Bitcoin Forum
April 30, 2024, 08:23:07 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Why bitcoin can't survive as it is  (Read 2387 times)
wingding (OP)
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 770
Merit: 504



View Profile
April 20, 2013, 04:53:07 PM
 #1

As most people in this forum I have great hopes for cryptocurrencies. However I just cannot see how bitcoin can achieve mainstream adaptation, because:

Broad adaptation would require >50 million users and market cap>20 billion usd
It must happen over a period of 2-3 years
But practically all bitcoins for that period are already produced and posessed
Some magic kind of distribution must take place - that wont happen!

Bitcoins will remain a sandbox for speculators and kids unless something is done.

One solution is proposed here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=181488.0
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1714465387
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714465387

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714465387
Reply with quote  #2

1714465387
Report to moderator
1714465387
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714465387

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714465387
Reply with quote  #2

1714465387
Report to moderator
1714465387
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714465387

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714465387
Reply with quote  #2

1714465387
Report to moderator
demzie
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 266
Merit: 250



View Profile
April 20, 2013, 04:54:41 PM
 #2

Hmmzz, why are you even posting on this forum then?
Sell and go home!
Mausini
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 177
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 04:56:31 PM
 #3

go educate yourself  Shocked
wachtwoord
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 04:57:39 PM
 #4

I think you are wrong, but go ahead and give your deflationary fork a go. I'll stick with Bitcoin.
blockbet.net
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112
Merit: 10


Admin at blockbet.net


View Profile WWW
April 20, 2013, 05:21:46 PM
 #5

What's the deal with all these Jr members who have registered a few weeks ago coming here to tell us why Bitcoin doesn't work or what Bitcoin needs to do? Huh

Bitcoin Sports Betting online at www.blockbet.net, featuring NBA, NHL, UFC, football (soccer) and international competitions. Fast payouts directly to your wallet, great win odds, no need to register or deposit. Bet in just a few clicks now!
lettucebee
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 250


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 05:25:18 PM
 #6

What will change is the price will go way, way up.  People who got into bitcoin early will be noveau riche and will look to trade bitcoin for things they value, land, cars, food, whatever.  That is how bitcoins will change hands.


▄██████████████████▄
▄██████████████████████▄
█████▀              ▀█████
▄████▀    ▄▄▄▄▄▄        ▀████▄
▀█████▄    ▀█████▄     ▄█████▀
▀█████▄    ▀█████▄ ▄█████▀
█▄  ▀█████▄    ▀█████████▀  ▄█
██▄  ▀█████▄    ▀█████▀  ▄██
███▄  ▀█████▄    ▀█▀  ▄███
▀███▄  ▀█████▄     ▄███▀
▀████▄  ▀████▀  ▄████▀
█████▄  ▀▀  ▄█████
▀█████▄  ▄█████▀
▀█████  █████▀
▀████████▀
██████
▀██▀
E R N
               ▄▄█████████▄▄
           ▄▄█████████████████▄▄
        ▄███████▀▀       ▀▀███████▄
       █████▀▀               ▀▀█████
     ▄████▀    ▄▄█████████▄▄    ▀████▄
    ████▀   ▄█████████████████▄   ▀████
   ████    █████████████████████    ████
 █████    ███████  ▀█████████████    █████
█████    █████████    ▀███████████    █████
████    ▄██████████▄     ▀████████▄    ████
████    █████████████       ███████    ████
████    ▀██████████▀     ▄████████▀    ████
█████    █████████    ▄███████████    █████
 █████    ███████  ▄█████████████    █████
           █████████████████████
            ▀█████████████████▀
               ▀▀█████████▀▀
████
████

████
████

████
████

████
████
TOKEN SALE
AIRDROP
                              ████
                              ████

                              ████
          ████            ████  ████

          ████            ████  ████
          ████  ████  ████  ████  ████

████  ████  ████  ████  ████  ████  ████
████  ████  ████  ████  ████  ████  ████
  ▬▬   GET IN TOUCH   ▬▬ 
TELEGRAM  FACEBOOK  TWITTER
YOUTUBE   INSTAGRAM
acoindr
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 05:26:39 PM
 #7

What's the deal with all these Jr members who have registered a few weeks ago coming here to tell us why Bitcoin doesn't work or what Bitcoin needs to do? Huh

Growing pains. Expect a lot more.
demzie
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 266
Merit: 250



View Profile
April 20, 2013, 05:28:47 PM
 #8

What's the deal with all these Jr members who have registered a few weeks ago coming here to tell us why Bitcoin doesn't work or what Bitcoin needs to do? Huh

Well, even though im against the TS, i'm a reader and BTC user.. Other places... That Jr member statement shit is bullshit.. hehe Wink
franky1
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4200
Merit: 4450



View Profile
April 20, 2013, 05:41:18 PM
 #9

the reason for the post is that the guy has probably premined his blockchain and wants to make bitcoin sound bad to get some free advertising for his coin.

what he doesn't realise is FIAT can take days to transfer. yet shops accept it instantly. why? because they use escrow services. we commonly call these FIAT escrow services banks or credit cards. but hell... i can think of many other methods to get around the confirmation times.

bitcoin does not need to change. its the infrustructure around it such as bitpay and mtgox that should change to streamline the small/instant transactions.

take starbucks. if they open a mtgox account and start accepting MTGOX codes. then customers simply deposit a daily amount into mtgox while taking their morning shower and then its fully confirmed to make codes with by the time they walked to a starbucks.  bish bash bosh.. instant transaction with confirmed funds. no waiting around

it doesnt have to be mtgox. i purely used mtgox accounting system as a example of a system already inplace

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
bg002h
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1463
Merit: 1047


I outlived my lifetime membership:)


View Profile WWW
April 20, 2013, 05:45:55 PM
 #10

Oh. You're right. PM me your address.

Hardforks aren't that hard. It’s getting others to use them that's hard.
1GCDzqmX2Cf513E8NeThNHxiYEivU1Chhe
Gabi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008


If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 05:50:40 PM
 #11

What's the deal with all these Jr members who have registered a few weeks ago coming here to tell us why Bitcoin doesn't work or what Bitcoin needs to do? Huh
It is the Eternal September

bozak
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 120
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 05:54:53 PM
 #12

As most people in this forum I have great hopes for cryptocurrencies. However I just cannot see how bitcoin can achieve mainstream adaptation, because:

Broad adaptation would require >50 million users and market cap>20 billion usd
It must happen over a period of 2-3 years
But practically all bitcoins for that period are already produced and posessed
Some magic kind of distribution must take place - that wont happen!

Bitcoins will remain a sandbox for speculators and kids unless something is done.

One solution is proposed here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=181488.0


Magic distribution process?  Hmm, like buying/selling bitcoin on an exchange for other currencies?  Not exactly what I would call magic, and certainly not a problem.   
foggyb
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 1006


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 05:54:58 PM
 #13



it doesnt have to be mtgox. i purely used mtgox accounting system as a example of a system already inplace

MTGOX doesn't do codes anymore
Este Nuno
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 826
Merit: 1000


amarha


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 05:56:54 PM
 #14

As most people in this forum I have great hopes for cryptocurrencies. However I just cannot see how bitcoin can achieve mainstream adaptation, because:

Broad adaptation would require >50 million users and market cap>20 billion usd
It must happen over a period of 2-3 years

This isn't exactly impossible at this point. At all really.

Quote
But practically all bitcoins for that period are already produced and posessed
Some magic kind of distribution must take place - that wont happen!

This is wrong, irrelevant, and silly.
Mylon
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 100

Mining FTW


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 06:15:24 PM
 #15

looking at this guys older posts... people have been trying to explain to him how bitcoin works... looks like he is just refusing to understand it... and really want to get his early coins... so sad... (me is still sitting here very happy finding out about it in 2013, instead of 2016, or 2020)

"All Your Base Are Belong To Us" by CATS
wheatstone
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 82
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 06:26:50 PM
 #16

Dear {NewToBitcoin},

If you want anyone to take you seriously, you really must author a competent message, which includes an explanation of why {HorribleProblem(s)WithBitcoin} is indeed a problem at all. If you really want to make a quality contribution, do a quick search for similar objections and if your mind is still not changed, please include a few rebuttals to the most common objections to {HorribleProblem(s)WithBitcoin}.


It must happen over a period of 2-3 years

Why?

But practically all bitcoins for that period are already produced and posessed
Some magic kind of distribution must take place - that wont happen!

Coins are redistributed all the time. It's called spending and whether users spend their coins to buy fiat or "normal" goods, coins change hands. If it makes you happy, you are free to consider this process "magical".

That's admittedly a bit of a glib answer and is easily objected to, so I will follow my own advice from above and counter the most obvious object that while there are plenty of transactions, it's predominately the same coins over and over while the "old coin" remains unspent.

For an idea of how many "old" coins are actually spent, try taking a look at blockchain.info's "bitcoin days destroyed" and filter it by "min age 1 year":

http://blockchain.info/charts/bitcoin-days-destroyed-min-year

(use the 7-day average to more easily evaluate the area under the curve).

For reference, bitcoin days destroyed is defined as (input size) * (input age), with units of bitcoins and days, respectively. Thus, a 10 bitcoin spend of a 1 year old input would equal 3650 bitcoin days destroyed. The average per day this year has been around 4 MILLION bitcoin days destroyed.

The coinciding peak with the exchange rate seems to indicate a substantial number of "old coins" being converted to fiat, resulting in some nice profits for those early adopters and some "magical" redistribution for you.
acoindr
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 06:44:55 PM
 #17

^ apparently not all Jr. members are created equally  Smiley
wingding (OP)
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 770
Merit: 504



View Profile
April 20, 2013, 06:55:45 PM
 #18

What's the deal with all these Jr members who have registered a few weeks ago coming here to tell us why Bitcoin doesn't work or what Bitcoin needs to do? Huh

I have been in bitcoin since mid 2012. I have made some good money on it, and still have some coins. I have been investing in the stock market for more than 20 years before that.  I understand the basic principles of the technology, and I definitely understand market mechanisms and its dynamics. I share the facination for bitcoins and Satoshi's breakthrogh with most of you guys. But I believe the issues I try raise here are very important for bitcoin's future, and the kind of responses I get does not change that, it only disappoints me.
TheKoziTwo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1552
Merit: 1047



View Profile
April 20, 2013, 07:03:41 PM
 #19

Broad adaptation would require >50 million users and market cap>20 billion usd
It must happen over a period of 2-3 years
But practically all bitcoins for that period are already produced and posessed
Some magic kind of distribution must take place - that wont happen!

Bitcoins will remain a sandbox for speculators and kids unless something is done.

One solution is proposed here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=181488.0

nwbitcoin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294
Merit: 250


You are a geek if you are too early to the party!


View Profile WWW
April 20, 2013, 07:27:23 PM
 #20

As most people in this forum I have great hopes for cryptocurrencies. However I just cannot see how bitcoin can achieve mainstream adaptation, because:

Broad adaptation would require >50 million users and market cap>20 billion usd
It must happen over a period of 2-3 years
But practically all bitcoins for that period are already produced and posessed
Some magic kind of distribution must take place - that wont happen!

Bitcoins will remain a sandbox for speculators and kids unless something is done.

One solution is proposed here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=181488.0

I always find the way people come up with their idea of the future very interesting, but remarkable limited.

The figures above are very limited because they don't mean anything - even the time scale is a nonsense.

Why not start again, with some kind of big picture guidance of how technology moves into the mainstream?

The most interesting indicator I can highlight is the theory to commodity timescale. Most products that become life changing (these are things like cars, microwave ovens, mobile phones, computers etc) take around 30 years.

Software is quicker to make it, but you are still looking at 10 years for a radical software concept to go from version 0.1 to 'everyone' using it!

So, next issue - people numbers.

Who is going to use bitcoin?  Only Americans? Only the US and the EU? Maybe the whole of the world who currently have mobile phones?
50 million users is what exactly? people who own a bitcoin or a bit of a bitcoin? We are probably close to at least 2-3 million people who are in that box already.  Look at the forum growth for an indicator of where we are today - its going to take far longer than 3 years!

I was one of the first 1% of internet users and it was lonely, but slowly, we grew to what we have today! - For bitcoin to make a dent in the real world, we just need people to not give up using it.  This isn't exclusively using bitcoin - its just the number of people with the means to use a bitcoin to make a sale.


Finally, the killer point that needs to be understood - bitcoin is just an experiment in crypto currencies.  Its very unlikely that bitcoin will ever become the big alternative digital currency by itself!  It will however help people understand the concept so that they will feel more comfortable when they use Litecoins, PPCoins and whatever Altcoin we find that can do whatever flaw kills bitcoin.

This is a very long game, and I would be looking at 2020 before you will be surprised when you DON'T see bitcoin or other altcoin in the same list as Paypal on every website.

As for you big worry about no trading going on, it takes time to convince people the price isn't going to go up any further and its safe to start spending.  That will be the magic that makes it start happening! Smiley


*Image Removed*
I use Localbitcoins to sell bitcoins for GBP by bank transfer!
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!