What is needed in an auction site.

[Anonymous]

If there was a site like ebay where the seller could set the percentage of digital currency they would accept for a product they are selling it would be easier to test the water with bitcoin.The seller could accept say 20% per cent bitcoin and 80% liberty reserve or paypal or any other payment type they wanted.If this value could be set when you listed your products for sale easily this would be a great way to get the bitcoin ball rolling.Basically it has to be as easy and see through a process for buyer and seller as buying something on amazon or ebay currently is.The more difficult it is made the more friction there will be to acceptance.People are naturally lazy when it comes to online behaviour.Look at amazon's one click buying.I like the quote from steve jobs who says if you see a button you have failed  

[lachesis]

I like the idea, and I think keeping it simple is an incredibly good idea. I wish you much support in creating such an auction site!

[SmokeTooMuch]

sounds interesting, maybe the already existing bitcoin auction house (some .onion-adress i cant remember, but can be found here in the forums) can use that idea.

[chaord]

I'm quite new to BC, but I've been lurking on the forums for a week or so catching up on technical issues and most importantly practical issues when it comes time to scaling BC beyond the geek community (myself included).  I too like the idea of an auction site.  Something like http://www.listia.com would be perfect, but with BC instead of centrally controlled and issued "listia credits."

On the other hand, I think it might be a better idea to actually plan out an auction site, complete with voluntary transaction arbitration/escrow to instill the kind of confidence that will make BC famous .  Right now when people hear the word "decentralized" they probably think of something quite chaotic.  I think if there is a framework by which we can provide anonymous arbitration services (agreed to by both parties prior to transacting) along with escrow services (again agreed to in advance), this could go a long way towards a fully functioning market-anarchy economy.  Anonymous Escrow and Arbitration Services would pop up and compete, and people would migrate towards the services that best fit their moral framework and privacy ideals. I like it.

Thoughts?

[sirius]

If there was a site like ebay where the seller could set the percentage of digital currency they would accept for a product they are selling it would be easier to test the water with bitcoin.The seller could accept say 20% per cent bitcoin and 80% liberty reserve or paypal or any other payment type they wanted.If this value could be set when you listed your products for sale easily this would be a great way to get the bitcoin ball rolling.Basically it has to be as easy and see through a process for buyer and seller as buying something on amazon or ebay currently is.The more difficult it is made the more friction there will be to acceptance.People are naturally lazy when it comes to online behaviour.Look at amazon's one click buying.I like the quote from steve jobs who says if you see a button you have failed  

Having to pay for the same product with two payment methods would be disapproved by Steve Jobs.

I think the best idea is to sell stuff at Craigslist or some other place where you can define the price in BTC. Or you could say the price in dollars but require the corresponding amount in bitcoins for payment.

[Anonymous]

I'm quite new to BC, but I've been lurking on the forums for a week or so catching up on technical issues and most importantly practical issues when it comes time to scaling BC beyond the geek community (myself included).  I too like the idea of an auction site.  Something like http://www.listia.com would be perfect, but with BC instead of centrally controlled and issued "listia credits."
 
On the other hand, I think it might be a better idea to actually plan out an auction site, complete with voluntary transaction arbitration/escrow to instill the kind of confidence that will make BC famous .  Right now when people hear the word "decentralized" they probably think of something quite chaotic.  I think if there is a framework by which we can provide anonymous arbitration services (agreed to by both parties prior to transacting) along with escrow services (again agreed to in advance), this could go a long way towards a fully functioning market-anarchy economy.  Anonymous Escrow and Arbitration Services would pop up and compete, and people would migrate towards the services that best fit their moral framework and privacy ideals. I like it.

Thoughts?

listia looks like an awesome idea.Its like a cross between freecycle and ebay.

I have an idea that could work with reverse auctions using bitcoins.If anyone wants to implement it  I can provide  hosting and a domain name for it.All you have to do is design and code it....and share in future revenues   

This service names the lowest price for a product that you desire to buy. As a result various sellers compete among themselves to meet and beat the lowest price in order to sell you their product. At the end, the lowest bidder wins the auction


You  describe the item that you would like to purchase. You name the price (maximum that you are willing to pay).

Multiple sellers offer you the desired product at competitive prices.

The seller who posts the lowest bid is the winner of an auction. The buyer has the right to cancel a transaction with any user they are uncomfortable completing a transaction with.
   
You, as a buyer, will receive contact information  about the seller and you are welcome to contact him/her at this time.

At this stage, the buyer will make the arrangements in providing the payment to the seller in order to complete the transaction.

After receiving the funds, the seller is responsible for packaging and shipping the product directly to the buyer. It is highly advised that the seller gets the tracking number from the shipping company in case there is a problem.

Upon receiving the package from the seller, the transaction is considered complete. Both buyers and sellers are welcome to post a feedback about the party.



1. Buyers - Posting an Order is Free.

2. Sellers - Displaying items for sale is Free.

3. Sellers - Bidding on items at online reverse auctions is Free.

Buyers pay a service fee a percentage of the lowest bid. The service will then provide you with the sellers contact information (name, address, telephone and email) to complete the sale.
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Extra ideas for future implementation-
You could have verified members with badges who have confirmed their credit card and address details for a small transaction fee that would give them a verified members badge.

You could give people bitcoins in sign up fees or a referral program for bitcoins to encourage new users.

You could have a database of previously successful suppliers people could invite to their auction.

 To encourage community building you could let people donate bitcoins to each other as they do on this forum 

I imagine you could partner/advertise with other bitcoin sites that you could refer people to for managing bitcoin purchases.


What problems can you see with such a model?Do you have any ideas that could make this better?

[Babylon]

The obvious problem is how to deal with scammers.  IE those who sell an item but do not actually deliver it.

This can be remedied in various ways, E-bay uses a rating system, which is a good idea.  The problem is that with the complete anonymity of bitcoins scammer sellers would simply make a new account.  Making accounts in some way not anonymous, and in need of verification, could, perhaps, be a solution to this problem.

[Anonymous]

The obvious problem is how to deal with scammers.  IE those who sell an item but do not actually deliver it.

This can be remedied in various ways, E-bay uses a rating system, which is a good idea.  The problem is that with the complete anonymity of bitcoins scammer sellers would simply make a new account.  Making accounts in some way not anonymous, and in need of verification, could, perhaps, be a solution to this problem.

It is probably the only way it is possible.A web of trust might also be needed.

[FreeMoney]

The obvious problem is how to deal with scammers.  IE those who sell an item but do not actually deliver it.

This can be remedied in various ways, E-bay uses a rating system, which is a good idea.  The problem is that with the complete anonymity of bitcoins scammer sellers would simply make a new account.  Making accounts in some way not anonymous, and in need of verification, could, perhaps, be a solution to this problem.

If lots of scammers are making new accounts then the value of having an older established account with a good rep will go up. Obviously we'll occasionally have to trust newbies to get things started, but you can start dealing with them with smaller amounts. I don't think it's a fundamental problem is all, solutions can be found.

The value of BTC has risen a lot in the few days I've been here. I notice lots of prices that are high now because people aren't used to adjusting downward quickly. Obviously the increase in value will slow down, but in a longish auction you might end up getting bids in the beginning and then no more because the BTC are more deal at the end of the auction than they were at the beginning. I'm not really saying much here, just that I'd expect people to prefer short auction lengths. Of course not too short because you want enough people to see it before it goes offline.

[Stone Man]

The value of BTC has risen a lot in the few days I've been here. I notice lots of prices that are high now because people aren't used to adjusting downward quickly. Obviously the increase in value will slow down, but in a longish auction you might end up getting bids in the beginning and then no more because the BTC are more deal at the end of the auction than they were at the beginning. I'm not really saying much here, just that I'd expect people to prefer short auction lengths. Of course not too short because you want enough people to see it before it goes offline.

This is true. What I would like to see is a listing service like http://www.craigslist.org/about/sites with a feedback system like ebay.
The prices could be listed in National currencies and then the payment accepted via bitcoins at the current market rate. This way some one could immediately turn them back into the cash they are used to using until BTC becomes more widely accepted.

[Anonymous]

The value of BTC has risen a lot in the few days I've been here. I notice lots of prices that are high now because people aren't used to adjusting downward quickly. Obviously the increase in value will slow down, but in a longish auction you might end up getting bids in the beginning and then no more because the BTC are more deal at the end of the auction than they were at the beginning. I'm not really saying much here, just that I'd expect people to prefer short auction lengths. Of course not too short because you want enough people to see it before it goes offline.

This is true. What I would like to see is a listing service like http://www.craigslist.org/about/sites with a feedback system like ebay.
The prices could be listed in National currencies and then the payment accepted via bitcoins at the current market rate. This way some one could immediately turn them back into the cash they are used to using until BTC becomes more widely accepted.

This sounds ideal.I used to have a site that you could post your products on and set your own price.You could pay for featured listings for a fee.
If you could get dynamically updating exchange rates and add to such a site it would be good for end users and allow them to see conversion rates easily.For instance they have their accepted price in their accepted currency and the price of other currencies automatically changes as the exchange rates change.Their price in their accepted currency would remain the same and the buyers could easily see the price they need to pay in whatever currency they choose without having to do conversion calculations.Like a stock ticker in real time where the different currencies fluctuate and adjust to each other.This would be a sweet system.Craigslist does not have this capability.

[FreeMoney]

The value of BTC has risen a lot in the few days I've been here. I notice lots of prices that are high now because people aren't used to adjusting downward quickly. Obviously the increase in value will slow down, but in a longish auction you might end up getting bids in the beginning and then no more because the BTC are more deal at the end of the auction than they were at the beginning. I'm not really saying much here, just that I'd expect people to prefer short auction lengths. Of course not too short because you want enough people to see it before it goes offline.

The prices could be listed in National currencies and then the payment accepted via bitcoins at the current market rate. This way some one could immediately turn them back into the cash they are used to using until BTC becomes more widely accepted.

I don't think this is so good because there is no one market rate. There are and will be multiple exchange markets that have different 'last' trades due to different closing times, down times, random large orders to buy or sell pushing prices temporarily apart. Arbitrage seekers will move them together over time, but while the markets are so thin you can have moves of 20% in minutes.

I think it's best to quote a price, but note that it's subject to change.

Maybe when buyers make offers in terms of BTC they should give an expiry time or date at which they are no longer committed to buying at that price.

[NewLibertyStandard]

I sold a gift card and listed the price in dollars worth of bitcoins at the market price, but only while the Bitcoin Market was open. I didn't consider the transaction complete until I had received the bitcoins, sold the bitcoins on the Bitcoin Market and received payment for my bitcoins on the Bitcoin Market. It made the transaction a bit slower, but overall worked quite well because I got exactly the dollar amount I wanted and the buyer didn't have to pay a single bitcoin more than the dollar amount. If the buyer hadn't believed something about my sale on the Bitcoin Market, I think the administrator there might have vouched that I had really sold a certain amount of bitcoins at a certain rate at a certain time. That's not really the Bitcoin Market admin's job, but I think he probably doesn't mind going a bit out of his way for reliable traders during extenuating circumstances.

[Babylon]

I sold a gift card and listed the price in dollars worth of bitcoins at the market price, but only while the Bitcoin Market was open. I didn't consider the transaction complete until I had received the bitcoins, sold the bitcoins on the Bitcoin Market and received payment for my bitcoins on the Bitcoin Market. It made the transaction a bit slower, but overall worked quite well because I got exactly the dollar amount I wanted and the buyer didn't have to pay a single bitcoin more than the dollar amount. If the buyer hadn't believed something about my sale on the Bitcoin Market, I think the administrator there might have vouched that I had really sold a certain amount of bitcoins at a certain rate at a certain time. That's not really the Bitcoin Market admin's job, but I think he probably doesn't mind going a bit out of his way for reliable traders during extenuating circumstances.

I think this is a mentality that we will need to avoid in the longrun if we are going to have this take off as an independent currency.  Easy exchanges for dollars are good, pegging the bitcoin to the dollar for sales, not so good.

[Anonymous]

I sold a gift card and listed the price in dollars worth of bitcoins at the market price, but only while the Bitcoin Market was open. I didn't consider the transaction complete until I had received the bitcoins, sold the bitcoins on the Bitcoin Market and received payment for my bitcoins on the Bitcoin Market. It made the transaction a bit slower, but overall worked quite well because I got exactly the dollar amount I wanted and the buyer didn't have to pay a single bitcoin more than the dollar amount. If the buyer hadn't believed something about my sale on the Bitcoin Market, I think the administrator there might have vouched that I had really sold a certain amount of bitcoins at a certain rate at a certain time. That's not really the Bitcoin Market admin's job, but I think he probably doesn't mind going a bit out of his way for reliable traders during extenuating circumstances.

I think this is a mentality that we will need to avoid in the longrun if we are going to have this take off as an independent currency.  Easy exchanges for dollars are good, pegging the bitcoin to the dollar for sales, not so good.

What about the middle man in this scenario?.Someone pays me bitcoins at the market rate and I purchase the goods/services for them.I then sell the bitcoins so that I can buy more products for more customers(cash flow), and my customer can buy products with bitcoins without needing an account or paying transaction fees.I wouldn't intentionally make a loss as I dont consider myself a charity .This seems like everyone wins to me at this stage where you need to purchase products with fiat currency.My costs are covered by the company selling the products and this means everyone wins and no one is disadvantaged.(The only one who loses is the tax man if I dont declare the income from the sale)

The ultimate goal is to not need to transfer bitcoins to cash at all but to transfer it to real money such as gold and silver....

[Babylon]

I sold a gift card and listed the price in dollars worth of bitcoins at the market price, but only while the Bitcoin Market was open. I didn't consider the transaction complete until I had received the bitcoins, sold the bitcoins on the Bitcoin Market and received payment for my bitcoins on the Bitcoin Market. It made the transaction a bit slower, but overall worked quite well because I got exactly the dollar amount I wanted and the buyer didn't have to pay a single bitcoin more than the dollar amount. If the buyer hadn't believed something about my sale on the Bitcoin Market, I think the administrator there might have vouched that I had really sold a certain amount of bitcoins at a certain rate at a certain time. That's not really the Bitcoin Market admin's job, but I think he probably doesn't mind going a bit out of his way for reliable traders during extenuating circumstances.

I think this is a mentality that we will need to avoid in the longrun if we are going to have this take off as an independent currency.  Easy exchanges for dollars are good, pegging the bitcoin to the dollar for sales, not so good.

What about the middle man in this scenario?.Someone pays me bitcoins at the market rate and I purchase the goods/services for them.I then sell the bitcoins so that I can buy more products for more customers(cash flow), and my customer can buy products with bitcoins without needing an account or paying transaction fees.I wouldn't intentionally make a loss as I dont consider myself a charity .This seems like everyone wins to me at this stage where you need to purchase products with fiat currency.My costs are covered by the company selling the products and this means everyone wins and no one is disadvantaged.(The only one who loses is the tax man if I dont declare the income from the sale)

The ultimate goal is to not need to transfer bitcoins to cash at all but to transfer it to real money such as gold and silver....

I thought the goal was to trade it for goods and services.  Certainly some of those goods can be gold and silver.

[Anonymous]

The perfect thing for bitcoins is virtual goods.If my wife could buy a sheep on farmville using them I would fear for the health of my bitcoin balance lol.

[Babylon]

The perfect thing for bitcoins is virtual goods.If my wife could buy a sheep on farmville using them I would fear for the health of my bitcoin balance lol.

This sounds like an underserved market.  Are farmville products transferable?

[Anonymous]

The perfect thing for bitcoins is virtual goods.If my wife could buy a sheep on farmville using them I would fear for the health of my bitcoin balance lol.

This sounds like an underserved market.  Are farmville products transferable?

No.I wonder how a game like that would work using bitcoins.Your proof of work would be growing cabbages ,in this case the person who harvested the cabbage would get the bitcoins  

[GAUMZEE]

Hi, I am new at this can anyone tell me if there are auction sites which are accepting bitcoins as a mode of payment also could you please tell me who is their business model different from off-line auction sites.