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Author Topic: Using mathamatical proofs as currency backing  (Read 1943 times)
nx2059
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November 17, 2010, 03:03:18 AM
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I don't know if this has been brought up, but one possible currency backing would be proofs to unsolved math problems.   Proofs to non trivial theorems have an intrinsic value, but also are completely abstract and can be stored and secured digitally.   Proofs can be used to help solve math/sci/engineering problems.  If Alice is writing a piece of software and needs proof of correctness.   She could go to an anonymous bitcoin exchange to buy the proof she needs.  The HOL theorem prover uses scripts written in the ML programming language to represent proofs.   This system could be used for checking proofs.   http://hol.sf.net
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FreeMoney
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November 17, 2010, 03:04:21 AM
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Proofs are cool for sure. But I don't see how they can be money since you still have them after you 'spend' them.

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November 17, 2010, 04:51:43 AM
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Novel idea, but I'd be concerned about counterfeiting.

I'd rep+ for thinking outside the box if we had rep!  Grin

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November 17, 2010, 09:12:19 AM
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Impressive how people are so concerned about "backing" money with something... you're missing the point.

And by the way, nothing has inherent value. Wink

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November 17, 2010, 09:38:53 AM
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Proofs are cool for sure. But I don't see how they can be money since you still have them after you 'spend' them.

I usually have proof that I spent money because my wife is wearing a new dress lol.
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November 17, 2010, 11:27:19 AM
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Proofs are cool for sure. But I don't see how they can be money since you still have them after you 'spend' them.

I usually have proof that I spent money because my wife is wearing a new dress lol.
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November 17, 2010, 01:07:02 PM
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You got that right, caveden.  It took me about three weeks to get over the "concern" with currency backing and the whole intrinsic vs. extrinsic debate, but I finally GOT IT and now i almost lose my temper every time i have to go over the concept with other economists, traders, and even developers.  Paper currency notes have no intrinsic value (without considering the law and gov't payment preference).

Until we can use molecular transport pods to send a gold coin across the internet, decentralized P2P money will gyrate towards reusable proof-of-work methodologies.

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nx2059
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November 17, 2010, 07:10:20 PM
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Impressive how people are so concerned about "backing" money with something... you're missing the point.

And by the way, nothing has inherent value. Wink

The point of backing the bitcoin with proofs is that it is a digital "product" and thus totally anonymous.  As of now, I would not use bitcoins because I can't exchange them for anything of value without risking breaking the law.  However a completely digital exchange can be done with much better security.  Unfortunately, proofs don't have much of a market right now.   
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November 17, 2010, 07:30:45 PM
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Impressive how people are so concerned about "backing" money with something... you're missing the point.

And by the way, nothing has inherent value. Wink

The point of backing the bitcoin with proofs is that it is a digital "product" and thus totally anonymous.  As of now, I would not use bitcoins because I can't exchange them for anything of value without risking breaking the law.  However a completely digital exchange can be done with much better security.  Unfortunately, proofs don't have much of a market right now.   

I don't know where you live, but it hardly matters. You cannot live any kind of life whatsoever without guaranteeing that you will break the law at some point.

Even if you pay taxes on that haircut that you bartered with you your neighbor you are probably in violation of zoning laws.

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nx2059
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November 17, 2010, 07:45:45 PM
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Impressive how people are so concerned about "backing" money with something... you're missing the point.

And by the way, nothing has inherent value. Wink

The point of backing the bitcoin with proofs is that it is a digital "product" and thus totally anonymous.  As of now, I would not use bitcoins because I can't exchange them for anything of value without risking breaking the law.  However a completely digital exchange can be done with much better security.  Unfortunately, proofs don't have much of a market right now.   

I don't know where you live, but it hardly matters. You cannot live any kind of life whatsoever without guaranteeing that you will break the law at some point.

Even if you pay taxes on that haircut that you bartered with you your neighbor you are probably in violation of zoning laws.


This is a strawman argument you are presenting.  The if the feds consider what you are doing as a threat to their power they will send you to pound you in the ass prison.  Still feeling brave?
FreeMoney
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November 17, 2010, 08:11:11 PM
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Impressive how people are so concerned about "backing" money with something... you're missing the point.

And by the way, nothing has inherent value. Wink

The point of backing the bitcoin with proofs is that it is a digital "product" and thus totally anonymous.  As of now, I would not use bitcoins because I can't exchange them for anything of value without risking breaking the law.  However a completely digital exchange can be done with much better security.  Unfortunately, proofs don't have much of a market right now.   

I don't know where you live, but it hardly matters. You cannot live any kind of life whatsoever without guaranteeing that you will break the law at some point.

Even if you pay taxes on that haircut that you bartered with you your neighbor you are probably in violation of zoning laws.


This is a strawman argument you are presenting.  The if the feds consider what you are doing as a threat to their power they will send you to pound you in the ass prison.  Still feeling brave?

Yes still brave.

Sorry, I assumed you were suggesting that we should try to follow all laws follow all laws. Do you have a procedure for determining which ones they will enforce?

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November 17, 2010, 08:22:51 PM
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This is a strawman argument you are presenting.  The if the feds consider what you are doing as a threat to their power they will send you to pound you in the ass prison.  Still feeling brave?
Being as scared as you are of doing anything wrong and being punished, you're a model citizen for your government Smiley


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November 17, 2010, 08:26:04 PM
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Do you have a procedure for determining which ones they will enforce?

Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.

If history of government tells us anything about the future, it tells us that they will enforce whichever laws were violated by those they wish to persecute.  It's not about the law, it's about control.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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November 17, 2010, 08:26:41 PM
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This is a strawman argument you are presenting.  The if the feds consider what you are doing as a threat to their power they will send you to pound you in the ass prison.  Still feeling brave?
Being as scared as you are of doing anything wrong and being punished, you're a model citizen for your government Smiley


Amen, brother.  Welcome to the front lines of the Agora.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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November 17, 2010, 11:41:35 PM
 #15

Impressive how people are so concerned about "backing" money with something... you're missing the point.

And by the way, nothing has inherent value. Wink

The point of backing the bitcoin with proofs is that it is a digital "product" and thus totally anonymous.  As of now, I would not use bitcoins because I can't exchange them for anything of value without risking breaking the law.  However a completely digital exchange can be done with much better security.  Unfortunately, proofs don't have much of a market right now.   

I don't know where you live, but it hardly matters. You cannot live any kind of life whatsoever without guaranteeing that you will break the law at some point.

Even if you pay taxes on that haircut that you bartered with you your neighbor you are probably in violation of zoning laws.


This is a strawman argument you are presenting.  The if the feds consider what you are doing as a threat to their power they will send you to pound you in the ass prison.  Still feeling brave?


If you are that scared you are already in prison - only the government is already "pounding you in the ass".
FreeMoney
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November 17, 2010, 11:51:08 PM
 #16


If you are that scared you are already in prison - only the government is already "pounding you in the ass".

Well said.

I'm trying to get myself into prison. I'm trying to get myself out.

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kiba
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November 18, 2010, 01:36:04 AM
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No one say it'll be easy to fight against authorities for the right of self-determination in economic and social affair. It takes some bravery, some discipline, and absolute moral clarity.

Liberty is not without cost.

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November 21, 2010, 07:07:39 AM
 #18

Impressive how people are so concerned about "backing" money with something... you're missing the point.

And by the way, nothing has inherent value. Wink

The point of backing the bitcoin with proofs is that it is a digital "product" and thus totally anonymous.  As of now, I would not use bitcoins because I can't exchange them for anything of value without risking breaking the law.  However a completely digital exchange can be done with much better security.  Unfortunately, proofs don't have much of a market right now.   

what law would you be breaking by buying something with bitcoins as they are now? (and while you are at it, let us know what country you are in).

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