Bitcoin will save the elite.

[paul gatt]

It must be confirmed that officials use bitcoin to wash money. They use it to hide the amount of money they have corrupted, which is one of the reasons why bitcoin is strongly accepted in China. That's a bad thing, I hate corrupt people and the consequences they cause. Most seriously, bitcoin can be ruined if this behavior happens continuously. Civilians are unaware of the bitcoin, so there are very few who use it, officials and the rich are the main users, and they use it for corruption.

[Amph]

i'm not with what you said, bitcoin is helping indeed the poor, unless you think that they are the one puping and helping the rich get even more richer

what i think is the opposite, the rich are the oen that buy and play against other rich people, while the poorer are take advantage of this by making easy profit

unlike in the fiat money where the rich are literally becoming more richer because they get the money from the poorer, i'm talking about the politician which are overpaid for example

[Yuuto]

The bigger idea of Bitcoin is that it will challenge the corruption of central banks and destroy the system that keep the masses poor while passing free printed money to themselves and their banks. Problem is I don't see Bitcoin ever being mass adopted. What I do see is the very rich and often corrupt (Chinese officials for example) using it to shelter their money. Bitcoin will sadly end up being the elites version of prepping, the average man in the street won't be holding Bitcoin but their own dicks come the economic collapse that is coming.

In short Bitcoin will help many of the super rich become richer...that's all.

Yeah but think about the positives that bitcoin provide.

-Anonymous transactions
-Instant transactions throughout the globe, no matter where you are
-Essentially no fees, except for less than a dollar in miner fees, which doesn't increase as your transaction amount goes up
-Anyone that has internet can access it.

Think about how people can save big on transferring money just to relatives worldwide.

Just average people that do not have much wealth.

[Fatoshi]

I'm not in any way knocking Bitcoin, if everyone in the world used it I would be a happy man. My point is the big meme for Bitcoin was the end of printed money and a rebalancing of economic disparity etc. My point is in reality it's more likely it will end up serving to widen the wealth and technologically poor gap if anything. Dont forget half the world doesn't have the Internet.


Anecdotal points about some making money isn't the point, I'm talking big picture of reality.


In my opinion Bitcoin will never be used by the masses, it will be a plaything for the richer elite.

[Fatoshi]

The bigger idea of Bitcoin is that it will challenge the corruption of central banks and destroy the system that keep the masses poor while passing free printed money to themselves and their banks. Problem is I don't see Bitcoin ever being mass adopted. What I do see is the very rich and often corrupt (Chinese officials for example) using it to shelter their money. Bitcoin will sadly end up being the elites version of prepping, the average man in the street won't be holding Bitcoin but their own dicks come the economic collapse that is coming.

In short Bitcoin will help many of the super rich become richer...that's all.

Yeah but think about the positives that bitcoin provide.

-Anonymous transactions
-Instant transactions throughout the globe, no matter where you are
-Essentially no fees, except for less than a dollar in miner fees, which doesn't increase as your transaction amount goes up
-Anyone that has internet can access it.

Think about how people can save big on transferring money just to relatives worldwide.

Just average people that do not have much wealth.

I'm talking without facts but I almost guarantee the average joe poor guy in say America isn't going to use Bitcoin anytime soon....generally speaking.

[dinofelis]

The average man in the street won't be holding Bitcoin but their own dicks come the economic collapse that is coming.

In short Bitcoin will help many of the super rich become richer...that's all.

This is an interesting point. And it's definitely true that bitcoin can make the rich become richer, it's not because it's bitcoin. It's because to make money you gotta have money. Any investment can make the rich richer because they have more money to use to leverage the upside potential of the investment.

What is funny in this whole discussion, is the idea that one "becomes rich with bitcoin".  How does one become rich with bitcoin ?  By selling it to a greater fool.  If bitcoin were a CURRENCY, it would be simply an intermediate asset that helped a trade.  But if bitcoin is a speculative greater-fool asset, then you can become rich with it.

How ?

1) by being an early adopter.  That means, by having been a geek at the right moment with the right information.  If these people become the new elite, that's just replacing an elite with another one (Winkelvoss brothers ?).

2) by trading with inside information (when you can manipulate markets).  You can only win in a market for sure, if you have information others don't.  The poor guy doesn't.  If he starts trading bitcoin, he will just pump his money into those that have information.

So bitcoin as a vehicle to become rich through seigniorage (early adopters), or inside information (market manipulators) is just going to make a new elite, partially the old elite btw, and a few new bourgeois, who know how to play best the greater-fool game.

It is not going to relieve poverty problems in Africa, for instance.  

[dinofelis]

The bigger idea of Bitcoin is that it will challenge the corruption of central banks and destroy the system that keep the masses poor while passing free printed money to themselves and their banks. Problem is I don't see Bitcoin ever being mass adopted. What I do see is the very rich and often corrupt (Chinese officials for example) using it to shelter their money. Bitcoin will sadly end up being the elites version of prepping, the average man in the street won't be holding Bitcoin but their own dicks come the economic collapse that is coming.

In short Bitcoin will help many of the super rich become richer...that's all.

Yeah but think about the positives that bitcoin provide.

-Anonymous transactions

Sending your transaction in an open ledger to be seen by the whole world and graved in stone for ever, is not exactly what I would call "anonymous"  

Bitcoin's somewhat naive ledger tech is way, way, way worse concerning privacy than fiat.  With fiat, only your bank knows, and justice, if they ask.  With bitcoin, everyone knows.  And block chain analysis WILL tie your address to your identity.  The information is propagated on the chain, and more and more of it is available.

[Reid]

I dont entirely agree with this.
Okay it is really expensive now and poor people cannot afford it anymore.
But what about those who are beta users and still holds it up until now.
They aint rich people, actually they are the one who hoped it could rise like this.
Even those who risked their money when bitcoin was so unstable and risk it even more besides the truth that it fell down to a very low price.
Courageous people will benefit from it. Not really the rich ones.

[Kasabus]

I have to respect your opinion but I'm pretty sure bitcoin will be for everyone, those who like to be rich and those rich who want to be richer.
Bitcoin offers equal opportunity and if you believe it will only make the rich richer, how would you describe those early adopters who are already millionaires or billionaires now.

Think about that, that is a complex example and to be realistic, bitcoin will not eliminate the corrupt central bank as no way it can compete with fiat.

[Fatoshi]

I have to respect your opinion but I'm pretty sure bitcoin will be for everyone, those who like to be rich and those rich who want to be richer.
Bitcoin offers equal opportunity and if you believe it will only make the rich richer, how would you describe those early adopters who are already millionaires or billionaires now.

Think about that, that is a complex example and to be realistic, bitcoin will not eliminate the corrupt central bank as no way it can compete with fiat.

Two major problems with Bitcoin that means it won't go mainstream is.

1. Not scalable so will never be a viable payment system for billions of people.

2. People might use some middle man but I can't see people using a system where if you make a mistake sending money you can't retrieve it. Imagine some ones parents accidentally sending their life's savings because they got a decimal point wrong.


I don't see my points as a discussion, they are facts. It's just interesting the reality is different from the vision and belief about Bitcoin.

[Pursuer]

The bigger idea of Bitcoin is that it will challenge the corruption of central banks and destroy the system that keep the masses poor while passing free printed money to themselves and their banks.

bitcoin may be doing this somehow but it is not the main idea of it.

Problem is I don't see Bitcoin ever being mass adopted.

care to explain "WHY" you think it will never be mass adopted?

What I do see is the very rich and often corrupt (Chinese officials for example) using it to shelter their money.

very rich and corrupt people have lots of money, and for that they are using the stable priced Gold or Fiat not something that is way too volatile.
if you invest 100 million dollars in bitcoin and price goes from $1250 to $1200 you will lose 4 million dollars. simple and fast.

Bitcoin will sadly end up being the elites version of prepping, the average man in the street won't be holding Bitcoin but their own dicks come the economic collapse that is coming.
In short Bitcoin will help many of the super rich become richer...that's all.

again you are just making an statement without any explanation of "WHY"!

A handful of people have become rich but very few, what you mean is some people have made like a million dollars or two. That buys a nice car and a small apartment in major cities of the world IF that.....that's not the real global rich I'm talking about. Buts sure it's helps us guys involved in it in more modest ways....but my point is we are a small group, not the masses.

bitcoin is not supposed to make you rich!
and from an investment standpoint, there is always only a few handful of people who get rich but nobody is preventing others from doing the same as them.

I, as a regular Joe, invested in bitcoin back when it was $200 about 2 or 3 years ago and in that time I have made 525% profit. nobody forced me or prevented me from doing that.
am I rich and/or corrupt?!!

if I had bought 1BTC I could make ~$1000 profit and if had bought 100BTC I could have made ~$100,000 profit and so on.

[pinkpanther03]

The bigger idea of Bitcoin is that it will challenge the corruption of central banks and destroy the system that keep the masses poor while passing free printed money to themselves and their banks. Problem is I don't see Bitcoin ever being mass adopted. What I do see is the very rich and often corrupt (Chinese officials for example) using it to shelter their money. Bitcoin will sadly end up being the elites version of prepping, the average man in the street won't be holding Bitcoin but their own dicks come the economic collapse that is coming.

In short Bitcoin will help many of the super rich become richer...that's all.

I don't agreed that bitcoin will help many of the elite people, actually from 2009 those poor people who believed in bitcoin and continue working it up to the present time they are now rich because of Bitcoin. But I agreed that bitcoin can change the corruption of central banks and destroy the system too because of the decentralization which bitcoin has.

[dinofelis]

Two major problems with Bitcoin that means it won't go mainstream is.

1. Not scalable so will never be a viable payment system for billions of people.

2. People might use some middle man but I can't see people using a system where if you make a mistake sending money you can't retrieve it. Imagine some ones parents accidentally sending their life's savings because they got a decimal point wrong.


I don't see my points as a discussion, they are facts. It's just interesting the reality is different from the vision and belief about Bitcoin.

I fully agree with you.  Single block chain (transaction-ledger) based crypto is not scalable.  If, say, all Germans pay their coffee every morning with bitcoin, that would mean, about 80 million transactions in a few hours.  It would mean the need to grow the chain by about 20 GB every morning.  At bitcoin's pace (10 minute blocks) that would mean 200 MB blocks.  And this, just to have the Germans drink their morning coffee.  If they also pay for their bread, we double.  Simply not feasible in the next two decades.  Add the Chinese and you see the problem.

When you use middle men, I don't see in what way they would be different from current banking.  I would rather trust current banks (even though I'm politically an anarchist) who have tens of years of experience, rather than "a guy on the internet".  There's no reason "a guy on the internet" will be more honest, professional and to be trusted, than a local bank office.

[user27]

It is true that bitcoin will probably benefit the elite more than the average Joe.

That's something that we should work towards. Making sure that we are spreading the word about bitcoin and letting our family members and friends know about the amazing things you can achieve with the bitcoin network.

[Fatoshi]

The bigger idea of Bitcoin is that it will challenge the corruption of central banks and destroy the system that keep the masses poor while passing free printed money to themselves and their banks.

bitcoin may be doing this somehow but it is not the main idea of it.

Problem is I don't see Bitcoin ever being mass adopted.

care to explain "WHY" you think it will never be mass adopted?

What I do see is the very rich and often corrupt (Chinese officials for example) using it to shelter their money.

very rich and corrupt people have lots of money, and for that they are using the stable priced Gold or Fiat not something that is way too volatile.
if you invest 100 million dollars in bitcoin and price goes from $1250 to $1200 you will lose 4 million dollars. simple and fast.

Bitcoin will sadly end up being the elites version of prepping, the average man in the street won't be holding Bitcoin but their own dicks come the economic collapse that is coming.
In short Bitcoin will help many of the super rich become richer...that's all.

again you are just making an statement without any explanation of "WHY"!

A handful of people have become rich but very few, what you mean is some people have made like a million dollars or two. That buys a nice car and a small apartment in major cities of the world IF that.....that's not the real global rich I'm talking about. Buts sure it's helps us guys involved in it in more modest ways....but my point is we are a small group, not the masses.

bitcoin is not supposed to make you rich!
and from an investment standpoint, there is always only a few handful of people who get rich but nobody is preventing others from doing the same as them.

I, as a regular Joe, invested in bitcoin back when it was $200 about 2 or 3 years ago and in that time I have made 525% profit. nobody forced me or prevented me from doing that.
am I rich and/or corrupt?!!

if I had bought 1BTC I could make ~$1000 profit and if had bought 100BTC I could have made ~$100,000 profit and so on.

This isn't a college essay so stop with the attitude I haven't given some airtight academic augment with references and stats. But most of what I said, like bitcoins problems and generally lack of mass adoption etc are known facts as of now. And like I said anecdotes of you or some guy making enough to buy a boat and a sports car doesn't make for an argument, it makes you look stupid.

[Bitcoin Addict666]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=12156.0     havent u heard  ,were going to be the new elite, gentlemen .   on a serious level, u bet  ya  that the elite will be parking there assets into btc.  my plan is to collect as much as i can before this happens.  were all just going to be along for the ride  when big money rolls in.

[Fatoshi]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=12156.0     havent u heard  ,were going to be the new elite, gentlemen .   on a serious level, u bet  ya  that the elite will be parking there assets into btc.  my plan is to collect as much as i can before this happens.  were all just going to be along for the ride  when big money rolls in.

Which is why my point is worth considering as there is a definite opportunity for the little guy to ride of the coat tails if big money dives into Bitcoin In a desperate rush. if they ever approve an ETH it will rocket the price. Could be an incredible trade too, ride up a massive peak and sell out into something more tangible like gold leaving some of the elite holding the biggest bags you could imagine! Haha

[numismatist]

It is true that bitcoin will probably benefit the elite more than the average Joe.

That's something that we should work towards. Making sure that we are spreading the word about bitcoin and letting our family members and friends know about the amazing things you can achieve with the bitcoin network.

Joe is not exactly tech savy, but improves. Ten years ago nobody carried a quadcore computing device around the landscape everywhere he goes. Now they diddle Angry Birds on these.
Beeing elite comes along owning some skills at least.

The thread from the powers in control are targetting the hashrate. Investments into mining equipment had been the improved Joe's job utilizing wood and duct tape and brazing and soldering. This scene changed and that imposes a thread. Concentration and pure monopoly.

[nara1892]

Actually bitcoin is not designed for only elite people, it was created to be used by all of us, and for poor people it can become an opportunity to earn more money for them, so actually it was design for all people it just depends on how the people used bitcoin

that is right. OP sees many rich people use bitcoin because they can see the advantages, but not all the poor ones do not see it yet. however, I saw some people of my country was not rich when they was into bitcoin, and when they got it, they now can earn some bitcoins a month. so it's just the matter how smart we take the advantages.

[sportis]

The bigger idea of Bitcoin is that it will challenge the corruption of central banks and destroy the system that keep the masses poor while passing free printed money to themselves and their banks. Problem is I don't see Bitcoin ever being mass adopted. What I do see is the very rich and often corrupt (Chinese officials for example) using it to shelter their money. Bitcoin will sadly end up being the elites version of prepping, the average man in the street won't be holding Bitcoin but their own dicks come the economic collapse that is coming.

In short Bitcoin will help many of the super rich become richer...that's all.

That can’t possibly be the case. The big picture for someone is completely different for another one. Can you find somewhere in the original paper of Nakamoto something like that ? You claim that poor people will not be saved by bitcoin but only rich ones. Have you ever thought that about 2/3 of world wide people are without bank status? How these people can accept or send money (apart from person to person cash)? Bitcoin gave anyone this opportunity without the need of any bank. On the other side bitcoin is a currency and a commodity like as gold. Does any of these two is free somewhere in the world?