Why are you still mining on AntPool?

[jonnybravo0311]

Seriously folks.  Why are you mining there?  You are giving up SO MUCH coin.  Here's just the past 24 hours:

In the past 24 hours, Antpool has made 29.50355862BTC for themselves from transaction fees ALONE.  They've solved 17 blocks, which means they've made an average of about 1.74BTC per block.  That turns into 13.88% fees they are charging their miners.

Why are you giving up 13.88% of your income?

Mine on a pool that pays you for your work.

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[yukiko]

How much of their pool total hashrate hashnest?

[binarygold]

Seriously folks.  Why are you mining there?  You are giving up SO MUCH coin.  Here's just the past 24 hours:

In the past 24 hours, Antpool has made 29.50355862BTC for themselves from transaction fees ALONE.  They've solved 17 blocks, which means they've made an average of about 1.74BTC per block.  That turns into 13.88% fees they are charging their miners.

Why are you giving up 13.88% of your income?

Mine on a pool that pays you for your work.

I'm curious to how much of their hashrate is simply b/c they put themselves as the target pool.  I hope/trust users do actually change the payout address to their own, but maybe some see the btc coming to their wallet and think it 'good enough'

i would think readers of this pool sub-forum wouldn't be your target audience - and likely don't use their poo(l)

[snook]

they line up in droves to buy their used miners and mine at the pool.  how greedy can one company be?  boy, we've all come a long way from geeks at our computers mining bitcoin for $10.  only wanting enough bitcoin to buy another gpu for gaming.  but hey,  let's just give them or any other greedy farm corp your money.

Where would these greedy fucks be if Bitcoin was still under $100?   Hmmm  Imagine if the fastest miners were still the usb miners? Then bitcoin wouldn't be in the hands of the wealthy. and still in the hobbyist.

sorry kinda went off track there.  probably not the thread for this  

[jonnybravo0311]

Seriously folks.  Why are you mining there?  You are giving up SO MUCH coin.  Here's just the past 24 hours:

In the past 24 hours, Antpool has made 29.50355862BTC for themselves from transaction fees ALONE.  They've solved 17 blocks, which means they've made an average of about 1.74BTC per block.  That turns into 13.88% fees they are charging their miners.

Why are you giving up 13.88% of your income?

Mine on a pool that pays you for your work.

I'm curious to how much of their hashrate is simply b/c they put themselves as the target pool.  I hope/trust users do actually change the payout address to their own, but maybe some see the btc coming to their wallet and think it 'good enough'

i would think readers of this pool sub-forum wouldn't be your target audience - and likely don't use their poo(l)

That would be an interesting stat... I bet it is a pretty large percentage of the user base that leaves things as they are from the factory.  Investors with too much money, and not enough sense who want to get in on the "Bitcoin thing".

they line up in droves to buy their used miners and mine at the pool.  how greedy can one company be?  boy, we've all come a long way from geeks at our computers mining bitcoin for $10.  only wanting enough bitcoin to buy another gpu for gaming.  but hey,  let's just give them or any other greedy farm corp your money.

Where would these greedy fucks be if Bitcoin was still under $100?   Hmmm  Imagine if the fastest miners were still the usb miners? Then bitcoin wouldn't be in the hands of the wealthy. and still in the hobbyist.

sorry kinda went off track there.  probably not the thread for this 

No problem... preach away .  This thread isn't self-moderated.

[HagssFIN]

I agree this thread 100%.
When you are involved in bitcoin mining you should gain such knowledge to achieve reasonable mining reward and this knowledge includes the fact that it doesn't make any sense to mine at Antpool reward-wise nor it makes no sense bitcoin network -wise.

[yukiko]

With the amount of money they make on their hardware, it is only logical they may have simply converted X percentage of profits to mining on their own pool. A large part could easily just be them privately mining anyhow. Especially since this means, with such a huge network share, they can manipulate the difficulty level to price of bitcoin to help stretch the length of profitability/ROI calculations for selling their hardware.

[os2sam]

only wanting enough bitcoin to buy another gpu for gaming.

Sorry for being a little off topic.

But where can you buy gaming GPU's with Bitcoin?

[snook]

only wanting enough bitcoin to buy another gpu for gaming.

Sorry for being a little off topic.

But where can you buy gaming GPU's with Bitcoin?

in 2010/11.  before the infestation of asic.  back then it was for fun.  Bitcoin was for us geeks....not the rich.

[os2sam]

only wanting enough bitcoin to buy another gpu for gaming.

Sorry for being a little off topic.

But where can you buy gaming GPU's with Bitcoin?

NewEgg takes Bitcoin.  Dang I had just bought a gaming GPU from Amazon too.

[buwaytress]

Just out of curiosity, visited the link in your signature to see your mining pool. Unless stats aren't updated, it seems to show that the last block found was five months ago? I'm all for diversification of hash power but perhaps the reason people go for the biggest pool is simply because of the guarantee of something, no matter how small?

Good luck with bravo pool!

[jonnybravo0311]

Just out of curiosity, visited the link in your signature to see your mining pool. Unless stats aren't updated, it seems to show that the last block found was five months ago? I'm all for diversification of hash power but perhaps the reason people go for the biggest pool is simply because of the guarantee of something, no matter how small?

Good luck with bravo pool!

No, you're not mistaken.  My pool last found a block on 10/12/2016.  I hope you also looked at the minimal hash that is currently pointed to my pool as well.

My point in the original post is, "If all the same miners mining on AntPool were mining on my pool, they would have made 13.88% more BTC".  Well, on my pool it would have been 13.38% since I have a 0.5% fee.

People could be making a ton more coin for their hash, but because they think "OMG bigger is better!" they lose.

[yukiko]

Just out of curiosity, visited the link in your signature to see your mining pool. Unless stats aren't updated, it seems to show that the last block found was five months ago? I'm all for diversification of hash power but perhaps the reason people go for the biggest pool is simply because of the guarantee of something, no matter how small?

Good luck with bravo pool!

No, you're not mistaken.  My pool last found a block on 10/12/2016.  I hope you also looked at the minimal hash that is currently pointed to my pool as well.

My point in the original post is, "If all the same miners mining on AntPool were mining on my pool, they would have made 13.88% more BTC".  Well, on my pool it would have been 13.38% since I have a 0.5% fee.

People could be making a ton more coin for their hash, but because they think "OMG bigger is better!" they lose.

Herd mentality wins out over logic very frequently. You may be right, but not for the first to switch. If one person switches, and the luck continues, their mining return will go from something to zero. You need a lot more than one person to switch. From a ROI standpoint, it is not logical to be the first to switch.

Don't get me wrong - I agree with Antpool is not where the majority should be mining. And your logic is sound if everyone did just go ahead and switch. Implementation of said switch is much more complex.

[jonnybravo0311]

Undoubtedly there needs to be more than one person to switch, all users being equal.  Yes, there are exception scenarios like a miner having 5PH of gear, in which case being the only one to switch would be absolutely beneficial.

Even if miners didn't switch to my pool, there are other options out there.  Obviously as someone who runs a pool I'd love to see more miners use it; however, my initial post wasn't an advertisement for my pool (the advertisement is in my sig).  The initial post is more of a PSA.  Miners (other than Bitmain themselves), no matter how big or small, are guaranteed to lose coin by mining on AntPool.

As somebody pointed out earlier in this thread, people reading it are unlikely to be the target audience.  I'm sure there is a large percentage of hardware owners out there who don't even know of this forum's existence.  I'd bet there is a large percentage of hardware owners who never change a thing when setting up their miners.  They just plug it in and let it rip.  Ok, maybe they do some of the networking stuff - which any sysadmin would be familiar with - but changing mining parameters?  Not in their wheelhouse, so they just leave that stuff alone.  Hey, there are blinking green lights, so it's mining!

[beltsniffer]

Undoubtedly there needs to be more than one person to switch, all users being equal.  Yes, there are exception scenarios like a miner having 5PH of gear, in which case being the only one to switch would be absolutely beneficial.

Even if miners didn't switch to my pool, there are other options out there.  Obviously as someone who runs a pool I'd love to see more miners use it; however, my initial post wasn't an advertisement for my pool (the advertisement is in my sig).  The initial post is more of a PSA.  Miners (other than Bitmain themselves), no matter how big or small, are guaranteed to lose coin by mining on AntPool.

As somebody pointed out earlier in this thread, people reading it are unlikely to be the target audience.  I'm sure there is a large percentage of hardware owners out there who don't even know of this forum's existence.  I'd bet there is a large percentage of hardware owners who never change a thing when setting up their miners.  They just plug it in and let it rip.  Ok, maybe they do some of the networking stuff - which any sysadmin would be familiar with - but changing mining parameters?  Not in their wheelhouse, so they just leave that stuff alone.  Hey, there are blinking green lights, so it's mining!

Just out of curiosity, I googled bitcoin mining pools. Which is probably what I did a few years ago, when I initially started mining and started with Slush. I believe he was running a no fee promo at the time.
Mostly what popped up in in the top 10 were Slush, BTC, GHASH.IO and a couple mining pool comparisons. Both the mining pool comparisons did not include some of the newer pools, including bravo-mining. One was a wiki https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_mining_pools
You might want to get that updated to include your pool. It would probably help our your hashrate.

[Iranus]

Just out of curiosity, visited the link in your signature to see your mining pool. Unless stats aren't updated, it seems to show that the last block found was five months ago? I'm all for diversification of hash power but perhaps the reason people go for the biggest pool is simply because of the guarantee of something, no matter how small?

Good luck with bravo pool!

No, you're not mistaken.  My pool last found a block on 10/12/2016.  I hope you also looked at the minimal hash that is currently pointed to my pool as well.

My point in the original post is, "If all the same miners mining on AntPool were mining on my pool, they would have made 13.88% more BTC".  Well, on my pool it would have been 13.38% since I have a 0.5% fee.

People could be making a ton more coin for their hash, but because they think "OMG bigger is better!" they lose.

I get your point here.  It's also based on some sort of lack of confidence - they don't think that it's feasible for them to break away from the biggest pools but often a better option is right around the corner.  The reality is that if they joined a smaller pool, it would probably benefit them more. 

When people point out that your pool last mined a block a few months ago, they ignore that every pool has to start somewhere and the only solution is for more people to join it.  The problem is that the huge pools always have money to make great promotions, while the most principled people in Bitcoin seldom have money as they never profiteer enough in the first place to make these promotions.  This kind of post is a great way to get the word out about this so I do think it's acceptable for you to be promoting your pool.

[jonnybravo0311]

Undoubtedly there needs to be more than one person to switch, all users being equal.  Yes, there are exception scenarios like a miner having 5PH of gear, in which case being the only one to switch would be absolutely beneficial.

Even if miners didn't switch to my pool, there are other options out there.  Obviously as someone who runs a pool I'd love to see more miners use it; however, my initial post wasn't an advertisement for my pool (the advertisement is in my sig).  The initial post is more of a PSA.  Miners (other than Bitmain themselves), no matter how big or small, are guaranteed to lose coin by mining on AntPool.

As somebody pointed out earlier in this thread, people reading it are unlikely to be the target audience.  I'm sure there is a large percentage of hardware owners out there who don't even know of this forum's existence.  I'd bet there is a large percentage of hardware owners who never change a thing when setting up their miners.  They just plug it in and let it rip.  Ok, maybe they do some of the networking stuff - which any sysadmin would be familiar with - but changing mining parameters?  Not in their wheelhouse, so they just leave that stuff alone.  Hey, there are blinking green lights, so it's mining!

Just out of curiosity, I googled bitcoin mining pools. Which is probably what I did a few years ago, when I initially started mining and started with Slush. I believe he was running a no fee promo at the time.
Mostly what popped up in in the top 10 were Slush, BTC, GHASH.IO and a couple mining pool comparisons. Both the mining pool comparisons did not include some of the newer pools, including bravo-mining. One was a wiki https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_mining_pools
You might want to get that updated to include your pool. It would probably help our your hashrate.

I actually meant to update the wiki a long time ago... just never got to it, and until you just mentioned had completely forgotten about it .  Thanks for the reminder... I'll try to get it updated soon.

Just out of curiosity, visited the link in your signature to see your mining pool. Unless stats aren't updated, it seems to show that the last block found was five months ago? I'm all for diversification of hash power but perhaps the reason people go for the biggest pool is simply because of the guarantee of something, no matter how small?

Good luck with bravo pool!

No, you're not mistaken.  My pool last found a block on 10/12/2016.  I hope you also looked at the minimal hash that is currently pointed to my pool as well.

My point in the original post is, "If all the same miners mining on AntPool were mining on my pool, they would have made 13.88% more BTC".  Well, on my pool it would have been 13.38% since I have a 0.5% fee.

People could be making a ton more coin for their hash, but because they think "OMG bigger is better!" they lose.

I get your point here.  It's also based on some sort of lack of confidence - they don't think that it's feasible for them to break away from the biggest pools but often a better option is right around the corner.  The reality is that if they joined a smaller pool, it would probably benefit them more. 

When people point out that your pool last mined a block a few months ago, they ignore that every pool has to start somewhere and the only solution is for more people to join it.  The problem is that the huge pools always have money to make great promotions, while the most principled people in Bitcoin seldom have money as they never profiteer enough in the first place to make these promotions.  This kind of post is a great way to get the word out about this so I do think it's acceptable for you to be promoting your pool.

The funny thing is the big pools don't typically run promotions, even though they are the ones with the bankroll to do it.

Every promotion I've run has come from my own pocket.  The server costs to keep my pool up are also from my own pocket.  I opened my own pool a year and a half ago to provide people who were getting scammed the choice of an honest pool operator.  I've spent quite a bit of my own time and money to keep things updated, including committing code to the GitHub repositories.

To date, I've given away over 11.5BTC to miners on my pool.

[HagssFIN]

https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-miner-repays-customer-who-accidentally-paid-2-5-bitcoins-transaction-fee/

.... The fee, after having already been dispersed to miners as a mining reward, could have been lost forever. But instead, Bitmain decided to compensate the user for the loss with their own money. In a reply to a service ticket submitted over the issue, Bitmain notified the client of their decision.

Dear Customer,

We are sorry to hear this…

Bitcoin Miner Repays Customer Who Accidentally Paid 2.5 Bitcoins Transaction FeeFirst of all, this mistake caused by himself, and we don’t have responsibility for this. And since now, Antpool has taken PPS+ and PPLNS+ payment method, so his 2.5 bitcoin transaction fee has already paid out to all the miners in Antpool. But thanks for all of your supports and unconditional trust for Antpool and Bitmain, our company has decided to pay his loss.

Looking forward to continuing to build your trust and bringing you more added values through our advanced technology and passion.

Best Wishes,

Hugh

Bitmain

What a hell. They are claiming that miners are getting tx fees in Antpool.

[jonnybravo0311]

Whoever Hugh is, he is outright lying to miners.  Sure, they might have paid that miner back the 2.5BTC fee, but that was not previously disbursed to miners - it was squarely in Bitmain's pockets.  Here's directly from their website (bold text format by me):

Assign to you alter Antpool found a new block and the new block confirmations more than 3 (Transaction fees not paid out to miners for maintaining cost and the bonus for our engineers)
Earnings = 12.5 BTC * Your share count in 2.5 difficulty cycle / Total share count in 2.5 difficulty cycle

Also, check out their blocks... some are voting 1MB... others have no vote.  There is no consistency.

[kano]

Whoever Hugh is, he is outright lying to miners.  Sure, they might have paid that miner back the 2.5BTC fee, but that was not previously disbursed to miners - it was squarely in Bitmain's pockets.  Here's directly from their website (bold text format by me):

Assign to you alter Antpool found a new block and the new block confirmations more than 3 (Transaction fees not paid out to miners for maintaining cost and the bonus for our engineers)
Earnings = 12.5 BTC * Your share count in 2.5 difficulty cycle / Total share count in 2.5 difficulty cycle

Also, check out their blocks... some are voting 1MB... others have no vote.  There is no consistency.

Yeah at current rate that works out about $1million a month they keep