       ▄                                            ████     ▐███▌                                               
    ▐████▄ ▄██                                           █████     ████▌                                               
    ▐█████████▌                                          █████     ████                                                
▄▄▄▄▄███████  ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄                                   █████    █████                                 █████          
  ▀█████▀▀  ▄██████████▄                   ████     ▄██████████████████████                             █████          
    ▀▀  ▄▄██████████████                  █████     ██████████████████████                             ▄█████          
    ▄██████▀██▀█████████     ▄██████   ▄██████████      ████     █████          ▄████████    ▄██████▄  █████  █████    
    █████▀▀ ▀▀ ▀██████    ▄███████████ ███████████     ▐████     █████       ▄███████████  ██████████  ██████████████  
    ███████ █ ██████    ▄█████▀ ▐█████  ▐█████         █████     █████      ▄██████▀ ████ █████▀  ▀██  ██████████████  
    █████▄  ▄ ▄▄██████▌ ██████████████  ██████    ██████████████████████▄ ▄█████    █████ ████████     █████    █████  
   ▐██████ ██ █████████ ████████████    █████▌    ▀██████████████████████ █████    ██████  ██████████ ▄████▀   ▄█████  
   ████████████████████ ██████          █████          ████     █████     █████▄  ███████      ██████ █████    ██████  
   ██████████████████   █████████████  ████████      ▄████    ▐████▌     ██████████████  ███████████ █████    █████   
   ████████████████▀      ██████████     ███████▀     ████▀     ████▌     ████████▌ ███  ▀████████   █████    █████   
                                                                                                                       
|
    Bet on Future Blocks & Earn a Passive Income   
             Supports Bitcoin, Ethereum, EOS and more!             
   🎰 Play Lottery
🎲 Play Dice
🍀Get Referral Bonus
    ▄████████▄
  █████▀█▀██████
 ████▄  ▄  ▀█████
██████▌ ▀▀▀ ▄████▌
██████▌ ███  ████▌
 ████      ▄▄████
  █████▄█▄█████▀
    ▀▀██████▀▀
    ▄▄███████▄
  ▄█████████████
 █████████▀ ▀▀███▄
▐███▌   ▀    ▐████
▐████        █████
 █████▀    ▄█████▀
  ▀█████████████
    ▀▀███████▀
   ▄▄███████▄▄
 ▄█████████████▄
▄████████▀▀   ███
████▀▀  ▄█▀  ████
██▄▄ ▄█▀     ████
▀█████      █████
 ▀████▄███▄ ███▀
    ▀███████▀
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!