BitFlowSystems IPO

[WiseOldOwl]

BitFlow Systems Announces the IPO.

Shares Start at .01 BTC each.

Contract can be viewed here : http://dev.glbse.com/cgi-bin/asset?id=8c6af991f581d273228813d648fc8afda102838fb4a1ebd12e7e18af3a9efcd4.xml
And is 100% up to date and verified by glbse

Any questions are welcomed.
Feedback is appreciated

Thread and Email checked several times a day.

Monthly updates
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Complete Transparency

Get involved with a fast paced, extremely dedicated team.

If you need help using the Stock Market client just msg me and I will try to help Smiley

The only change from previous plans is we reduced the total shares issued to 100,000 from the original plan of 1M. Nothing changes just each share is worth 10 times more and there are ten times less issued.

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[whirlpool]

How fast would the server farm running this be?

[WiseOldOwl]

Just to clarify, is your question what the output of the mining operation will be in G/hash's?

[whirlpool]

Yes.

[WiseOldOwl]

Well,
Lets say we sell the IPO out at 25,000 shares .01 each.
That is 250 BTC, or at the moment about $4,000 USD.

3,000 Goes to New cards, we have the hardware to run the cards already. We have had pretty good luck with used 5850/5870 xfx because we just get the lifetime xfx warranty transferred over.
Id say that this IPO Will Bring roughly 3.5 G/Hash a sec to our Setup.  For a Total of 5.4 G/hash. We have more equipment coming after 6/30, we are waiting for a shipment as I am sure many of you are.

The other 1,000 is Going towards a Website/Server Combo For Bitcoinbux.com and Betterbitcoinbureau.info

[whirlpool]

One more question: How is the profit split between you, the investors, and the company itself?

[WiseOldOwl]

Electricity/Debt gets paid first

Any profit gets put into glbse and divided amongst the shares.
currently 20,000 shares are available to the public, I own 51,000, and I have a pair of investors that hold 29,000.

My investors have decided to wait for the IPO, and have made an agreement to sell 5,000 shares giving the public a total ownership of 25% over their 24%. They want to wait for it to go up first which is understandable,
Absolute latest would be 12/31/2011, but I believe they will sell sooner because they have no interest in controlling something they don't understand (Bitcoin in general lol), but rather make a profit.

[WiseOldOwl]

Thanks to our First Investor!!

[WiseOldOwl]

A little Shameless Bumpity Bump.
Lets keep the ball rolling!!

[REF]

how often are dividends paid? Did you put in the 510BTC to pay for part of the shares or did you a lot them to your self with no backing?

[WiseOldOwl]

I issued them to myself. The backing is the equipment, money, and labor i already have invested. I also have to keep control of my company therefore I need to retain majority ownership. If your question is whether I just valued the company I want this to grow into at that much, then no. I put these shares up for a very good price IMO considering what we already have established.
Total IPO Value of the shares offered is only 200BTC, Pretty cheap for 20% profit sharing and ownership.
The dividends are paid quarterly as of now, Although there is a clause that would allow us to switch that to monthly if we all agree.

[WiseOldOwl]

We got our 2nd investor!!

[anodyne]

We got our 2nd investor!!

That must have been me putting the change left on my GLBSE balance into a whopping 16 shares when I saw your offer...

But I'll check back and see how you keep up, so maybe it will be more in the future.

[WiseOldOwl]

LOL
You officially own 1/6250 of the company.
Congratulations
Really though If we make 6250 you made a buck and have you shares to sell still lol.

[anodyne]

I guess it's not the same as owning 1/6250 of Google... but as I said, I might do a real investment if you keep things interesting.

[SgtSpike]

What is your plan for reinvestment of profits into new equipment?

[Jdumond]

Im down as soon as I get home. Stupid work.

[WiseOldOwl]

The calculator we have been using basically does this
Money Generated - Bills(Electricity/internet/Servicerelated) - 20% towards Equipment Debt/purchase = profit

So basically 20%. If we owe because we leased it then we pay the debt, if we are payed off then we buy or lease something new.

This is something that is flexible, depending on the companies various projects. If we cease to need new equipment for whatever reason, obviously we will adjust it accordingly. Example being that another project takes off more than mining, and we need to focus reinvesting resources into that.

[SgtSpike]

Another question.

You mentioned a "team" of people.  Who comprises this team, and what sort of experience do they have?  Also, how are they being compensated?

[WiseOldOwl]

If you mean the team statement from the first post, I kinda meant it was going to be everyone who joined will make a team.

But the only actual team there is now is
Myself,
Two investors with fairly limited knowledge of bitcoin,
1 PC Cafe operator who holds no ownership in this company but rather I hold 30% in his,
And A Fairly Decent Programmer.

The only ones who get compensation out of the profit are the two investors, their situation is described a few posts back.

The programmer is paid on a job by job basis, but he is vested in bitcoin, and is considered on standby or retainer for us.

We are all friends of different ages and backgrounds,
The two investors have financial backgrounds, i.e stocks, bonds, PPM, IPO, etc., futures

[SgtSpike]

Thanks - I will consider making an investment.

[WiseOldOwl]

NP. Look forward to cutting you a dividend

[Jdumond]

I am in for 150 shares, mostly because I am proud of myself for figuring out how to work glbse.

Good luck!

[Benjie]

I cant see the business plan the link isnt working

[WiseOldOwl]

The linke has a lot of encryption which is supposed to be their for the glbse server but down towards the bottom you can see the actual text and terms of contract.

[REF]

to clarify how much hash are you running right now?

[WiseOldOwl]

About 1 g/hash atm. I ordered a cable from cablesrus here on bitcoin forum that should be here on monday. I have another 5850 sitting here for that cable.

I got that together in about 8 days. I also have a refund from some msi 6950's twin frozrs that were broken, so i shuold get a couple of those soon.

The PC Cafe owner has been generous with hardware such as PSU MB RAM etc. I pretty much just focus on cards.

While i'll admit that 1 G hash is nothing special, Within a couple weeks it will be >2.5 and if the IPO sells out it would be roughly 6g /hash. And I intend to increase this number at a constant rate.

The PC Cafe owner has 5 Comps with 2 6970's each that I personally have 30% ownership in, Which is about another .9G/hash in my pocket. If your wondering how I am keeping my sanity only running 2 G/hash the answer is "its difficult" I would love to fill my "server room" (5x10 Closet With A/C and Exhaust Routed to it) with mining rigs. I should show pics of this...remind me, I am not at home. That is the goal, We have the space for it, and ample amperage on the circuit. Should be a while before we expand beyond its abilities.

We need to beef the hash rate, that's why, as stated earlier, 75% of the IPO goes towards mining.

[REF]

i have some coins leftover in GLBSe ill buy some shares in the morning. Hopefully we can get a vote going and change the payouts to one a month.

[WiseOldOwl]

Sounds Good,
We also would like to see monthly payouts.
I just want them to be worth it first.
So far the general consensus is too do the first quarter and switch to monthly after that.
So the latest you would see a vote is end of quarter 1.

We appreciate your confidence as investors,
Thank you!!

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

I am tempted by this, however, I have a few questions before I invest. I think these results from these will also help to encourage others to make an investment ...

     You mentioned USD investors in the initial thread, which I am assuming are the two investors you mentioned here.
     What assets/cash does the company currently hold as a result of the funds raised from these two investors ?

     You mention "The backing is the equipment, money, and labor i already have invested." for the 51% of the shares you own.
     What assets/cash does the company currently hold as a result of this ?

     What liabilities does the company currently hold ? You mentioned debt earlier - are there any as of now ? What the retainer arrangement with the programmer ?

     I am not clear on your plans for the websites bitcoinbux.com and betterbitcoinbureau.info.
     Can you put together a business plan covering what you intend to do with these ?
     How do you plan to bring income into the company through these sites ? Please ensure this includes projected user growth figures and revenues.
     I am more clear on the mining side of the company but it would also be extremely helpful to have that documented in the business plan too.
     Please include plans for how you intend to deal longer term with the move from GPUs to hardware designed specifically to mine Bitcoins.

     Are the websites bitcoinbux.com and betterbitcoinbureau.info owned by the company now ?

     I am uncomfortable with the two USD investors having greater control (29%) than the other shareholders excluding yourself (20%).
     I think this is particularly important as the during the initial stages of the company a lot of decisions will need to be made through votes and you have already stated they
     do not understand Bitcoin - something I personally feel essential for such large owners of a Bitcoin company. How could you change this situation before 12/31/2011 as I
     feel that will act as a significant drag to investor takeup ?

[Ansem]

Just got an amazing amount of 3 shares Would get more if I had more bitcoins, maybe at a later date. Took me a while to figure the client out but I'm getting there..

[WiseOldOwl]

I have
roughly 25 Bitcoins.
(2) 6870's
(1) 5850
(2) 6950

Plenty of hardware

Bitcoinbux/betterbitcoinbureau

Internet/Electricity

Server Room Converted And Ready to go.

Just our experience in trading alone is worth 200 btc.

From the 2 investors I got most of the cards, Although I put in 600 Cash as well.
They also Took a leap of faith giving me any money for something like bitcoin.
They risked their money and time when we were at stage 1 100% risk factor.

BetterBitcoinBureau is going to be based off of the BetterBusinessBureau concept. This site is the brainchild of one of our  (2) investors who used to work for the BBB. Here you would be able to list your new company or file complaints about a company. It is like a rating system A small fee for listing a company and a smaller fee for filing a complaint to be posted online.

BitcoinBux on the other hand is going to be a financial epicenter. We plan on including an exchange, gambling games, financial products, etc.. Lately we have been discussing a payday loan for miners, Where they show their "Bank statements" (how much they mine a week), and get a bitcoin front until next mining pay day. Nothing is set in stone but these are the general ideas behind each.
When it comes to projected income and growth for each site, I simply in good faith could not give you that estimate as it would have absolutely no validity to the numbers.
For a good estimate, look at what other projects currently make. Casinos are roughly 4% favored. Payday loans are unbelievable at 460%, Transactions for exchange related or transfers command roughly<1%. So a combination of those multiplied by traffic = revenue.

The (2) investors will not vote against you guys unless it is absolutely vital to their existence. I made it perfectly clear that
I answer to you guys, and it would be very difficult to get me to vote against you ( the public investors). I can personally buy them out, but these are good friends who believed in me not even knowing what bitcoin was. They deserve a little action. But they respect your opinion as i do. They know you guys know what your talking about and they look to this forum for guidance

When it comes to debt, we owe about 1K to ourselves (me and the investors). We ate a lot of the costs, and donated some hardware. We also used cash so the payments could be postponed. Most of that money will be made back before the IPO is sold anyways.

The programmer situation has been discussed previously I believe. Basically we have him on hold and it costs us nothing until we are ready.

The investors control has been discussed earlier as well
The investors will not be involved in the glbse votes for now. They only are to be involved if we start spending money, not deciding how we handle our business.

A lot of these questions seem to be discussed previously so I am going to ask that everyone please read through all BitFLowSys Threads before asking questions, (not directed at you beamer, i just want to post this because there is a lot of info out there now and I could see myself having to re-answer stuff non stop from lack of DD (due-Diligence).
Thank You.

*EDIT*
I should add that our investors understand bitcoin "enough". Maybe they dont understand the HASH process and the technical stuff but they are very versed in currency and exchange. They know there place and would not vote on anything unless they really felt they understood it fully.


As of this post 549 Shares have been sold !!

[REF]

I have 1 more question what makes your "company" better then SkepsiDyne Integrated Node?

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

Thank you for your answers. Much appreciated.

I now own 500 shares. Further bigger investment very likely when the first dividend is paid out.

I look forward to making our company one of the best in the Bitcoin community.

[WiseOldOwl]

Before I even go look at them let me say I haven't checked them out.
So I don't know.
We are going on about this business regardless of what other companies may be doing, even if it is identical (is it?). . Not that we shouldn't or wouldn't  analyze competition, it's just that the market isn't exactly saturated with any one industry. So to let what someone else is doing alter our decisions would only be bad for the company.
If the company you mentioned has a similar business model, then I commend them. You as investors can make the choice to invest in one or the other, both, none.

My general feeling about bitcoin is that it will continue to grow. Meaning any portion of the market we can seize now will be exponentially bigger the longer we can maintain it.

Thanks, Good Question. To be honest, it is not very uplifting to see someone doing the same thing you are. I don't plan on investigating that company as of the moment. I will have a more impartial third party look at it and give me a review. I know full well it does not matter if we are doing something remotely similar or exactly the same thing, the pie is big enough for two companies in the bitcoin game atm.

[WiseOldOwl]

Thank you for your confidence beamer,
I look forward to it as well

Update: 1249 Shares sold as of this update

[REF]

Okay Ill be investing a little bit. Still interested in what you have to say after you get a review of SIN.

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

Me too.

Okay Ill be investing a little bit. Still interested in what you have to say after you get a review of SIN.

[WiseOldOwl]

Okay,
Hello everyone.
I looked over SkepsiDyne, and It seems to be a legit mining operation. I think he said he raised 8,000 usd through the IPO or sale. This is definitely not a threat to us. I like the graphs that show the investors the hash rate (so that will be incorporated). If you have more particular concerns regarding them let me know please so we can go over them. I saw that they were worried about the SEC getting involved. This is a non-issue at this point for us and them.

It brings me to another issue, Did we under-value this operation? Should we of initially tried to raise more, and started with a bigger project?
Any current share holders are encouraged to reflect on these questions and post feedback, as will we. There are solutions if we want to make a change, but let me assure I am just suggesting the discussion, and not changing anything prior a vote.

An option would be for me to recall this rest of the available shares and offer them at .02 (or whatever), if you guys think that is the true value and that people will feel the same way. Those of you who bought in early would reap the benefits of a 100% gain in stock price. And the total money raised by the IPO would be significantly more, meaning we get more mining hardware and start off a little bigger.

Let us know how you feel about the situation, going on about the original plan is never a bad idea, so don't think I am here trying to lobby for a change. I just noticed the numbers and would like to bring it to everyone's attention.

As of this post over 2100 shares have been purchased!!
Good luck and congratulations on your stake in what looks to be a successful project!

[elmom]

Do not artificially inflate the price, SIN or DISHWARA (don't remember which) did that (based on a vote) and it resulted in shareholders undercutting the IPO, meaning FREE MONEY.

You do have the option of stopping this particular IPO and starting a new one, but the "B" stock then needs to be somehow "worth" the higher price.

[WiseOldOwl]

I agree it would take some real fortitude to make it through that without selling for a profit.
The second suggestion of starting another asset, is the more common and more secure method.
Honestly, I feel like keeping it as is for now because at this point failure would be a difficult thing to accomplish IE we aren't in over are heads or even close. I like that. Even if it means we take it slower in the beginning.
Thanks for the input and insight

For now it looks like just stick to the plan..
Does anyone else have a position on this?

Off-topic but very important subject:
Who isn't practicing some sort of wallet.dat protection in our group?
If you are please post that you are and what you do to protect it.
If you aren't or have no idea what I'm talking about, please post so because myself or someone else here is going to teach you. It is of vital importance.
We are a team now and I don't want to hear about anyone's hard earned coin getting stolen if we can prevent it.
Bitcoins are worth some serious money now, chinese wow gold farmers,spammers,hackers in general etc. are going to have a new focus. Stealing your money. The new update should hopefully have something built in for encryption, but until then...
Also everyones MT gox account has been compromised including email and password. Change any password that is the same as your mt gox password and if possible your email. Bitcoin community is full of very sharp very opinionated people, some of those opinions may advocate the trojans and hacks. Be careful, your dealing with top notch hackers.

[WiseOldOwl]

Just wanted to post an update:
Stock market is still down.
So not much has developed on the IPO front.
I kept the investments in the glbse client ( i wanted to take a screenshot and show you guys when it hit the max).
So hopefully nothing bad has happened with the glbse.
More to some soon.

[MilkMan]

Hi, would it be possible to buy all remaining shares or is there a limit on the amount of shares one can purchase?

[elmom]

Hi, would it be possible to buy all remaining shares or is there a limit on the amount of shares one can purchase?

I don't think the client allows any artificial limits. Just buy everything that is available at that price, see "bmc.py depth BitFlowSys"
There are some offers at higher prices though.

[MilkMan]

Cool that would be great! Awesome company game plan and WiseOldOwl seems like an intelligent and trustworthy member of the community, who is creating the best games around right now. I trust him completely with my BTC. I heard a rumor from another member that 25% of the shares that were made available to the public by BitFlow Systems have already been purchased, and the IPO was only like 7 days ago! Maybe they know something I don't lol. I think I need to get in soon...

[WiseOldOwl]

Hello again everyone,
So I am working on setting up the new glbse system.
From what I can see on the charts, the IPO is going good. (42.92 BTC raised so far if i am reading it correctly) or almost 5,000 shares !!!
I have also secured a intentions contract with a hardware supplier. They build great stuff for great prices, and are ready to supply us when we are ready.
I look forward to kick starting this soon,
Im sure you all do to
~Have A Good Day~

[REF]

 bump. so whats up?

[WiseOldOwl]

We are still waiting for the IPO to sell out.

I have been considering several options for BitFlowSystems.
BitFlow was and is based on mining. If we don't raise the funds necessary to make this profitable, I was thinking that I would try to buy your shares back off of you guys in an effort to pay you back.
We will have to give it some more time to truly see if that's what needs to be done.
Either way, I try to provide the lowest risk possible for such a risky business. And crazy as it is, with me, youll get some money back if it doesnt work out.

Sorry about the wait, I too thought it would go sooner.

[REF]

Oh I was under the impression we you would start with a rig for now and we'd sell more shares and buy rigs as we went along. Shouldnt we be able to get a full refund if this doesnt work out? the BTC should just be sitting in GLBSE if you were waiting for more shares to sell. Im hoping this works and refunds dont need to be issued

[WiseOldOwl]

Turn of events,
Good news on the way

[WiseOldOwl]

*Update*
We have had a lot of developments at BitFlowSys.
Since the beginning of this, we have watched the mining industry become less and less profitable.
With no end in sight, and huge network hash growth, mining is looking like not such a great idea when compared to others.
Although I did build us a decent machine with some of the money (About 50btc, 540 m/hash, At this rate should bring us roughly 9.3 BTC/Month-electricity, I have another 6870 for it too but need a riser cable),
It is abundantly obvious that real profit is in gaming, exchanges, and services in general.
We have decided to revamp our goals and strategies.
I have to do what's best for all of us, and spending our money on mining equipment is not nearly as great of an idea as it seemed a few weeks back.

On the side, I have put my own Bitcoins/Money up for games and experiments like craps and 1.25x etc. as a way to test the waters in various areas.
I have also started an exchange-
I have used a lot of my own cash to operate this for the last week.
It is an excellent operation that I would like to merge with BitFlowSys.

What I plan to do is:
-Create more investment opportunities (over 10,000 shares were bought by 1 person and I have lots of people asking me to get in)
-Raise more money for our service projects.
-Increase the price per share of the stock and value of the company.
*Employ a professional programmer to strictly program our project and go on about his way*
*Create a automated p2p exchange of a higher quality than any in existence so far*
*Create a gaming site of high quality*
*THIS IS BIG- Use our funds to provide instant payouts in different forms through my already existing company-2-person exchange. This is a situation where we keep a lot of liquid funds around in different forms to provide a quick, safe transfer for a reasonable price and cut out any wait times involved with normal bank transfers (See http://xchange.bitcoinbux.com). This is our new bread and butter.
I am currently using my savings for this, it is of little or no risk so I don't mind, its just that we might expand past the cycle of my savings money and need more liquid. Basically we need enough liquid funds to be able to cycle the money and get it back before we run out of anything.
-I am very interested by the BitBills System and the Bitcoin ATM, thats all I have to say about that right now.

I plan on issuing more shares, which would of course dilute yours. This is not something I want to do if its going to cause a loss. The golden part is, the new shares will be issued at a higher price (Less than some have already paid) causing a new floor and value to be reflected. In the end it is you owning less of a bigger company. Another major reason this is a good idea is it allows speculation of the price to jump up higher because there is so much more potential in services than mining.

The bottom line is we undervalued ourselves, bitcoin services, and just about everything else about this scene except mining, which we overvalued.
The money needed to offer the best exchange, gambling games, service, etc. is available, We just have to raise it now.

So 40,000 more shares will be sold to the public at .05 btc each
The public will still own 20% of the company.
This will give us the liquid funds to process more transactions, and get some incredible sites going. Along with raise the floor value to .05, and our market cap will increase too. I advise not to sell for an immediate small profit, as you will make much more in the future, but don't fear if you see people doing this, as it will make no difference eventually)
The Bitcoin community can raise all the funds we need, and we don't need to involve a 3rd party institution for loans and such!! YahHoo!!

We will be speaking with a lawyer about how far we can take this and what parameters need to be followed for certain situations (We dont have these problems yet, no one has processed more than 10,000 at one time or any questionable situation for that matter) I will advertise in the real world if it is all legal and safe to do so.

I now have hired a sort of employee, He is not too bright, but he is staying with us and he is a loyal worker. He will be basically running errands and watching for changes and emails when I sleep. He will not process or handle any transactions though or really even touch my computers lol, but he will wake me up if you contact me. This is good news because I have not been able to get good sleep because I want to provide a+ Service.

If anyone is wondering, I still have all the coins left after the initial mining rig, and of course if it wasn't clarified before, we are splitting any profit that comes out of that rig also, although I hope no one even cares about that 9.3 btc by the time were done.

The shares will be up for sale at 3:30 PM EST on July 10, 2011
On the GLBSE
For .05 BTC per Share
If you have any questions please ask, I wrote a lot but there is no way to write everything.

[WiseOldOwl]

Getting Geared up for today!!
The BitFlowSys Opportunity will be available to some more people in just a couple hours!!
Also,
To our loyal investors, if you are using a exchange such as bitcoinexchange.cc or the likes, please consider using our service.
http://xchange.bitcoinbux.com
It would help support your investment's success, and has great prices and service

See everyone on the GLBSE at 3:30 EST !!

[REF]

that mining rig you built for 50BTC is horrible. 50BTC at minimun is $1200 for $1270 my rigs get 1350M/hash on average.

Besides that the rest doesnt  sound bad. Who did you hire for coding and as an employee?

[WiseOldOwl]

Ya I only got like 15 each for the bitcoins so more like 750. Also I have a 6870 for the rig just sitting here due to lack of riser cable, but that should bring it closer to 800 m/hash.

I have not hired anyone for coding yet.
We are talking with the designer of http://wheelwarehouse.com about whether he would be able to pull it off in a secure and fashionable sense. *Also I am working on getting Wheel Warehouse to accept bitcoins*

The employee I hired is a young friend of the family,
His job is to alert me to the various incoming messages, emails, etc. when I am afk.
Again I am paying him out of my money at first so no his salary is not going to eat up the original funds raised. He is mostly for international customers so we can offer service to them but I can still sleep at night.

[Vod]

Electricity/Debt gets paid first

You don't plan on working for free, do you?  Before I would even think of investing, I would want to see a contract listing these "debts" and their values.  I know programming isn't free, and your time is probably a significant debt.

[WiseOldOwl]

Things have changed significantly since that post. That post was referring to mining costs of electricity and equipment debt from leasing or borrowing. I was just clarifying that our bills get paid first because we are oh' so prudent   .
And yes I will pretty much work (hard too might I add) for free until we can support some type of salary for me. The programming will most surely be paid for out of the money raised by the IPO. If I have to pay for internet or something like that that I cant afford out of my own pocket for any reason I will notify. But so far all small costs I have just eaten.

If we considered and paid me for all the time I have put in, we would be broke lol. When things are going well we can all agree on some way to compensate me for my work. But for now I'm just going to keep on working, and see how big we can build.

[crispy]

For my edification, and that of others interested: are you located in the United States -- or somewhere else.

One concern with your proposal is whether the laws in your jurisdiction allow online gambling.  Certainly a "small fish" is less likely to attract attention, but being based in the US is a riskier concept than if you're based in, say, Ireland (Intrade) or Antigua (who recently won a WTO dispute against the US).

[WiseOldOwl]

We are US Based,
And no, the current state of things in regards to gambling wouldn't involve backing by a US Company. If We were to make a fully advertised and functional casino, It would be solely run in a legal jurisdiction like the ones mentioned above.
The Gambling is on the back burner to services and banking anyway at the moment, we are jumping hoops to expand the ability to acquire BTC to more people.
There are interesting things happening, and I don't know where this will go. We have an appointment with a lawyer next week, we will see what he says.

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

Can we get an update on progress and financials (customer numbers, revenue, costs, profit) please ?

Also, when can we expect a dividend payout ?

[Nefario]

Bitflow is in danger of being delisted in 14 hours https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=37414.0

Nefario

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

What's the latest on the company ?

[WiseOldOwl]

So the original project that is BitFlowSys has been put on hold.
New larger investors in combination with a lawyer have made it clear that glbse not going to be part of this business for a multiple of reasons.
There will be some refunds issued in intervals,
Sorry mining did not make it and the expansion we needed to support a large service company did not materialize through glbse.
A more detailed post will be out soon.
Sorry for the outcome of this situation, I was hoping for a bit more luck.
Good luck to you all.

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

What has our contract got to do with these "large investors"?

Why has it taken till now for you to decide GLBSE is unfit for purpose?

I assume you will provide an opportunity for all existing investors to join these "large investors" in this separate project?

Just so we are all clear here ... you are saying none of the funds raised from sales of BitFlowSys shares has been withdrawn from GLBSE?

What has funded bitcoinbux.com?

So the original project that is BitFlowSys has been put on hold.
New larger investors in combination with a lawyer have made it clear that glbse not going to be part of this business for a multiple of reasons.
There will be some refunds issued in intervals,
Sorry mining did not make it and the expansion we needed to support a large service company did not materialize through glbse.
A more detailed post will be out soon.
Sorry for the outcome of this situation, I was hoping for a bit more luck.
Good luck to you all.

[WiseOldOwl]

I didnt read in that quote anything that said I never touched the money.
In-fact the first BTC still went to mining equipment before there was ever a bitcoinbux.com.
This was a mining operation, then we tried to raise funds so you guys could be on board for the service thing but the funds did not materialize.
No 200 btc isnt enough for you guys to be part of this, but it was enough to be part of a mining op. The problem is it didnt work out. 2,000 btc is a more realistic buy-in for the exchange company so i offered 40,000 shares at .05 btc each. They didnt sell.
BitFlowSys didnt work out.
No we wont be offering personal loans to you guys like I did with our long time family friends who put up 10k+ and live in the same place.
The absolute crazy insane part is I am expected to refund you guys at a bigger loss to myself when my mining and my attempt at raising funds failed too.  Whatever though, the community wants to eat cake and have it too.
I feel like just running the rigs and letting everyone split their 1 btc a month in dividends because of the way it is being handled.
The only reason I don't feel guilty for saying that you guys are lucky you are getting paid back is because I have lost significantly more in SEC regulated markets for much less going wrong, LOL try and get a refund from them.
And on the first page of E-Trade, it doesn't blatantly state that "this is in beta and you could lose your shirt. Do not put more in then you are willing to lose."
Im not saying GLBSE wont turn out to be a great staple of the bitcoin community, but I love investing and I have not invested 1 dollar into any company on there, why??? Because it is a extremely risky investment with i'd say a less than 10% chance of any return and the company making it out of their IPO.
BitcoinBux has been funded by numerous people, but to think that 200 btc can operate BitcoinBux is a little naive...
Like I stated before, I will be paying you guys out of my pocket, not out of this company.
I am discussing with nefario how to go about doing this the best way.
It was not right this second that we saw glbse unfit it was infact over a week ago. Our lawyer explained the sec regulations and how this could be remotely construed as raising illicit funds. He suggested we disconnect ourselves from it.
I would like to save face and pay everyone back though, crazy I know.
I dont understand how you guys dont feel any loss though??? Im not even running the mining rig it is so pathetic in profit, wtf do i do with it. I cant issue it as a dividend, if I sell it we get half what we paid.
Suggestions welcome,

[deslok]

Please check your pm's owl

[WiseOldOwl]

I think I pm*ed you, i didnt save a record of it though, let me know.

[Nefario]

AFAIK this share is not for bitcoinbux.com, so that's not whats on the table.

If Owl is not going to continue operations, then the best thing to do is liquidate the assets for the company you have (i.e. the mining equipment)and make a single final dividend payment with the proceeds, then the share could be considered worthless.

In the meantime people can continue to trade in the share, and people can buy or sell for what they think it will eventually be worth.

You may consider selling the rigs to Tawsix of SIN, he may be interseted (don't know).

Another option may be to continue the running of the mining rig, less electricity and operation costs, paying out dividends until the rigs essentailly fail, and then liquidate them.

I would say that it would be a good idea for owl to recall any unsold shares,I'll add that function to the webclient tomorrow, and to cancel any of his market orders to sell.

If these turn out to be the only two ideas then owl might put them to a shareholder vote and let the shareholder decide how to wind things up.

Nefario.

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

WiseOldOwl ...

Could you please go back and review what you have (or rather haven't) said to the investors, particularly over the last two months. This thread represents the sole method of communication between them and you.

What you are now saying is a significant turn around in both tone and content - almost to the point where I wonder whether the account has been compromised.

You might want to consider the impact on your reputation of what you are saying and doing right now.

[WiseOldOwl]

Yes this whole thing was for a mining business,
We attempted to IPO for a service business and it did not work out in time.
We are going to be refunding the money.
Everyone here needs to be realistic about this situation.
There have already been people inquiring about the hardware so that is good. Also it's not like I am going anywhere so you are going to actually get your money back for a bitcoin stock investment in mining that originated in JUNE
(end of mining being worth it)
To the few people that invested in the second IPO (entered in at .05 btc per share or more),
You have the right idea and I encourage you to pursue service related investments, I am sorry we couldn't get it even past the 20% stage.
We will liquidate the hardware we have, and obviously refund whatever is in the glbse account. After that, if we are still short I will pay out of pocket. I think this is fair considering the amount of time and effort and money and gas I have put into this. Just to have a ridiculously hot house, an insanely high electric bill, and a low profit margin. The transition to services through this stock failed to keep up with the demand of the company. It is what is known as a failed start-up investment. You simply cannot run services without raising the proper funds, I gave the community the opportunity first but it didnt work out in time. Refunds will be coming soon.

Also If my tone is off it is because I have had a few private emails calling me a scammer after the bazillion transactions I have made good on. A lot of people thought I was just walking away with the money. I am not taking money to be clear. It is being refunded for sure. We are liquidating and going from there.

I am going to assume that my reputation would be enhanced by the nobility of paying a bitcoin stock investment back after mining failed and it didnt get out of it's IPO... I feel like you guys are expecting a lot. Its not like I am mybitcoin.com and i said I would safely guard btc for you and have them for you later and then walk away with them. It was a investment in a IPO, that needs to be reflected on for a second, the amount of loss incurred by me matters too.Again, refunds coming soon.

[Jonathan Ryan Owens]

Anyone who's raised money will tell you, the smaller the investment, the more the hassle. 

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

WiseOldOwl ...

Can you please summarise the finances, expenditure and remaining assets of the company to date ?

Can you please elaborate on the refund schedule ?

For what it is worth, I have placed an ask up for my 629 shares at 0.009 BTC each - meaning a 10% loss on the small amount I could afford to invest.

If you wish to refund me at 90% by buying these back please do so, or if someone else wants to make an easy 10% ...

[WiseOldOwl]

There isnt much to discuss.
we are talking a small amount of expenditures, finances, and assets.
We lost a significant amount of btc to hardware depreciation, I also turned on the miners to mine solidcoin for now, so i have some of those.
I also have 40 btc to give to nefario.
Nefario is going to handle the refund.
As i get increments of 40-50 btc put aside i will give to him and he will reverse transactions and pay people back.
I will msg him right now with the first 40, and he will reverse the most recent transactions until everyone is paid.

You don't need to sell for a loss unless your desperate, in which case you should most likely not be investing in bitcoin stocks or any stocks really.  The amount of money you are talking about losing is .629 BTC, or roughly 4$, that is pretty good considering what happened.
Anyways, 40 btc will be distributed asap, at nefario's convenience.

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

Fair enough.

Unfortunately, I think everything Bitcoin is off by around a factor of 10 at the moment ... the Bitcoin userbase, the USD value of BTC, the GLBSE userbase, the number of GLBSE listed companies, the amounts in BTC getting raised from IPOs ... I'm sure they are all correlated and if I knew how ... maybe I am just being too impatience :O)

[Nefario]

I have recieved 38.865BTC from WiseOldOwl
Holding for the next day or so(kind of busy).

[REF]

I have recieved 38.865BTC from WiseOldOwl
Holding for the next day or so(kind of busy).

Did anything happen with that 38 btc? Is the plan to buy back shares at 0.01 btc?

came hear to ask the same question. not that im aware of i still have all my shares and no extra coins in my GLBSE account

[WiseOldOwl]

I assumed Nefario returned it by now...
I will write him a PM and ask what happened. Also, there will be another issuance in the coming weeks.

[dmcurser]

just woundering if you have hear back from nef ive messeaged him on glbse and still havent heard back for about 2 weeks now?

[WiseOldOwl]

Nefario was in an accident, spent a couple weeks in the hospital, maybe you should try resending your message.

Wow, Really?
This explains it, Best wishes to him and his

[REF]

Nefario was in an accident, spent a couple weeks in the hospital, maybe you should try resending your message.

Wow, Really?
This explains it, Best wishes to him and his

no kidding no wonder he wasnt answering his pm. i hope it wasnt to bad.




just bumping this to make sure we arent forgotten about.

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

Bumping again. I'm hoping WiseOldOwl will follow up with Nefario on this ASAP. It is a shame this is taking so long to be resolved. Doesn't reflect well on the parties involved.

[dmcurser]

also bumping to see some action i know nef is back so plz wise can we see whats going on so we can put this behind us

[shakaru]

I have been trying to reach owl out here in socal and its like he died or something. I will keep trying, but my luck is not going well at all.

[Nefario]

I haven't heard from WiseOldOwl for some time. From what I remember he sent about 40btc to me to payback to shareholders. I still have this bitcoin, he did say it was going to be the first of a number of payments but there were no more.

What do people want to be done with this asset and the bitcoin for it?

Nefario.

[shakaru]

I haven't heard from WiseOldOwl for some time. From what I remember he sent about 40btc to me to payback to shareholders. I still have this bitcoin, he did say it was going to be the first of a number of payments but there were no more.

What do people want to be done with this asset and the bitcoin for it?

Nefario.

I can almost say he would want them payed out. We had talked last time I had him do a BTC - > Cash pickup and he was saying at the time he had issues getting ahold of Nefario and couldnt not issue the payment.
I will try again this week to contact Owl and get him to address the issue.

[dmcurser]

ty nef for replying to this an hopfully owl is ok bc its not like him to not be on the forum and we get this thing going

[REF]

If its possible start handing them out in the order they were purchased. Its known he wanted to pay everyone back.

thanks for not forgetting about us nefario

[Nefario]

Well I was going to just pay it out as dividends.

[dmcurser]

im not sure if hes able to see that and i know a few ppl bought in at .5 instead of the .1m so hmm
how to do it right

[Nefario]

Dividend paid:

Number of assets paid   24055
Total amount paid   40BTC
Payment per share   0.00166285

[dmcurser]

still no word from wiseoldowl??

[Nefario]

Nothing sadly.

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

Bump. Another month passes.

Is this going to be yet another asset issuer who fails to keep promises ?

[shakaru]

I am looking for him too. His phone is disconnected and he has yet to send the fabric Deslok ordered for bitcoinprintshop has never been delivered.

[WiseOldOwl]

Hi,

Shakaru, why would you be looking for me?

Also, if I owe anyone and it is a reasonable debt that wasnt a gamble you lost ( i have to evaluate the old postings and situation because i truly forget the status), i will gladly pay it back just pm me. I am not now, nor was I ever a scammer.
I really did take pride in my rep, and wouldnt want to tarnish it. I may haver some project failures, but i have success's too.
Anyways Im not trying to prove or deny anything, just looking to get back into the community.

Seriously in need of a refresher when it comes to bitflow, i remember it didnt work out as a mining company because mining was worthless all of the sudden, and then i think we shifted the focus but it never took off???
I remember the user name REF, did we do business?

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

Once you give a satisfactory and full explanation of what assets / expenditure the remaining 83% of my investment was spent on, I'll decide whether I'll ever trust you again.

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

Yes, a single payment was received from WiseOldOwl by Nefario representing a total of ~17% of the investment made by those buying in at the IPO price of 0.01 BTC.

The BitFlowSys asset was removed during the GLBSE 1.0 to GLBSE 2.0 transfer.

I lost a total of ~5.22 BTC. Nothing major but still felt conned. However multiplied across all the investors when BTC was trading at ~$18, it was a pretty significant sum of money, and will be again in the future. A significant loss for the community.

didnt nefario pay some dividends ?

[WiseOldOwl]

I will do my best to itemize everything that was bought and sold.
My electricity cost here was a major reason the mining did not work, and id say over the two months there was a decent portion spent on that. (Maybe 10%)

Anyways, I didnt purchase anything for myself ( like a scammer would) or cash out any money to cash unless to buy parts. so most everything should be accountable.

Im not petty in a way that even if i didnt do anything wrong and you lost money i wouldnt try to repay it if i am a focal point of losing the money. What im saying is before i have people disliking me i would pay them regardless if its my fault. Well as long as i have the personal money, without any personal money i dont even have that option.

Anyways we will sort all this out...
I have a pretty demanding day job which is different compared to last time because bitcoins were my day job. So the freakish response times and availability i became known for is not going to be happening for the time being.

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

Still waiting for the promised information. Cumulatively a significant chunk of investment money is unaccounted for.

You talked previously of discussions with lawyers, $10,000 investments from initial investors etc ... so either this was a significant endeavour OR you don't consider the large number of small individual investments made in Bitcoin through GLBSE to be as important. You need to explain exactly what you spent our money on.

If you really want to repair your reputation in this community you need to sort this out now, enough excuses.

As it stands, I won't be trusting anything you do or any services / products you offer and will be recommending others have nothing to do with you either.

I will do my best to itemize everything that was bought and sold.
My electricity cost here was a major reason the mining did not work, and id say over the two months there was a decent portion spent on that. (Maybe 10%)

Anyways, I didnt purchase anything for myself ( like a scammer would) or cash out any money to cash unless to buy parts. so most everything should be accountable.

Im not petty in a way that even if i didnt do anything wrong and you lost money i wouldnt try to repay it if i am a focal point of losing the money. What im saying is before i have people disliking me i would pay them regardless if its my fault. Well as long as i have the personal money, without any personal money i dont even have that option.

Anyways we will sort all this out...
I have a pretty demanding day job which is different compared to last time because bitcoins were my day job. So the freakish response times and availability i became known for is not going to be happening for the time being.

[imsaguy]

I will do my best to itemize everything that was bought and sold.
My electricity cost here was a major reason the mining did not work, and id say over the two months there was a decent portion spent on that. (Maybe 10%)

Anyways, I didnt purchase anything for myself ( like a scammer would) or cash out any money to cash unless to buy parts. so most everything should be accountable.

Im not petty in a way that even if i didnt do anything wrong and you lost money i wouldnt try to repay it if i am a focal point of losing the money. What im saying is before i have people disliking me i would pay them regardless if its my fault. Well as long as i have the personal money, without any personal money i dont even have that option.

Anyways we will sort all this out...
I have a pretty demanding day job which is different compared to last time because bitcoins were my day job. So the freakish response times and availability i became known for is not going to be happening for the time being.

You started a bitcoin mining company, contributed assets, sold some shares for <50% of the company.   Once some shares sold, you decided it wasn't profitable to mine so you floundered around for a direction to go.  You attempted to sell more shares but nobody bought this time.  In the meantime, you started to mine solidcoins for at least a short period of time.  You promised there would be a liquidation and that you would refund even if it meant coming out of pocket.  You sent Nef 40 btc, he got in an accident and then you disappeared.  You come back now with a bad cause of the 'I forgot what happened' even though all it takes is reviewing this thread to get a good idea of what went on.  

I draw issue with the following:

• You repeatedly failed to provide an accounting of the btc and/or hardware.  When asked, your response was that it wasn't worth talking about because there wasn't much there.   If there wasn't much there, it shouldn't have taken long to put together a listing.
• Attempting to change the purpose of the company without ever putting it to a vote.  While you did retain a 51% majority, there should have still been a public vote on it.  Instead, on July 09, 2011, 01:15:24 PM, you announced that you were taking the company in a different direction.
• You imply that their investment in the mining company was a gamble is true to a certain degree.  Any business is a risk.   You changed the terms with your wanting to merge the companies however, which means they couldn't properly calculate the risk.
• You promised refunds repeatedly, even if it meant covering them out of pocket.  When it came time to issue the refunds though, you made a token refund and then disappeared.
• You've now reappeared after your extended absence with a memory failure.

I acknowledge Shakaru is a liar, but at some point, even liars tell a shred of truth.  I have to wonder how much truth Shakaru spoke when referring to your deal with him, now that you've shown your word is less than 100%.

[REF]

final! I was starting to think oldwise would come back and get away without any sort of explanation on this one. imsaguy great timeline. Even if this was what he called a "gamble" we should of been able to get back more then 40BTC. hell all he had to buy was graphic cards because the other equipment was apparently free. At the time this was taking place grahpic cards were being resold like crazy near or equal to there original value.

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

I'm really quite amazed by the behaviour of WiseOldOwl ...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89114
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89127
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88551

Everything seems like it was so difficult for him and he apparently thinks he can just return to the community having made a token repayment of the money invested in BitFlowSystems, all will be forgiven, everything will be forgotten as easily as he seems to forget and he can start out on another project without a stain on his character.

I won't be forgetting this.

[copumpkin]

I'm really quite amazed by the behaviour of WiseOldOwl ...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89114
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89127
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88551

Everything seems like it was so difficult for him and he apparently thinks he can just return to the community having made a token repayment of the money invested in BitFlowSystems, all will be forgiven, everything will be forgotten as easily as he seems to forget and he can start out on another project without a stain on his character.

I won't be forgetting this.

Also, although all investment is risky, there's a difference between negligence with invested money and a legitimate loss. If I bought a million dollars worth of JPM and they squandered it all on hookers and blow, I could probably sue. If I bought a million dollars of JPM and they went bankrupt tomorrow, then I'd just have to eat the loss. This case seems more like the former kind of situation than the latter.

[REF]

It doesn't much matter.  As he said, he has a job now and can pay back his debt out of that income.

Him saying that doesnt matter much. Once he starts to deliver we can believe him.

Im worried about his first OP on the immmm back thread. He wants to start more projects yet he so cavalry tossed this aside and "forgot" abut it. Im with ben im not forgetting.

[bulanula]

Wondering if he will pay back or just do nothing and if he will get the tag.

Seems that the scammer tag is defunct now.

Andre from WBX got away without one ...

[WiseOldOwl]

I never wanted to take investments in a new project, 1.. or even start one for sure for that matter.
I am over this place, in a lot of ways it is different and not even what it used to be. Im not sure what to do about this, I am not fond of getting accused of things I have nothing to do with, like shakaru's issues. And you admit the investment was a gamble and I owned 51%.... You guys are the displaying the definition of wanting to have your cake and eat too, again.
Stop being babies about it, it didnt work out and there was a 20% refund. It not easy to refund money once you have started a business, and are going along. If we were really in this together and this shit didnt work out its like oh well, well hit me up if you need a favor. Offer what ever you can to make it right. No one ever asked me like hey can you get me a programmer or maybe facilitate a transaction somehow without charging me fees? so quick to blame and act like isolated from the business, but if it took off and we were making money you would be all over it, like you were really taking responsibility and risk lol. Its not like that money went to only equipment, I bet some got spent on other shit too.
This isnt a highly regulated market, Im sorry for that. If it was I would of kept better records, but I didnt, because I straight up didnt have too.

You guys are to much.
This community is the one that has floundered, terrified of the big bad scam. paranoid to where you wont even move forward. So quick to blame, cant even take logical variables into consideration.

"you guys used to be cool" lol

Anyways Im done, this isnt somewhere that spawns revolutionary ideas anymore, but it has become a stagnate pool of paranoia.

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

I've simply asked for a full and proper account of where the investment money was spent.

A whole lot more professionalism and a whole lot less deflection is required here.

Show some respect, have some dignity and answer the legitimate questions of all those who put their trust in you - that is the only "favour" I will ask of you.

[copumpkin]

I never wanted to take investments in a new project, 1.. or even start one for sure for that matter.
I am over this place, in a lot of ways it is different and not even what it used to be. Im not sure what to do about this, I am not fond of getting accused of things I have nothing to do with, like shakaru's issues. And you admit the investment was a gamble and I owned 51%.... You guys are the displaying the definition of wanting to have your cake and eat too, again.
Stop being babies about it, it didnt work out and there was a 20% refund. It not easy to refund money once you have started a business, and are going along. If we were really in this together and this shit didnt work out its like oh well, well hit me up if you need a favor. Offer what ever you can to make it right. No one ever asked me like hey can you get me a programmer or maybe facilitate a transaction somehow without charging me fees? so quick to blame and act like isolated from the business, but if it took off and we were making money you would be all over it, like you were really taking responsibility and risk lol. Its not like that money went to only equipment, I bet some got spent on other shit too.
This isnt a highly regulated market, Im sorry for that. If it was I would of kept better records, but I didnt, because I straight up didnt have too.

You guys are to much.
This community is the one that has floundered, terrified of the big bad scam. paranoid to where you wont even move forward. So quick to blame, cant even take logical variables into consideration.

"you guys used to be cool" lol

Anyways Im done, this isnt somewhere that spawns revolutionary ideas anymore, but it has become a stagnate pool of paranoia.

Nice. I guess all I need to do to make money is:

• Start company
• Attract investors
• Claim to have lost all the money in company business, while I do nothing
• Tell investors to suck it up, because investment comes at a risk, and act insulted if anyone asks for details of where their money went
• ??? (I guess it's actually pretty simple)
• Profit!!!

Thanks for your teachings, O wise one.

[PatrickHarnett]

• Attempting to change the purpose of the company without ever putting it to a vote.  While you did retain a 51% majority, there should have still been a public vote on it.  Instead, on July 09, 2011, 01:15:24 PM, you announced that you were taking the company in a different direction.

Just for the record, even a 51% shareholder can not unilaterally change the purpose of a company.  The fancy term is "ultra vires", but what it really means is that any other shareholder should come after you and extract their pound of flesh for unlawfully taking their money.

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

On the tenuous assumption that BitFlowSystems was only a mining company ...

50 BTC appears to have been spent on mining hardware by WiseOldOwl on behalf of the company, which being a company asset, should therefore be sold at the best price achievable.
WiseOldOwl should provide receipts covering all company expenditure on this mining hardware.
WiseOldOwl should arguably keep 51% of the proceeds from this, with the remaining 49% being returned to investors.
I suggest WiseOldOwl seeks an offer from the cafe owners identified in early posts within the thread and raises a motion so that investors can decide whether the offer is fair value for the identified assets.

150 BTC of expenditure is completely unaccounted for. This is assumed to be held in cash by the company at this date. 100% of this should be returned to the investors - WiseOldOwl has no claim whatsoever on this.

To date WiseOldOwl has repaid 40 BTC to investors.

In the absence of any further justification of what expenditure occurred by WiseOldOwl on behalf of the company and on the assumption that 50% resale is achieved for the mining hardware, this leaves a debt of 135 BTC to be repaid to investors.

Should WiseOldOwl wish to challenge this figure, WiseOldOwl is required to provide full records of any additional expenditure identified.

WiseOldOwl should work with Nefario to ensure that the ownership records of the shares in BitFlowSystems prior to delisting are recovered so that all investors are paid fairly and proportionally.

I will be charging 1% interest on the outstanding debt for every week it remains unpaid starting today. I urge all other investors to do the same.

[imsaguy]

I never wanted to take investments in a new project, 1.. or even start one for sure for that matter.
I am over this place, in a lot of ways it is different and not even what it used to be. Im not sure what to do about this, I am not fond of getting accused of things I have nothing to do with, like shakaru's issues. And you admit the investment was a gamble and I owned 51%.... You guys are the displaying the definition of wanting to have your cake and eat too, again.
Stop being babies about it, it didnt work out and there was a 20% refund. It not easy to refund money once you have started a business, and are going along. If we were really in this together and this shit didnt work out its like oh well, well hit me up if you need a favor. Offer what ever you can to make it right. No one ever asked me like hey can you get me a programmer or maybe facilitate a transaction somehow without charging me fees? so quick to blame and act like isolated from the business, but if it took off and we were making money you would be all over it, like you were really taking responsibility and risk lol. Its not like that money went to only equipment, I bet some got spent on other shit too.
This isnt a highly regulated market, Im sorry for that. If it was I would of kept better records, but I didnt, because I straight up didnt have too.

You guys are to much.
This community is the one that has floundered, terrified of the big bad scam. paranoid to where you wont even move forward. So quick to blame, cant even take logical variables into consideration.

"you guys used to be cool" lol

Anyways Im done, this isnt somewhere that spawns revolutionary ideas anymore, but it has become a stagnate pool of paranoia.

Its funny you say this.  Its asshats like you that cause the paranoia.  Taking money, refusing to provide records, getting pissy, then leaving. Here's a recent quote from you:

I will do my best to itemize everything that was bought and sold.
My electricity cost here was a major reason the mining did not work, and id say over the two months there was a decent portion spent on that. (Maybe 10%)

Anyways, I didnt purchase anything for myself ( like a scammer would) or cash out any money to cash unless to buy parts. so most everything should be accountable.

One could reasonably argue that its management's fault this failed.

[imsaguy]

He was last active on    June 30, 2012, 08:04:03 PM.  My guess is he won't be back as WiseOldOwl.

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

This.

Building up a new account to scam the community again. Beware.

He was last active on    June 30, 2012, 08:04:03 PM.  My guess is he won't be back as WiseOldOwl.