Bitcoin was a great experiment. We learnt a lot from it.

[xuan87]

I don't understand, why so many threads lately related to Bitcoin beeing dead, doomed, lost, failed experiment etc. What is happening, why such disappointment?
Nothing is perfect and there are some problems and issues with Bitcoin like with everything else, but let's be honest and admit that Bitcoin is great achievement that made a great impact and that will not disappear just like that.

Bitcoin is a great coin, nobody can expect and predict bitcoin can survive until this stage, and I admit there are still flaws in bitcoin, but bitcoin is the pioneer of crypto currency and being used by a lot of people in this world and had helped so many people, we don't need to start over but we can try to fixed it and if you are not satisfied with bitcoin performance there are still so many alt coin ready for you to use

[Kemarit]

I don't understand, why so many threads lately related to Bitcoin beeing dead, doomed, lost, failed experiment etc. What is happening, why such disappointment?
Nothing is perfect and there are some problems and issues with Bitcoin like with everything else, but let's be honest and admit that Bitcoin is great achievement that made a great impact and that will not disappear just like that.

Bitcoin is a great coin, nobody can expect and predict bitcoin can survive until this stage, and I admit there are still flaws in bitcoin, but bitcoin is the pioneer of crypto currency and being used by a lot of people in this world and had helped so many people, we don't need to start over but we can try to fixed it and if you are not satisfied with bitcoin performance there are still so many alt coin ready for you to use

If I may add, up to this point in time, bitcoin had battle and survived. Scalability, competition from other cryptocurrencies, governments among others. We all know that one issue that keeps plaguing us is the block size debate. I will not get into details. I just touch base on it because I believe this is critical if bitcoin will be mass adoption and be used globally and survive.

[dinofelis]

If I may add, up to this point in time, bitcoin had battle and survived. Scalability, competition from other cryptocurrencies, governments among others. We all know that one issue that keeps plaguing us is the block size debate. I will not get into details. I just touch base on it because I believe this is critical if bitcoin will be mass adoption and be used globally and survive.

The block size will not change.  Bitcoin will remain what it is.  And no, people will not use bitcoin on the block chain.  But they will use bitcoin IOU by financial institutions.  Bitcoin and its block chain itself will become institution's backings, and no ordinary citizen will use the bitcoin block chain: too expensive, no agreement with miners to get your transaction processed.  Bitcoin will be simply the reserve currency used by financial institutions and other big players, who have agreements with miners.  You will use bitcoin IOU at your bank.  You will get a bank account denominated in bitcoin if you want to.   And a bitcoin credit card.  But you will not use bitcoin as such any more.  Blocks full, fees too high for non-agreed users, transactions filtered.

In the same way that people using dollars used to think that it was actually silver.

And the price of bitcoin will be incredibly high.  But those that you hold in a wallet, will never be transacted.  Unless you sell them to your bank.

[BitcoinHodler]

people area full of talk and only that. let's see how you can do it shall we.
we all are well aware of the shit that is going on with bitcoin, but with all that happening, bitcoin still is great and is bigger than you can think. we may be unhappy about a bunch of stuff but in the end we are using bitcoin and we can not see anything remotely close to it.

[Shiroslullaby]

Bitcoin has some issues but will still be king for the foreseeable future.
This is still the beginning of crypto, however. In ten or twenty years from now another coin may see higher use/ price.
It could be an already existing project, or something that hasn't even been written yet.

Bitcoin is like the invention of the telephone. It may take fifty or a hundred years but eventually we will have mobile smartphones.

[franky1]

people area full of talk and only that. let's see how you can do it shall we.
we all are well aware of the shit that is going on with bitcoin, but with all that happening, bitcoin still is great and is bigger than you can think. we may be unhappy about a bunch of stuff but in the end we are using bitcoin and we can not see anything remotely close to it.

are you talking about bitcoins ethos of 2009-2013 or are you talking about the reality of 2017. you cant be talking about both as things have changed

[dinofelis]

people area full of talk and only that. let's see how you can do it shall we.
we all are well aware of the shit that is going on with bitcoin, but with all that happening, bitcoin still is great and is bigger than you can think. we may be unhappy about a bunch of stuff but in the end we are using bitcoin and we can not see anything remotely close to it.

Bitcoin is being institutionalized.  The most scarce resource of bitcoin is NOT the coins, but the transactions.  Bitcoin's immutability will make that nobody is going to change this scarce resource.  At about 2-3 transactions per second WORLDWIDE, this is too expensive and scarce a resource to be used by mere mortals as a currency.  Bitcoin will be an "institutional vault" asset, and the scarce resource of transactions will, at high prices (fees) only be used to transfer big amounts between institutions.  The individual bitcoin value will reach incredible heights, and at the same time, people that are not institutions will not be able to make a transaction unless they pay gigantic fees.  Individual transactions of bitcoin may even be outlawed, if this is considered too precious and scarce a resource for ordinary people to waste.

And on top of that layer, banks and other financial institutions will build a fiat system.  The bitcoin ETF is part of that.

[Kprawn]

Why do we need someone at the top? Bitcoin is different to other Alt coins, because there is no "central" figure head to attack... and we have loads

of "anonymous" people contributing to this experiment. Everyone can run a node and have a part in the decision making. Satoshi cannot be

attacked, because nobody knows who he/she/they are. Anyone can contribute code changes and consensus will decide what gets accepted. 

[mrcash02]

Bitcoin has some issues but will still be king for the foreseeable future.
This is still the beginning of crypto, however. In ten or twenty years from now another coin may see higher use/ price.
It could be an already existing project, or something that hasn't even been written yet.

Bitcoin is like the invention of the telephone. It may take fifty or a hundred years but eventually we will have mobile smartphones.

Yes, it's still the beginning of Crypto-Currencies, that is why we have some issues and imperfections, but it's like a brute rock that it's going to be sculpt within time until it has a perfect format to attent the demand of everyone. It will take some time, but I'm certain Bitcoin won't die or be forgotten.

[dinofelis]

Why do we need someone at the top? Bitcoin is different to other Alt coins, because there is no "central" figure head to attack... and we have loads

of "anonymous" people contributing to this experiment. Everyone can run a node and have a part in the decision making. Satoshi cannot be

Nobody "needs" someone at the top, but it is interesting to be at the top, and to control this.  Bitcoin is stuck now in full blocks, and the consensus mechanism will preserve this precious scarcity, just like it preserves the scarcity of coins themselves.  As such, bitcoin will end up not be usable any more for small transactions ; one will need "good relationships" with miners in order to be able to guarantee to get one of those scarce transactions (only 2 or 3 per second world wide). 
Bitcoin will stop being a means of payment, a currency.  But it WILL be a "reserve currency" for big holders that can obtain guaranteed "slots of transactions" with miners.  Miners will fully exploit this power they have of distributing, at their likings, the scarce resource which is "transaction".  They may even make exclusive deals with banks and other financial institutions, that, against huge fees, these banks get exclusive right to their block room.  They may "rent" their blocks ahead of time to some institutions.  You, as an individual, with no particular relation to a big miner, will be left fighting for the very few "wild" blocks by those few miners still accepting random transactions (with huge fees).  No more "paying stuff on the internet" with bitcoin.  The scarce resource of "transaction space" will be sold very expensively in exclusive deals with big finance.  The mere mortal, even if he has bitcoins in his wallet, will not be able to transact them.  The only thing that he will be able to do, is to sell them to one of those financial institutions, at big loss.

But no problem he will get a "bank account denominated in bitcoin" with bank IOU.
He will be able to get his bitcoins.... but nobody will, because once the bank has transferred them to you, you can't transact any more.

So in the end, bitcoin will end up in bank vaults, and miners will be paid a lot to give exclusive block chain room to banks and other financial institutions, using bitcoin as a reserve currency amongst them.  There will be Davos meetings of bankers and miners, deciding on protocol changes (in their advantage of course).

[AngryDwarf]

Financial institutions do not need to use Bitcoin. They can create there own which they can control. They do not want stuck transactions, so they will make sure the blocksize is big enough for their needs. They will deploy datacentres with the storage and network bandwidth they need. It will be private to reduce the risk of DOS attacks. They need a distributed ledger because they don't trust each other.

Bitcoin might become the preserve of high wealth individuals if the technological growth is stunted. But bitcoin failue for ordinary people = massive distrust of any cryptocurrency for the ordinary people.

[MWesterweele]

The experiment taught us many valuable things.  Now it is time to back the fuck up and start over with some more workable parameters.  

Let's start with a new genesis block.  A more sane approach to mining.  Much faster block time.  Much higher capacity blcoks.  And no god-damned Blockstream dickheads trying to take-over and own the whole thing.  We need some real organization at the top.  Otherwise, Trump is going to create the Department of Homeland Cryptocurrency and electronic money will be forever controlled by the same politicians just like the last currency.  

No more fucking around with theory, it is time to put this thing right.  

Get rid of that poison team Adam Back and 1 Meg Greg.  Team Core is Team Bullshit.  

bitcoin teaches us so many things, not only about money but it teaches us lesson that we may apply in our lives.

[dinofelis]

Financial institutions do not need to use Bitcoin. They can create there own which they can control. They do not want stuck transactions, so they will make sure the blocksize is big enough for their needs. They will deploy datacentres with the storage and network bandwidth they need. It will be private to reduce the risk of DOS attacks. They need a distributed ledger because they don't trust each other.

This is where an asset they didn't invent themselves, comes in, like gold, or, bitcoin.

[jonald_fyookball]

Why do we need someone at the top? Bitcoin is different to other Alt coins, because there is no "central" figure head to attack... and we have loads

of "anonymous" people contributing to this experiment. Everyone can run a node and have a part in the decision making. Satoshi cannot be

Nobody "needs" someone at the top, but it is interesting to be at the top, and to control this.  Bitcoin is stuck now in full blocks, and the consensus mechanism will preserve this precious scarcity, just like it preserves the scarcity of coins themselves.  As such, bitcoin will end up not be usable any more for small transactions ; one will need "good relationships" with miners in order to be able to guarantee to get one of those scarce transactions (only 2 or 3 per second world wide). 
Bitcoin will stop being a means of payment, a currency.  But it WILL be a "reserve currency" for big holders that can obtain guaranteed "slots of transactions" with miners.  Miners will fully exploit this power they have of distributing, at their likings, the scarce resource which is "transaction".  They may even make exclusive deals with banks and other financial institutions, that, against huge fees, these banks get exclusive right to their block room.  They may "rent" their blocks ahead of time to some institutions.  You, as an individual, with no particular relation to a big miner, will be left fighting for the very few "wild" blocks by those few miners still accepting random transactions (with huge fees).  No more "paying stuff on the internet" with bitcoin.  The scarce resource of "transaction space" will be sold very expensively in exclusive deals with big finance.  The mere mortal, even if he has bitcoins in his wallet, will not be able to transact them.  The only thing that he will be able to do, is to sell them to one of those financial institutions, at big loss.

But no problem he will get a "bank account denominated in bitcoin" with bank IOU.
He will be able to get his bitcoins.... but nobody will, because once the bank has transferred them to you, you can't transact any more.

So in the end, bitcoin will end up in bank vaults, and miners will be paid a lot to give exclusive block chain room to banks and other financial institutions, using bitcoin as a reserve currency amongst them.  There will be Davos meetings of bankers and miners, deciding on protocol changes (in their advantage of course).

You are making a huge assumption that Bitcoin's store-of-value does not depend on its utility to be digital cash in widespread use. 

I believe the opposite to be true:  Without having widespread use (assumes more than 3 TPS)
Bitcoin will lose market share to other cryptocurrencies for all purposes,
both as a currency and commodity-like store of value.

[dinofelis]

You are making a huge assumption that Bitcoin's store-of-value does not depend on its utility to be digital cash in widespread use. 

The fraction of transaction volume by digital cash usage is tiny as compared to the daily bitcoin volume (mainly off chain, on exchanges, with bitcoin IOU).  Bitcoin's market cap is essentially made by greater-fool speculation ; its market cap sustained by demand as a digital cash to be used to buy stuff is an extremely small portion of the market cap.  It must be a few percent at most. 

This is like thinking that gold's store-of-value does depend on the few technical and artistic usages of gold.  It doesn't.  And gold isn't used as a currency either (any more).

Bitcoin will lose market share to other cryptocurrencies for all purposes,
both as a currency and commodity-like store of value.

As a currency, that's evident.  But bitcoin is already a very clumsy currency as compared to the technical performance of a lot of alt coins.  The reason that most of the tiny "currency" application of crypto is still bitcoin is a leftover from its first mover status.  But right at this moment, bitcoin is not usable any more as a currency.  And this will only get worse. 

Bitcoin will simply be a reserve currrency, and its scarce transaction volume (which is, in my opinion, graved in stone and will not change any more) will be a precious asset, only to be used between institutional vaults. 

[jonald_fyookball]

The fraction of transaction volume by digital cash usage is tiny as compared to the daily bitcoin volume (mainly off chain, on exchanges, with bitcoin IOU).  Bitcoin's market cap is essentially made by greater-fool speculation ; its market cap sustained by demand as a digital cash to be used to buy stuff is an extremely small portion of the market cap.  It must be a few percent at most.  

This is like thinking that gold's store-of-value does depend on the few technical and artistic usages of gold.  It doesn't.  And gold isn't used as a currency either (any more).

This is true for all currencies and doesn't change my premise.

  But right at this moment, bitcoin is not usable any more as a currency.  And this will only get worse.  
 

I believe that the price is still above $1000 because investors believe a scaling solution will be implemented sooner or later.
If people start to believe this is not the case, I would expect the price to tank.  I understand you disagree.

[BitFinnese]

Yeah you are right we learnt a lot in bitcoin,
I also learn to never believe in some on who are predicting things,
If you are just going to promote some other alt-coin just do it you don't have to be so rude to other person or other team.

Lol have you manage to read the whole thread?  This one reply by rawdog is best suited to you together with another reply that he qouted.

I guess you're just here to badmouth Bitcoin but I have an advice, you can just start your own Altcoin which would address all these problems you think Bitcoin is having. I'd prefer to shine rather than curse darkness!

Obviously, while you are busy 'shining' you are not reading.  Dumbfuck.  Check the part where he said starting an alt on top of the established chain is different than starting an alt fresh.  

Honestly debating with stuff will only delay the solution.  People have different assumption, every move, plan, or even sway of person's hand can be interpreted to something bad or good.  How about implement the solution first then adjust on whatever problem it will cause.  Not deciding on the matter will only lag Bitcoin development and eventually to its premise as altcoin are getting more advance and tired bitcoin enthusiast can easily migrate if some altcoin with worldwide adoption become available.

[franky1]

You are making a huge assumption that Bitcoin's store-of-value does not depend on its utility to be digital cash in widespread use.  

I believe the opposite to be true:  Without having widespread use (assumes more than 3 TPS)
Bitcoin will lose market share to other cryptocurrencies for all purposes,
both as a currency and commodity-like store of value.

to add to the point..
if..
Bitpay and coinbase (the utilities that MERCHANTS use for their shopping cart payment service)  and other services like shapeshift, pitpasa, itbit, changetip, kraken, xapo
decided one day that they will drop bitcoin and start accepting.. zcash or monero or litecoin..

knowing that DCG (funding blockstream(gmaxwell(monero fan), BTCC(bobby lee(litecoin's bro), bitpay, coinbase etc)
oh nearly forgot DCG also owns coindesk. just to add on some heat to the media propaganda of all of these changes being cough positive(not) cough

http://dcg.co/network/

what do you think will happen to bitcoins "value" when suddenly you cant use it on the exchanges you finding it harder to move to these alts. and you cant spend it with merchants

[hardtime]

This is something that the people really have to get over, people say that they had fun with bitcoin and now it's time for a rebirth of it. (usually the people from BU say this) Did you know that the same thing was said about Democracy and the United States, as it really was an experiment in order to really see what would happen. Democracy looks wonderful on paper, but when it comes to reality it's got a ton of its own flaws but in my opinion it would be the best governing type in all of the world.

But back on topic, Bitcoin is a thriving experiment that isn't going to be stopped. I think it's going to thrive and become dominant just like the US is, it'll stand side by side with the other FIAT currencies such as USD and be able to stand the test of time.

[miningdude]

Yes, we've learnt alot from it, and meaning of the crypto currency.