Questions from a beginner

[xaioret]

Hi, I have some question that I didnt find the answer anywhere

which code decides the difficulty of mining?

can this code be changed?

if yes, by who?

the 21 million is really a limit or theres some change on the code that can allow lower difficulty and more mining?

Kind Regards

[unamis76]

I don't know code good enough to point you to the exact portion of code that decides the dificulty, but maybe this is of some help.

This code can be changed by anyone, as this is open source software.

The 21 million is indeed a coded limit. Without it, it wouldn't really be Bitcoin. You can change that, however, as seen in multiple altcoins.

BTW, there's a section for beginner questions... Although this would probably fit better the Technical Discussion section.

[xaioret]

I dont get it, if it can be changed how is "limited by code"?

[AgentofCoin]

...
The 21 million is indeed a coded limit. Without it, it wouldn't really be Bitcoin. You can change that, however, as seen in multiple altcoins.
...

No. The 21 million coins is not within the code, but is the the result of the code.
For example, as coins are released and the halvings take place over time,
eventually in 2140, no more coins can be released. It is estimated that the
total number of coins that will be released over time will be about 20,999,949.

[xaioret]

i understand that reward is halfing but it can be changed by someone?

the ones writting the code can make something to lower the difficulty of mining?

or they can change the code increasing the reward?

if no, why?

[AgentofCoin]

the ones writting the code can make something to lower the difficulty of mining?

they can change the reward?

if no, why?

Yes, they can to all, but then Node operators must choose to use that new code.
For the new code to be added, it must first reach consensus to be changed.

If they make certain changes without consensus or Nodes using it, they may split
off from the primary chain.

[DannyHamilton]

The code is all open source.  You can read it, and you can change it.

The difficult part is getting other people to agree to use your new code.

Every node on the network checks EVERY transaction and EVERY block to make sure they don't break any of the consensus rules.

If you create your own software that increases the reward for a block that you mine, or reduces the difficulty of the block that you mine, then EVERY node and EVERY miner in the world will simply reject your block as being "invalid" according to the rules in THEIR code. Bitcoin works because there is a consensus reached by all the nodes running the software.  In order to change bitcoin, you need to convince an overwhelming majority of all users (nodes, miners, merchants, exchanges, etc) to ALL use your code so you can form a new consensus.

51% isn't enough.  With that, you would just split the blockchain into "original bitcoin" and "xaioret bitcoin" forks.  If you want to actually change bitcoin, you need an overwhelming majority.  Much closer to 90%.

[xaioret]

The code is all open source.  You can read it, and you can change it.

The difficult part is getting other people to agree to use your new code.

Every node on the network checks EVERY transaction and EVERY block to make sure they don't break any of the consensus rules.

If you create your own software that increases the reward for a block that you mine, or reduces the difficulty of the block that you mine, then EVERY node and EVERY miner in the world will simply reject your block as being "invalid" according to the rules in THEIR code. Bitcoin works because there is a consensus reached by all the nodes running the software.  In order to change bitcoin, you need to convince an overwhelming majority of all users (nodes, miners, merchants, exchanges, etc) to ALL use your code so you can form a new consensus.

51% isn't enough.  With that, you would just split the blockchain into "original bitcoin" and "xaioret bitcoin" forks.  If you want to actually change bitcoin, you need an overwhelming majority.  Much closer to 90%.

so if "reaches consensus" it can be created more than 21 million bitcoin?

you can estimate how many people need to agree to make such a thing?

if the coders and the nodes decide that theres nothing the "regular user" can do?

even with many nodes it will always be a very tiny % compared to all the regular users so its something very crucial that can be changed by a minority, isnt it?

[DannyHamilton]

so if "reaches consensus" it can be created more than 21 million bitcoin?

Yes.  If you can convince me, and all the other people who will NEVER agree with you to all run your code, then you can have more than 21 million bitcoins.  There are far too many people that would rather see bitcoin collapse and fail than increase that limit.  It isn't going to happen.

you can estimate how many people need to agree to make such a thing?

No.  It doesn't matter.  There are MANY that won't agree.  It isn't going to happen.

if the coders and the nodes decide that theres nothing the "regular user" can do?

The regular user can refuse to use the new software.  They can refuse to do business with merchants that use the new software. They can refuse to use exchanges that use the new software.

Merchants and exchanges need to make a profit.  If the users refuse to do business with them, they will switch back to the software the users want them to use.

The regular user can also run a node to enforce the current rules so that the miners will be afraid to change software.  If a miner (or mining pool) mines a block that the nodes reject they lose all the bitcoins that they mined.

even with many nodes it will always be a very tiny % compared to all the regular users so its something very crucial that can be changed by a minority, isnt it?

No. It can not be changed by a minority.  It requires an overwhelming majority.  It isn't going to happen.

[xaioret]

so I am assuming that this 21 million limit which is sold to the general public as a "golden rule" is not as golden

if  reaches consensus it can be changed so bitcoin is just like any government money, government money is printed with "reached consensus" also (considering that democracy is a consensus)

bitcoin is sold to general public as something that will never have the same inflation as government money but it works the same if can be changed with "consensus"

the argument that "people who have bitcoin they will not agree to print more bitcoin" does not make sense and is a fallacy

government also have a lot of money so they would never print more of this money  if this logic was true

and when I talk about "regular user" I mean the everyday normal guy, someone who doesnt even know what a Node is

so majority of Nodes is still a very very minority of all people who uses bitcoin

[calkob]

Hi, I have some question that I didnt find the answer anywhere

which code decides the difficulty of mining?

can this code be changed?

if yes, by who?

the 21 million is really a limit or theres some change on the code that can allow lower difficulty and more mining?

Kind Regards

The code within the bitcoin Client is what decides the consensus rules.  Anything in bitcoin can be changed, but that does not mean it will be or should be.  The 21,000,000 bitcoin is a rule that will never change, i have never even heard of an argument for it being changed, although i am sure there is some idiot out there.  Changing the limit on the amount of bitcoin would devalue all current bitcoins.

[ebliever]

so I am assuming that this 21 million limit which is sold to the general public as a "golden rule" is not as golden

if  reaches consensus it can be changed so bitcoin is just like any government money, government money is printed with "reached consensus" also (considering that democracy is a consensus)

bitcoin is sold to general public as something that will never have the same inflation as government money but it works the same if can be changed with "consensus"

the argument that "people who have bitcoin they will not agree to print more bitcoin" does not make sense and is a fallacy

government also have a lot of money so they would never print more of this money  if this logic was true

and when I talk about "regular user" I mean the everyday normal guy, someone who doesnt even know what a Node is

so majority of Nodes is still a very very minority of all people who uses bitcoin

For the last two years the bitcoin community has been locked into a civil war over the best way to increase transaction capacity, which has no (direct) bearing on the economics of bitcoin. Diluting bitcoins by changing the 21 million limit would create a firestorm a hundred times greater. But that won't happen because virtually no one is dumb enough to propose such a thing, and they will be ignored/reviled if they did.

We have a track record now of 8 years and counting, which shows that bitcoin is far more conservative than fiat currency issued by central banks when it comes to any consideration of jacking with the monetary supply. That should give people some confidence. I know that if anyone ever does get traction demanding a change in the 21 million coins, I'm going to rush to the exits - and trying to beat the general stampede to do the same, which means my tolerance for such talk is going to be pretty low.

[xaioret]

Hi, I have some question that I didnt find the answer anywhere

which code decides the difficulty of mining?

can this code be changed?

if yes, by who?

the 21 million is really a limit or theres some change on the code that can allow lower difficulty and more mining?

Kind Regards

The code within the bitcoin Client is what decides the consensus rules.  Anything in bitcoin can be changed, but that does not mean it will be or should be.  The 21,000,000 bitcoin is a rule that will never change, i have never even heard of an argument for it being changed, although i am sure there is some idiot out there.  Changing the limit on the amount of bitcoin would devalue all current bitcoins.

Yes it devalues

So why government prints money if it devalues the currency that he "government" has?

The politicians all have a lot of government money themselfs so why they allow to print more if their money will be devalued?

Have you never thought about it?

Increasing the monetary base is very good for the people with lots of this money eventhough it devalues the money, it gives more good things than bad things to the ones with power over this money

If this "21 million rule" can be broken it will be, who says the opposite doesnt know enough of Economics

I am sad because I thought there was some way to prevent this and really ensure that 21 million will be the limit, but with your answers I am very pessimistic about the future of bitcoin now

Wont buy it

[Hatcher]

so I am assuming that this 21 million limit which is sold to the general public as a "golden rule" is not as golden

if  reaches consensus it can be changed so bitcoin is just like any government money, government money is printed with "reached consensus" also (considering that democracy is a consensus)

bitcoin is sold to general public as something that will never have the same inflation as government money but it works the same if can be changed with "consensus"

the argument that "people who have bitcoin they will not agree to print more bitcoin" does not make sense and is a fallacy

government also have a lot of money so they would never print more of this money  if this logic was true

and when I talk about "regular user" I mean the everyday normal guy, someone who doesnt even know what a Node is

so majority of Nodes is still a very very minority of all people who uses bitcoin

Consensus is not a trivial issue: the network hash rate is spread across the globe with many large mining operations having different ideals. If you want consensus, you have to convince (an overwhelming majority of) these various mining factories to change their method of operation to agree with you.

[xaioret]

so I am assuming that this 21 million limit which is sold to the general public as a "golden rule" is not as golden

if  reaches consensus it can be changed so bitcoin is just like any government money, government money is printed with "reached consensus" also (considering that democracy is a consensus)

bitcoin is sold to general public as something that will never have the same inflation as government money but it works the same if can be changed with "consensus"

the argument that "people who have bitcoin they will not agree to print more bitcoin" does not make sense and is a fallacy

government also have a lot of money so they would never print more of this money  if this logic was true

and when I talk about "regular user" I mean the everyday normal guy, someone who doesnt even know what a Node is

so majority of Nodes is still a very very minority of all people who uses bitcoin

Consensus is not a trivial issue: the network hash rate is spread across the globe with many large mining operations having different ideals. If you want consensus, you have to convince (an overwhelming majority of) these various mining factories to change their method of operation to agree with you.

So if is good for the miners and all of miners agree they can "print" as many bitcoins as they want

Right?

Seems to me exactly the same as government money

[Hatcher]

so I am assuming that this 21 million limit which is sold to the general public as a "golden rule" is not as golden

if  reaches consensus it can be changed so bitcoin is just like any government money, government money is printed with "reached consensus" also (considering that democracy is a consensus)

bitcoin is sold to general public as something that will never have the same inflation as government money but it works the same if can be changed with "consensus"

the argument that "people who have bitcoin they will not agree to print more bitcoin" does not make sense and is a fallacy

government also have a lot of money so they would never print more of this money  if this logic was true

and when I talk about "regular user" I mean the everyday normal guy, someone who doesnt even know what a Node is

so majority of Nodes is still a very very minority of all people who uses bitcoin

Consensus is not a trivial issue: the network hash rate is spread across the globe with many large mining operations having different ideals. If you want consensus, you have to convince (an overwhelming majority of) these various mining factories to change their method of operation to agree with you.

So if is good for the miners and all of miners agree they can "print" as many bitcoins as they want

Right?

Seems to me exactly the same as government money

You don't understand the scope of "all the miners". There are miners in China, huge factories over there. Miners in America, miners in Sweden, miners here, miners there. You're not going to convince everyone to increase the supply of bitcoins, since it will have devastating effects on the value and strength of bitcoin which is why they are mining it in the first place.

[ebliever]

So if is good for the miners and all of miners agree they can "print" as many bitcoins as they want

Right?

Seems to me exactly the same as government money

Eight years of actual experience proves the opposite, as per my post above. Yes, there is no violation of the Laws of Nature involved in changing the number of bitcoins. But it is not going to happen. If I were a gambler I'd offer this: you pay me a dollar a day for every day the bitcoin limit stays at the current limit, until I pay you $1,000,000 the day it changes. Would you take such a bet?

[xaioret]

so I am assuming that this 21 million limit which is sold to the general public as a "golden rule" is not as golden

if  reaches consensus it can be changed so bitcoin is just like any government money, government money is printed with "reached consensus" also (considering that democracy is a consensus)

bitcoin is sold to general public as something that will never have the same inflation as government money but it works the same if can be changed with "consensus"

the argument that "people who have bitcoin they will not agree to print more bitcoin" does not make sense and is a fallacy

government also have a lot of money so they would never print more of this money  if this logic was true

and when I talk about "regular user" I mean the everyday normal guy, someone who doesnt even know what a Node is

so majority of Nodes is still a very very minority of all people who uses bitcoin

Consensus is not a trivial issue: the network hash rate is spread across the globe with many large mining operations having different ideals. If you want consensus, you have to convince (an overwhelming majority of) these various mining factories to change their method of operation to agree with you.

So if is good for the miners and all of miners agree they can "print" as many bitcoins as they want

Right?

Seems to me exactly the same as government money

You don't understand the scope of "all the miners". There are miners in China, huge factories there. Miners in America, miners in Sweden, miners here, miners there. You're not going to convince everyone to increase the supply of bitcoins, since it will have devastating effects on the value and strength of bitcoin which is why they are mining it in the first place.

European Union Parliament also have people from many different countries and this people are influenced by Millions of people from all these coutries who can talk to them and all of them uses the money Euro

Even with this millions of people from different places discussing they still choose the option to print more Euro, and they all use Euro so they think its a good thing for them

Seems to me a very ingenous idea that the 21 million limit will be respected lol

You really dont know Economics, motivations, big scale money theory

[DannyHamilton]

For the last two years the bitcoin community has been locked into a civil war over the best way to increase transaction capacity

You are mistaken.

People have been arguing about how to increase transaction capacity for at least 7 years.  Satoshi himself was disagreeing with others about it in 2010.

I am very pessimistic about the future of bitcoin now

Wont buy it

That's ok.  You don't have to buy it if you don't want to.

Bitcoin is a voluntary system.  You don't have to use it fi you don't want to.  The rest of us will continue using it if we choose to.

[xaioret]

So if is good for the miners and all of miners agree they can "print" as many bitcoins as they want

Right?

Seems to me exactly the same as government money

Eight years of actual experience proves the opposite, as per my post above. Yes, there is no violation of the Laws of Nature involved in changing the number of bitcoins. But it is not going to happen. If I were a gambler I'd offer this: you pay me a dollar a day for every day the bitcoin limit stays at the current limit, until I pay you $1,000,000 the day it changes. Would you take such a bet?

Your post will become a meme in 2040