Mining fees will eventually kill bitcoin

[naidray]

you need a large fee to get the trasaction and confirmation that fast. I think this has strayed far from the tagline bitcoin with cheap and fast fee like some years before? lol

Yes that line is out. But it is not bitcoin fault but ours.
Miners just need something to make them work harder. Although it is really bad and kind of greedy and also it is like giving special treatment to those who can afford. What is the difference now between bitcoin transactions and paypal or western union.
I kind of stayed here for that reason at start though it changed from time it is still not a good look.

Yes, eventually that tagline of cheap and fast transactions is being fading because neither they are fast now nor they are cheap. The only solution I see to this problem is limiting the number of transactions people make.

For example you make 10 transactions a day where 3-4 of them are such that you can make them in a single shot then actually that would help. It is like people need to understand how to send multiple payments in a single transaction.

[eternalgloom]

you need a large fee to get the trasaction and confirmation that fast. I think this has strayed far from the tagline bitcoin with cheap and fast fee like some years before? lol

Yes that line is out. But it is not bitcoin fault but ours.
Miners just need something to make them work harder. Although it is really bad and kind of greedy and also it is like giving special treatment to those who can afford. What is the difference now between bitcoin transactions and paypal or western union.
I kind of stayed here for that reason at start though it changed from time it is still not a good look.

Yes, eventually that tagline of cheap and fast transactions is being fading because neither they are fast now nor they are cheap. The only solution I see to this problem is limiting the number of transactions people make.

For example you make 10 transactions a day where 3-4 of them are such that you can make them in a single shot then actually that would help. It is like people need to understand how to send multiple payments in a single transaction.

Transactions are still fast, but to make them fast you do have a pay pretty high fees.
Limiting the number of transactions that people could make isn't really a solution I think. That's one of the key aspects of Bitcoins.

The fact that there are entities spamming the network shouldn't be used to limit the rights of other people, we just need a seperate solution for that.

[CyberKuro]

Now that the SEC has rejected the Winklevoss bitcoin ETF, I decided to actually glance through their S-1 (registration statement) that they filed with the SEC just for the heck of it. The S-1 requires a statement and discussion of possible risks associated with a security that is seeking SEC registration. In the Winklevoss S-1, I found this section particularly noteworthy (emphasis is original):

As the number of Bitcoins awarded for solving a block in the Blockchain decreases, the incentive for miners to continue to contribute processing power to the Bitcoin Network will transition from a set reward to transaction fees. The requirement from miners of higher transaction fees in exchange for recording transactions in the Blockchain may decrease demand for Bitcoins and prevent the expansion of the Bitcoin Network to retail merchants and commercial businesses, resulting in a reduction in the Blended Bitcoin Price.

If transaction fees paid for the recording of transactions in the Blockchain become too high, the marketplace may be reluctant to accept Bitcoins as a means of payment and existing users may be motivated to switch from Bitcoins to another Digital Math-Based Asset or back to fiat currency. Decreased use and demand for Bitcoins may adversely affect their value and result in a reduction in the Blended Bitcoin Price.

Not only is this a risk that they highlighted, my view is this is inevitable, and that mining fees will eventually become prohibitive not only to bitcoin expansion, but everyday bitcoin function. This is the flaw that will eventually render bitcoin unusable for everyday commerce, and the price will decline accordingly as demand for coins falls off as a result.

Mining fees will eventually kill bitcoin, the question is if this is avoidable with some type of change, or a predetermined fate that cannot be altered due to the nature of the ecosystem?

Yes, it's a crucial problem when bitcoin generated by miners decreases overtime which the price of bitcoin will increase so that with the fees. Imagine if you need to pay fee BTC0.0009 equal to $1 to send BTC0.05, but in the future BTC0.0009 may equal to $10, I don't know exactly number, how much we have to pay, but my last transaction takes $1.4 and more than 12 hours to get confirmed, what a loss for bitcoin I thought.

[bohr]

The fact that fee will eventually grow as the reward for mining a block gets lower has always been part of the plan on the development of bitcoin, the issue here is there is not a solution backed by everyone to make bitcoin scale.

[coinplus]

Mining fee is what motivate the miners to keep mining for traders and generally transactions bitcoin are made possible through activities of miners. So without mining no bitcoin and without bitcoin no transactions and without transactions no fee to pay.

LOL, that's really shit. The miners are too greedy to take more fees from every transaction. It looks like they are not care about the bitcoin scalability problem and try to vote on the wrong way and it means killing the bitcoin in the future. I don't agree with your opinion.

Dude you and him are saying the same thing, that higher tx fees means more mining then how you don't agree with him ? Completely wrong assumption actually of you both because there are services like viabtc where they take your transactions and mine them in their block.

Actually I think high tx fees are limiting the number of transactions which indeed is good, tx should be more healthy in amount than in numbers.

[deisik]

Mining fee is what motivate the miners to keep mining for traders and generally transactions bitcoin are made possible through activities of miners. So without mining no bitcoin and without bitcoin no transactions and without transactions no fee to pay.

LOL, that's really shit. The miners are too greedy to take more fees from every transaction. It looks like they are not care about the bitcoin scalability problem and try to vote on the wrong way and it means killing the bitcoin in the future. I don't agree with your opinion.

Dude you and him are saying the same thing, that higher tx fees means more mining then how you don't agree with him ? Completely wrong assumption actually of you both because there are services like viabtc where they take your transactions and mine them in their block.

Actually I think high tx fees are limiting the number of transactions which indeed is good, tx should be more healthy in amount than in numbers

And how can you tell a more healthy transaction from a less healthy one?

You should also take into account that it is still possible to flood the network with spammy transactions of just 1 satoshi each irrespective of whether they have fees or not, or whether miners are going to confirm them or not. In this manner, your distinction between healthy and unhealthy transactions is technically irrelevant. Other than that, the transaction processing network should be organized in such a way that it could digest any number of transactions. In other words, it should be made impervious transaction wise. In practice, that would mean that a spammer wouldn't be able to send more transactions (e.g. due to the limits of his Internet connection) that the network could process

[PokerFace3]

you need a large fee to get the trasaction and confirmation that fast. I think this has strayed far from the tagline bitcoin with cheap and fast fee like some years before? lol

Yes, fees is seemingly more because the price of bitcoins is very high too actually.
If you spend 0.0004 btc fees on a transaction and the rate is $1200 then actually you spend $0.5 on a say around $100 transaction which is still less as compared to paypal who charge like $2 - $3 for the same and yet the reversible worry all the time. But I agree with all that the fees should be reduced somehow please.

[pearlmen]

I don't think the fees will kill bitcoin even in the real world specifically banking sector where mirage of fees is being charged even sometimes enormous, people still use the banks and most times the fees are low compared to the importance of is to be achieved. Aside that, the bank will provide alternative means of reducing the fees and that's exactly what will happen to bitcoin later where other means of reducing the fees will be implemented for everyone use.

[geopolisch]

I don't think the fees will kill bitcoin even in the real world specifically banking sector where mirage of fees is being charged even sometimes enormous, people still use the banks and most times the fees are low compared to the importance of is to be achieved. Aside that, the bank will provide alternative means of reducing the fees and that's exactly what will happen to bitcoin later where other means of reducing the fees will be implemented for everyone use.

We all can agree on the fact that the bitcoin attracted most of us because it was a simple easy fast way of sending money, but with it becoming more popular and the price rising with every day it is starting to take a long time to send it, we used to be able to send bitcoin without fees and we will receive it immediately, but right now with more transactions to deal with and bitcoin getting harder to mine there will be now surprise that we will see the transaction fees also increasing. Miners demand for it.

There is a discussion about using altcoins for small transactions (and bitcoins for just investments) to reduce the network traffic. I am not sure about higher mining fees will not come down or not and persisting at higher level will kill bitcoins, only time may answer.

[ImHash]

Before the 21M bitcoins being totally mined I'm sure till then technology advances enough to fork bitcoin using new methods/technologies.
So ETF was only rejected because of the state of the network 100 years from now?

[Xester]

I don't think the fees will kill bitcoin even in the real world specifically banking sector where mirage of fees is being charged even sometimes enormous, people still use the banks and most times the fees are low compared to the importance of is to be achieved. Aside that, the bank will provide alternative means of reducing the fees and that's exactly what will happen to bitcoin later where other means of reducing the fees will be implemented for everyone use.

We all can agree on the fact that the bitcoin attracted most of us because it was a simple easy fast way of sending money, but with it becoming more popular and the price rising with every day it is starting to take a long time to send it, we used to be able to send bitcoin without fees and we will receive it immediately, but right now with more transactions to deal with and bitcoin getting harder to mine there will be now surprise that we will see the transaction fees also increasing. Miners demand for it.

There is a discussion about using altcoins for small transactions (and bitcoins for just investments) to reduce the network traffic. I am not sure about higher mining fees will not come down or not and persisting at higher level will kill bitcoins, only time may answer.

We dont need to worry anymore about higher fees. If you have heard that bitcoin unlimited has lost its battle against the core developers then bitcoin will take a twist as segwit will be used in mining and the blocks will be increased and transactions will be processed much faster. Sooner or later lower mining fees will be implemented and all of us will be happy.

[truimpheriues]

this now problem not only mining fee
but this now big problem about bitcoin unlimited and follower, bitcoin price is down because about bitcoin unlimited issue
The first problem to be solved about bitcoin unlimited, and then about fee and fast time transaction

[Kabul]

this now problem not only mining fee
but this now big problem about bitcoin unlimited and follower, bitcoin price is down because about bitcoin unlimited issue
The first problem to be solved about bitcoin unlimited, and then about fee and fast time transaction

Only the people accept segwit will this problem be solved. I can not believe that those lunatics keep believing in Bitcoin unlimited blindly. It is a tool for the China to control the whole Bitcoin system. It will eventually kill Bitcoin if it is activated in the future.

[LoyceV]

I get the feeling wallets are "overdoing" fees when it's totally unnecessary.

1. There are currently 1480 Unconfirmed Transactions.
2. bitcoinfees.21.co claims the "fastest and cheapest" transaction fee is 220 satoshi/byte, resulting in 49,720 satoshis for a 226 bytes transaction. (is this site owned by miners?)
3. btc.com says the current best transaction fee is 20 satoshis/byte, less than 10% of the recommendation from bullet point 2:

The above screenshot shows that most transactions with less than 10 satoshi per byte confirm quickly.

Now, what fees were used in the last 4 blocks?
457952: 55987037 satoshis for 998.18 KB resulting in 54.8 sat/byte
457951: 141344188 satoshis for 998.064 KB resulting in 138.3 sat/byte
457950: 206531288 satoshis for 998.136 KB resulting in 202.1 sat/byte
457949: 171280224 satoshis for 996.719 KB resulting in 167.8 sat/byte

I can only conclude wallet software is now massively over-estimating the required fee for a fast transaction, and we're all paying much more fees than needed when there aren't many unconfirmed transactions waiting.
And even worse, when there are a many transactions waiting, these same fees still mean we wait long.

[deisik]

I don't think the fees will kill bitcoin even in the real world specifically banking sector where mirage of fees is being charged even sometimes enormous, people still use the banks and most times the fees are low compared to the importance of is to be achieved. Aside that, the bank will provide alternative means of reducing the fees and that's exactly what will happen to bitcoin later where other means of reducing the fees will be implemented for everyone use.

We all can agree on the fact that the bitcoin attracted most of us because it was a simple easy fast way of sending money, but with it becoming more popular and the price rising with every day it is starting to take a long time to send it, we used to be able to send bitcoin without fees and we will receive it immediately, but right now with more transactions to deal with and bitcoin getting harder to mine there will be now surprise that we will see the transaction fees also increasing. Miners demand for it.

There is a discussion about using altcoins for small transactions (and bitcoins for just investments) to reduce the network traffic. I am not sure about higher mining fees will not come down or not and persisting at higher level will kill bitcoins, only time may answer.

We dont need to worry anymore about higher fees. If you have heard that bitcoin unlimited has lost its battle against the core developers then bitcoin will take a twist as segwit will be used in mining and the blocks will be increased and transactions will be processed much faster. Sooner or later lower mining fees will be implemented and all of us will be happy

I'm also expecting something to that tune

I read an article yesterday which claimed that supermajority of Bitcoin full nodes are SegWit ready already. So whatever fork mining pools might choose to use in the end, their decision will be irrelevant if these nodes (read ordinary Bitcoin users like you and me) won't support it. If they start mining their alt-Bitcoin but folks won't take it (read vote against it with their money), these mining pools will end up shooting themselves in the foot, and they will be simply losing real money, time and effort mining useless and worthless coin. In short, more power to the them

[Paid Piper]

I don't think the fees will kill bitcoin even in the real world specifically banking sector where mirage of fees is being charged even sometimes enormous, people still use the banks and most times the fees are low compared to the importance of is to be achieved. Aside that, the bank will provide alternative means of reducing the fees and that's exactly what will happen to bitcoin later where other means of reducing the fees will be implemented for everyone use.

i also do not think that the transaction fee is going to kill bitcoin, but i think it will effect bitcoin too much. i think it is too much important that that fee should be minim and should not be increasing so frequently if you want to see bitcoin as more reliable and trusted.

[lionheart78]

you need a large fee to get the trasaction and confirmation that fast. I think this has strayed far from the tagline bitcoin with cheap and fast fee like some years before? lol

Yes that line is out. But it is not bitcoin fault but ours.
Miners just need something to make them work harder. Although it is really bad and kind of greedy and also it is like giving special treatment to those who can afford. What is the difference now between bitcoin transactions and paypal or western union.
I kind of stayed here for that reason at start though it changed from time it is still not a good look.

Yes, eventually that tagline of cheap and fast transactions is being fading because neither they are fast now nor they are cheap. The only solution I see to this problem is limiting the number of transactions people make.

For example you make 10 transactions a day where 3-4 of them are such that you can make them in a single shot then actually that would help. It is like people need to understand how to send multiple payments in a single transaction.

I think Bitcoin is still cheap today, but faster seems to be fading due to lots of unconfirmed transaction or even delayed for several days.  The Bitcoin developer should act fast to have a consensus on how to solve this problem.  The situation is not funny anymore.   And limiting transaction does not solve the problem, besides this action will be annoying to people who loves to move their Bitcoin around, either by playing gambling games, shopping online or investing in trades and other business ventures.  Do not limit Bitcoins movement, it is healthy for the network.

[andron8383]

***
There is a discussion about using altcoins for small transactions (and bitcoins for just investments) to reduce the network traffic. I am not sure about higher mining fees will not come down or not and persisting at higher level will kill bitcoins, only time may answer.

If Segwit will be available and then LN will be used as same as alt-coins you propose.
If BTC will scary people from using BTC to expensive people will switch to alts ( such like LN )
Then people will have people if convert such alt again into BTC, because at time when needed BTC is just not useful anymore.
I would go into crore segwit proposal then LN.
LN will act like alts today,Many people today chose ETH/Doge/Dash because fees are ridiculous and confirmation times.
If user have shit product like BTC now and swith to alt like ETH he won't come back guys.
Such guy can go back when major ETH network issue accure and BTC will have stuff like LN.

[megynacuna]

I don't think the fees will kill bitcoin even in the real world specifically banking sector where mirage of fees is being charged even sometimes enormous, people still use the banks and most times the fees are low compared to the importance of is to be achieved. Aside that, the bank will provide alternative means of reducing the fees and that's exactly what will happen to bitcoin later where other means of reducing the fees will be implemented for everyone use.

It will kill Bitcoin in the sense that it will kill people's interest especially the newbies and the yet to know people, but we know together we form the decentralized technology behind Bitcoin and so if we loose the numbers we loose Bitcoin. Secondly comparing Bitcoin to fiat doesn't add up here because with the banks and the fiat you know people have no choice than to use it in their daily activities but with Bitcoin they can choose to abandon it if the fees are high so I think we should know where to draw the line.

[andron8383]

***

It will kill Bitcoin in the sense that it will kill people's interest especially the newbies and the yet to know people, but we know together we form the decentralized technology behind Bitcoin and so if we loose the numbers we loose Bitcoin. Secondly comparing Bitcoin to fiat doesn't add up here because with the banks and the fiat you know people have no choice than to use it in their daily activities but with Bitcoin they can choose to abandon it if the fees are high so I think we should know where to draw the line.

I think that main line you see already that cap BTC have. Without any changes i don't see major BTC rise against inflation.
BTC today stay at limit that alone without community Segwit/LN or BU it won't pass.
Once you stop evolving you will slide down because ctypo won't wait for BTC.
This is like EU all see its dying bu noone can pass changes and only fall can bring revolution.
Same time countries in Asia don't wait for EU and evolve and have +5 GDP.

Alts will improve because of high competition in market share, BTC will fall slowly off even from mainstream radars.
I want BU miners make HF and move on their own chain, let other create segwit/LN and we will see what market will chose.
Enchanted BTC core or forked alt BU if this is only solution let it be, best chain will win.