Bitcoin Forum
May 03, 2024, 12:17:33 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: My Opposite Take on the "UP UP UP!" Mentality.  (Read 3913 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic.
Namworld (OP)
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 745
Merit: 501



View Profile
April 20, 2013, 08:42:38 PM
 #1

Well, I see a lot of bulls showing exponential growth with everyone getting rich still. I see a dead cat bounce.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bitcoins


I certainly do agree with the qualities of Bitcoins. But they don't appeal that much to the mass, but to a fringe community of users. They're much harder to use than older payment methods and unless someone absolutely needs/wants anonymity, will probably not go through the trouble of getting Bitcoins.

I also think these wild rides up followed by crash reduces relegate Bitcoins to a joke, at least for now, in the eyes of most out there. Albeit we're gradually getting more exposures/interest in Bitcoins, I believe.

The wild fluctuations are a nuisance which will delay Bitcoin adoption, in my opinion. It makes it a casino. A gambling speculative toy and reduces it's efficiency as a currency.

The software is also still quite immature and the limits imposed on transactions and the size of the current blockchain are already put under strain. We need more years of development before it becomes suitable for day to day usage, if ever.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Bubble


I currently see a bubble, fueled by hype. The current upswing being the "dead cat bounce" after the crash, albeit it's losing speed. There was more and more news along the way up. There's still a lot going out albeit less and I believe it will keep going lower and lower for that part. Now that we peaked and crashed, the topic is less sensational and I expect medias to slowly move away, for the time being. Search trends for Bitcoins has been on the decline. Will it keep going that way?


If it does, the influx of new money might be cut short. The latest uptrend might be just a dead cat bounce, latecomers going for the "cheap" Bitcoins, but if the influx isn't maintained, the buying spree might get short of breath. I see a rebound that is running out of momentum.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How I trade


So I have a completely opposite view to most out there it seems, not really being much interested in daytrading. Plotting charts might work well over the short term for a matter of hours/days, or even a few weeks. But on the long term, nothing beats the hype cycles which peak with media attention and mass enthusiasm. And those are fairly hard to predict in advance seeing one could start anytime with good news drawing more attention, more involvement and further fueling more news/enthusiasm in a self-feeding loop. Albeit once they start, the outcome is easy to guess. I started some time ago in the lows following the first Bitcoin bubble. I sold at the peak of the news, far fetched stories of various hypothetical scenarios where Bitcoins were about to go even more exponential in prices, when the amount of enthusiasm and imagined outcomes was stepping close to mass madness. Prices promptly came crashing down. Where did you sell at?

Many disruptive technologies were adopted fast, but it still took years for everyone to start using them. The telephone wasn't adopted in a few weeks. Computers were not adopted in a few weeks. The Internet was not adopted in a few weeks. Social networking sites like Facebook didn't become popular in a few weeks. It takes time for new things to mature into something that can make their way out there, if they ever do. Bitcoins might not even be the cryptocurrency to make it, if any cryptocurrency ever makes it.

My answer:
1714695453
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714695453

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714695453
Reply with quote  #2

1714695453
Report to moderator
Be very wary of relying on JavaScript for security on crypto sites. The site can change the JavaScript at any time unless you take unusual precautions, and browsers are not generally known for their airtight security.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1714695453
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714695453

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714695453
Reply with quote  #2

1714695453
Report to moderator
1714695453
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714695453

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714695453
Reply with quote  #2

1714695453
Report to moderator
1714695453
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714695453

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714695453
Reply with quote  #2

1714695453
Report to moderator
lucif
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 250


Clown prophet


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 08:48:25 PM
 #2

My five cents.

All this bubble only exists due two companies: MtGox (which is moving its funds to democracy fortress) and Bitpay.

All "adoption" is based only on these two, as no one will accept bitcoin directly due to its current volatility.

If something will go wrong with either MtGox or Bitpay... Everything will disappear in just one moment.

"Wordpress accepts Bitcoin" and (real) "Wordpress accepts Bitpay" is really two different statements. And looks like most people mislead them.
ElectricMucus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057


Marketing manager - GO MP


View Profile WWW
April 20, 2013, 08:52:15 PM
 #3

My five cents.

All this bubble only exists due two companies: MtGox (which is moving its funds to democracy fortress) and Bitpay.

All "adoption" is based only on these two, as no one will accept bitcoin directly due to its current volatility.

If something will go wrong with either MtGox or Bitpay... Everything will disappear in just one moment.

"Wordpress accepts Bitcoin" and (real) "Wordpress accepts Bitpay" is really two different statements. And looks like most people mislead them.

+21000000
Namworld (OP)
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 745
Merit: 501



View Profile
April 20, 2013, 08:54:01 PM
 #4

MtGox and BitPay are pretty big, attackable targets to attack if someone wanted to hurt Bitcoins, don't they?

Bitcoin itself might not be closed down anytime soon but all this is now pretty valuable for something still so risky.
Catacombkid
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0



View Profile
April 20, 2013, 09:03:09 PM
 #5

Well i have to oppose. The fluctuation was due to a lack of liquidity in the market. It's currently leveling out. No more big buys, this will soon be a non issue.  Ever tried to buy stocks? The trading system for stock holds is a bit smoother but purchasing in is still about the same amount of effort if not more. You just got lucky and got in early when purchasing is a bit more tedious, but the gains are higher
lucif
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 250


Clown prophet


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 09:03:22 PM
 #6

Additionally, please explain how both Mt. Gox and Bitpay "disappear" instantly.
Not mtgox and/or bitpay, but this bubble. Instantly fall to hell.
ElectricMucus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057


Marketing manager - GO MP


View Profile WWW
April 20, 2013, 09:03:43 PM
 #7

MtGox and BitPay are pretty big, attackable targets to attack if someone wanted to hurt Bitcoins, don't they?

I think the most risk comes from the inside of those ventures. They both operate without oversight and have a near monopoly.
There are so many things that can go wrong, ticking timebombs.

The other thing is BFL which is as shady as ever which actually may serve as a premature trigger.
lucif
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 250


Clown prophet


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 09:07:33 PM
 #8

The other thing is BFL which is as shady as ever which actually may serve as a premature trigger.

No one except for a small percentage of miners (who are a small percentage of bitcoin users) gives a fuck about BFL.
Hehe. Bitpay laundered money for this crime. Stay tuned =) 25 millions dollars.
wareen
Millionaire
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 910
Merit: 1001

Revolutionizing Brokerage of Personal Data


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 09:10:26 PM
 #9

"Wordpress accepts Bitcoin" and (real) "Wordpress accepts Bitpay" is really two different statements. And looks like most people mislead them.

You can't really separate Bitcoin the currency from Bitcoin the payment network either.

If a company accepts Bitcoin as an alternative for existing payment networks without ever really holding Bitcoin itself (by using some automated conversion service) then that's also a perfectly good use of Bitcoin. Bitpay can operate at a profit while still saving their clients money over other payment methods (e.g. Paypal). Even if Bitpay (or Mt.Gox for that matter) was shut down for whatever reason, there would soon be others to take its place because it is simply a profitable business model and it will remain so as long as traditional payment services don't lower their prices or increasing regulation for Bitcoin makes converting it considerably more expensive.

Let's face it: Bitcoin is not something people have to believe in for it to work. Bitcoin is a working technology that can be used to build quite profitable businesses on. People just using it to pay without speculating on future exchange rates is not a problem for Bitcoin at all.

        ▄▄▀▀▄▄
    ▄▄▀▀▄▄██▄▄▀▀▄▄
▄▄▀▀▄▄█████▄████▄▄▀▀▄▄
█▀▀█▄█████████████
█▄▄████▀   ▀██████
███████     █▄████
█████▀█▄   ▄██████
█▄█████▌   ▐█████
█████▀█     ██████
██▄███████████████
▀▀▄▄▀▀█████▀████▀▀▄▄▀▀
    ▀▀▄▄▀▀██▀▀▄▄▀▀
        ▀▀▄▄▀▀
.PDATA..
.
TOKEN..
██
██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██

██   ██
██   ██

██   ██
██
██
██
██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██

██  ██
██  ██

██  ██
██
██
██
██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██

██   ██
██   ██

██   ██
██
██
TELEGRAM     BITCOINTALK     FACEBOOK
MEDIUM    SLACK    TWITTER    YOUTUBE
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬   E M A I L   ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
██
██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██

██  ██
██  ██

██  ██
██
██
lucif
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 250


Clown prophet


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 09:13:06 PM
 #10

"Wordpress accepts Bitcoin" and (real) "Wordpress accepts Bitpay" is really two different statements. And looks like most people mislead them.

You can't really separate Bitcoin the currency from Bitcoin the payment network either.

If a company accepts Bitcoin as an alternative for existing payment networks without ever really holding Bitcoin itself (by using some automated conversion service) then that's also a perfectly good use of Bitcoin.

Bad use. Bitcoin intermediaries are all potentional scammers, as no regulation here.

FTC BFL investigation -> Bitpay suspect -> Bitpay close -> Wordpress, Namecheap, 1000+ accounts leave without money. -> RUMORS!

or

WHATEVER -> Bitpay close -> Wordpress, Namecheap, 1000+ accounts leave without money. -> RUMORS!

Very bad usage.
Frozenlock
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 250



View Profile
April 20, 2013, 09:15:50 PM
 #11

That's why there's also BIPS.
lucif
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 250


Clown prophet


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 09:17:43 PM
 #12

That's why there's also BIPS.
Good. Do you think wordpress and others will switch to another scammer when they will be screwed for good amount of fiat?
Frozenlock
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 250



View Profile
April 20, 2013, 09:22:52 PM
 #13

That's like saying "do you think wordpress and others will switch to another scammer when they will be screwed by their credit cards processor?"

I understand that you think bitcoins are overpriced and all (with pretty good arguments), but this one is just dishonest.
ElectricMucus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057


Marketing manager - GO MP


View Profile WWW
April 20, 2013, 09:25:11 PM
 #14

Let's face it: Bitcoin is not something people have to believe in for it to work. Bitcoin is a working technology that can be used to build quite profitable businesses on. People just using it to pay without speculating on future exchange rates is not a problem for Bitcoin at all.

Except one thing: It is in the best interest of bitpay to have volatility as high as their system can handle in order to make it unfeasible to accept bitcoins directly.
They admitted to playing the market with their clients funds before (for ex, "short squeezing pirate), and it would be easy and more profitable for them to continue doing it, both from a profit perspective and for maintaining their business model.

 
If it just were for using them for merchant payments there are other ways this can work, without a payment processor. Using pre-generated adresses from an offline wallet is as secure and as easy to implement.
wareen
Millionaire
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 910
Merit: 1001

Revolutionizing Brokerage of Personal Data


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 09:36:43 PM
 #15

Let's face it: Bitcoin is not something people have to believe in for it to work. Bitcoin is a working technology that can be used to build quite profitable businesses on. People just using it to pay without speculating on future exchange rates is not a problem for Bitcoin at all.

Except one thing: It is in the best interest of bitpay to have volatility as high as their system can handle in order to make it unfeasible to accept bitcoins directly.

You can also argue that anything that might hurt Bitcoin in the long run (e.g. too high volatility) is diametrical to Bitpay's interests.
I don't really buy the "Bitpay is manipulating the market to hurt competition" argument.

        ▄▄▀▀▄▄
    ▄▄▀▀▄▄██▄▄▀▀▄▄
▄▄▀▀▄▄█████▄████▄▄▀▀▄▄
█▀▀█▄█████████████
█▄▄████▀   ▀██████
███████     █▄████
█████▀█▄   ▄██████
█▄█████▌   ▐█████
█████▀█     ██████
██▄███████████████
▀▀▄▄▀▀█████▀████▀▀▄▄▀▀
    ▀▀▄▄▀▀██▀▀▄▄▀▀
        ▀▀▄▄▀▀
.PDATA..
.
TOKEN..
██
██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██

██   ██
██   ██

██   ██
██
██
██
██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██

██  ██
██  ██

██  ██
██
██
██
██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██

██   ██
██   ██

██   ██
██
██
TELEGRAM     BITCOINTALK     FACEBOOK
MEDIUM    SLACK    TWITTER    YOUTUBE
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬   E M A I L   ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
██
██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██

██  ██
██  ██

██  ██
██
██
ElectricMucus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057


Marketing manager - GO MP


View Profile WWW
April 20, 2013, 09:50:55 PM
 #16

Let's face it: Bitcoin is not something people have to believe in for it to work. Bitcoin is a working technology that can be used to build quite profitable businesses on. People just using it to pay without speculating on future exchange rates is not a problem for Bitcoin at all.

Except one thing: It is in the best interest of bitpay to have volatility as high as their system can handle in order to make it unfeasible to accept bitcoins directly.

You can also argue that anything that might hurt Bitcoin in the long run (e.g. too high volatility) is diametrical to Bitpay's interests.
I don't really buy the "Bitpay is manipulating the market to hurt competition" argument.

Lets say "a certain amount" of volatility. You do recognize that they do play the market with their clients funds?
The thing is: We can't know what volatility would be without them doing it.

And finally: They do increase volatility in a sense that they contribute to the hype. Now if you want to ride that hype it is clear that you actually like that. What you have to consider though is that real adoption takes place, albeit at a slower rate. That is sites accepting bitcoin directly, for donation proposes.
What I am suggesting is that without bitpay we would already be seeing more of that plus some stuff actually priced in bitcoin.
wareen
Millionaire
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 910
Merit: 1001

Revolutionizing Brokerage of Personal Data


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 09:57:25 PM
 #17

Bad use. Bitcoin intermediaries are all potentional scammers, as no regulation here.
Sorry, but that is just FUD.

If a company defrauds customers it is this company that is likely to face problems but not their payment processor. While I am not too familiar on US regulations in these matters, at least BitPay is a FinCEN registered MSB and I know of several other (non-US) services which are at least in the process of getting licenced as a payment service provider in their respective countries.

Stating that all Bitcoin intermediaries are potential scammers and that there are "no regulations" is plain wrong.

        ▄▄▀▀▄▄
    ▄▄▀▀▄▄██▄▄▀▀▄▄
▄▄▀▀▄▄█████▄████▄▄▀▀▄▄
█▀▀█▄█████████████
█▄▄████▀   ▀██████
███████     █▄████
█████▀█▄   ▄██████
█▄█████▌   ▐█████
█████▀█     ██████
██▄███████████████
▀▀▄▄▀▀█████▀████▀▀▄▄▀▀
    ▀▀▄▄▀▀██▀▀▄▄▀▀
        ▀▀▄▄▀▀
.PDATA..
.
TOKEN..
██
██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██

██   ██
██   ██

██   ██
██
██
██
██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██

██  ██
██  ██

██  ██
██
██
██
██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██
██   ██

██   ██
██   ██

██   ██
██
██
TELEGRAM     BITCOINTALK     FACEBOOK
MEDIUM    SLACK    TWITTER    YOUTUBE
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬   E M A I L   ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
██
██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██
██  ██

██  ██
██  ██

██  ██
██
██
smoothie
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473


LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 09:58:15 PM
 #18

Lol rename this thread to "reasons to hate bitcoin so the price goes down so I can buy cheap"


███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
        ,p████████████████████N,       
      d█████████████████████████b     
    d██████████████████████████████æ   
  ,████²█████████████████████████████, 
 ,█████  ╙████████████████████╨  █████y
 ██████    `████████████████`    ██████
║██████       Ñ███████████`      ███████
███████         ╩██████Ñ         ███████
███████    ▐▄     ²██╩     a▌    ███████
╢██████    ▐▓█▄          ▄█▓▌    ███████
 ██████    ▐▓▓▓▓▌,     ▄█▓▓▓▌    ██████─
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓█,,▄▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
    ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓─  
     ²▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓╩    
        ▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀       
           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.                  History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA BITCOIN GRIM REAPER SILVER COINS.
 
Kazu
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 168
Merit: 100


View Profile
April 20, 2013, 10:02:54 PM
 #19

It doesn't need to be that easy. Many smart people will use it whether it is easy or not. Maybe it won't overtake the USD/JPY any time soon, but just because it isn't easy yet doesnt mean that smart people won't learn.

CoinLenders - Bitcoin Bank Script / Demo
1v.io/kazu - 15ccW7m6RxDFWEKc3P1NdwWpX1N1pU7gZ8
ElectricMucus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057


Marketing manager - GO MP


View Profile WWW
April 20, 2013, 10:04:52 PM
 #20

Lol rename this thread to "reasons to hate bitcoin so the price goes down so I can buy cheap"



You should rename your post to: Reason to not take smoothie serious when posting in the speculation forum. Tongue
Get a hold of yourself, I know you can post something insightful, yet witty.
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!