Why dumps are important

[szpalata]

Dumps are important because in trading that is the right time to buy an altcoin then wait for a time to pump the bitcoin price because in that way you can benefit the dumpness of bitcoin where you can earn more money  but make sure that you only buy those high in volume because there are some altcoin has the slow swinging movement.

Well noted with thanks, I think I will need a lesson in trading cryptocurrencies 101. I'm planning to get into active trading of bitcoins in this second half of the year so thanks for sharing and any other ideas will be appreciated. If dumping is good then I'm beginning to suspect that all those Chinese are traders too and they deliberately dump in order to make gains through trading.

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[stadus]

Dumps are important because in trading that is the right time to buy an altcoin then wait for a time to pump the bitcoin price because in that way you can benefit the dumpness of bitcoin where you can earn more money  but make sure that you only buy those high in volume because there are some altcoin has the slow swinging movement.

Well noted with thanks, I think I will need a lesson in trading cryptocurrencies 101. I'm planning to get into active trading of bitcoins in this second half of the year so thanks for sharing and any other ideas will be appreciated. If dumping is good then I'm beginning to suspect that all those Chinese are traders too and they deliberately dump in order to make gains through trading.

Well that how the game being played here, you need to play with them if you want to stay in the game. Trading is fun if you know what you are doing, it is not just all about luck and this market that can be manipulated you need to keep yourself abreast on the real situation that is happening.

[Hydrogen]

Dumps increase volitility.

One might say volitility is what traders rely on to produce profits.

BTC's price fluctuating up and down is easier to trade and profit from than a flat line with small percentage movements.

More dumps could translate to more volitility(and possibly more volume), which in turn translates to btc and altcoins being more attractive to trade for investors.

This could be a good thing, which could imply dumps are good in terms of being volitility inducing.

[sanbashiyi]

Dumps increase volitility.

One might say volitility is what traders rely on to produce profits.

BTC's price fluctuating up and down is easier to trade and profit from than a flat line with small percentage movements.

More dumps could translate to more volitility(and possibly more volume), which in turn translates to btc and altcoins being more attractive to trade for investors.

This could be a good thing, which could imply dumps are good in terms of being volitility inducing.

yes  dumps can let others  have chances to buy some coin , let more people join bitcoin

i don,t think it is  bad

[deisik]

Not a bad idea.
I would add to that that dumps are important because they show the coin is "living".
If we had no dump what so ever how would we make the difference between a succesful coin (no dump cause no one want to let their coin on the market) and a shitty one (no dump cause no one gives a shit about buying it). Dumps regulate the price on the short term and stabilize it on the long term!

Not all dumps are born equal

With a shitty coin, no more dump can only happen when it gets sold for just 1 satoshi in whatever amounts. That essentially means that there are no buyers for that coin altogether since you can't place a bid at a zero price. All shitty coins end up there, and if it doesn't make the final dump, it means that it is not complete shit yet. Obviously, Bitcoin dumps as of late have nothing to do with such final countdowns. I never forget to repeat that the market always fools the majority of traders, and you can be pretty sure that the current consensus on the direction that the price is going to take will be proved wrong once again

It seems you have not visited several exchanges today . After 1 satoshi there is always another market for shitcoin that can be dump to less than 1 satoshi and that would be in Litecoin market Or Dogecoin market or other altcoin market.  Though it is not in Bitcoin but still it can be dump lower than 1 satoshi.  Just look at Mooncoin for example.  It is lower than 1 satoshi in price but still trading at Litecoin Market

A shitcoin will just end up worth nothing

1 satoshi is the lowest price that shitcoin holders can ask to sell it for (in Bitcoin), but that doesn't mean that it is worth anything at all. As I said, it is worthless, i.e. worth nothing, zero, zip, zilch, nada. So it will be the lowest possible price against any more or less decent coin (how such one shit coin could stand against another shit is a different matter, though, but it will be a waste of time anyway). That said, I don't closely follow altcoins nowadays, I have just seen a myriad of these shitcoins at Yobit exchange with empty Bid sides of the orderbook



That's pretty much sums it up

[pinkflower]

This is just a theory, so bear with me (constructive criticism is welcome)

And this theory asserts that Bitcoin dumps like what we've seen recently (i.e. today and right after the rejection of the Winklevoss ETF by the SEC) contribute to more even Bitcoin distribution over time and will help stabilize prices in the future (read make Bitcoin growth more consistent). What real world facts is this theory based on? We know that initially there were only a few users (so-called early adopters) who held the majority of coins, so they could easily move the price by dumping their stashes (at least, some part thereof). In the case of the lack of major news (either positive or negative), the price is pretty stable right now. So the only viable explanation for all of a sudden price crashes is most likely someone dumping huge amounts of coins (maybe, the bros themselves). This causes the price to plunge (even if momentarily). It is almost certain as well that the coins dumped are bought by a lot of independent traders, and therefore the wealth distribution is set to level out eventually. That's basically why dumps are important since they are caused via massive sell-offs by a relatively small number of large Bitcoin holders and get absorbed by the market

Youre assuming that the top in the rich list of Bitcoin are offloading their coins. I think whats really happening is the super rich wallets in BTC are not moving their coins. So whats really happening is a thinner and wider distribution of the few coins in circulation, remember BTC is divisible up to 8 decimal places. It might like the real world where the top 1% controls most of the wealth

That might well be the case

But if this is the case, that means that those Bitcoin holders which previously didn't cut it as whales (i.e. they couldn't move price much with their stashes before) now have become ones. What it basically comes down to is the capability of these new whales to affect prices, i.e. folks can move price with less coins (that's why they can be considered as new whales in the first place). If so, the current price crash is no more than a spike in volatility since market thinning should necessarily work in both directions. In other words, it can be moved up just as easily as it can be moved down. So we should just wait and see how the price would behave in the coming days

If that happens more then maybe BTC could be considered making and supporting an unhealthy market? If there are more and more whales born in the system that could move the price up and down, the more people should avoid this type of market.

[deisik]

This is just a theory, so bear with me (constructive criticism is welcome)

And this theory asserts that Bitcoin dumps like what we've seen recently (i.e. today and right after the rejection of the Winklevoss ETF by the SEC) contribute to more even Bitcoin distribution over time and will help stabilize prices in the future (read make Bitcoin growth more consistent). What real world facts is this theory based on? We know that initially there were only a few users (so-called early adopters) who held the majority of coins, so they could easily move the price by dumping their stashes (at least, some part thereof). In the case of the lack of major news (either positive or negative), the price is pretty stable right now. So the only viable explanation for all of a sudden price crashes is most likely someone dumping huge amounts of coins (maybe, the bros themselves). This causes the price to plunge (even if momentarily). It is almost certain as well that the coins dumped are bought by a lot of independent traders, and therefore the wealth distribution is set to level out eventually. That's basically why dumps are important since they are caused via massive sell-offs by a relatively small number of large Bitcoin holders and get absorbed by the market

Youre assuming that the top in the rich list of Bitcoin are offloading their coins. I think whats really happening is the super rich wallets in BTC are not moving their coins. So whats really happening is a thinner and wider distribution of the few coins in circulation, remember BTC is divisible up to 8 decimal places. It might like the real world where the top 1% controls most of the wealth

That might well be the case

But if this is the case, that means that those Bitcoin holders which previously didn't cut it as whales (i.e. they couldn't move price much with their stashes before) now have become ones. What it basically comes down to is the capability of these new whales to affect prices, i.e. folks can move price with less coins (that's why they can be considered as new whales in the first place). If so, the current price crash is no more than a spike in volatility since market thinning should necessarily work in both directions. In other words, it can be moved up just as easily as it can be moved down. So we should just wait and see how the price would behave in the coming days

If that happens more then maybe BTC could be considered making and supporting an unhealthy market? If there are more and more whales born in the system that could move the price up and down, the more people should avoid this type of market

That would certainly ruin a real economy based on Bitcoin as a means of payment

But since there is no such economy in the first place, there is nothing to ruin in the second. In respect to purely financial markets and Bitcoin more specifically, new whales are born as fast as they are destroyed (just like virtual particles in physics) since this process works in reverse as good as it works forward. Price volatility is good for traders and they are effectively working against it, thereby limiting price fluctuations. In other words, trees don't grow to the sky, birds can't fly to the stars and Bitcoin price cannot skyrocket to the moon. There is certainly a limit to the price growth since this growth will necessarily get offset by the spike in volatility over time, i.e. with Bitcoin the volatility is increasing faster than the price

[pinkflower]

How can more whales be created as fast as they are destroyed? If you could show proof that its happening and also make us see how its happening, that would be appreciated by a lot of us whos willing to learn. And how could that happen in a system where whales mostly buy and hold BTC?

How come you also said that theres no such economy in BTC. A lot of people will disagree with you.

[ImHash]

I don't know about you but seems to me like more people dump more people support the buy walls, have you noticed we've come from a $200M daily volume to a $600M 24Hrs and will soon reach $1B I know that could mean old hodlers might be dumping and are cashing out but it is a good sign let the big bag holders dump their stash it'll help to balance the scales of distribution, every day passes and more people from around the world are entering into bitcoin. remember that no matter what will going to happen HF or not our coins are safe we just need to keep supporting the Core, but why Core? because Satoshi himself could very well be steering the development of Core version you never know.

[deisik]

How can more whales be created as fast as they are destroyed? If you could show proof that its happening and also make us see how its happening, that would be appreciated by a lot of us whos willing to learn. And how could that happen in a system where whales mostly buy and hold BTC?

How come you also said that theres no such economy in BTC. A lot of people will disagree with you

In fact, it is not me who should first prove that whales are actually created in the first place

Since it was your point, not mine, after all. It was your assumption that dumps might happen due to many new folks becoming new whales because of the prices skyrocketing. I agree with such a possibility (since this is what I'm essentially saying myself, i.e. that higher prices contribute to even higher volatility) but as I suspect, the burden of proof is still lying on you. And after you provide evidence for that assumption, we can discuss this issue further (if you feel inclined to, of course)

[lionheart78]

Not a bad idea.
I would add to that that dumps are important because they show the coin is "living".
If we had no dump what so ever how would we make the difference between a succesful coin (no dump cause no one want to let their coin on the market) and a shitty one (no dump cause no one gives a shit about buying it). Dumps regulate the price on the short term and stabilize it on the long term!

Not all dumps are born equal

With a shitty coin, no more dump can only happen when it gets sold for just 1 satoshi in whatever amounts. That essentially means that there are no buyers for that coin altogether since you can't place a bid at a zero price. All shitty coins end up there, and if it doesn't make the final dump, it means that it is not complete shit yet. Obviously, Bitcoin dumps as of late have nothing to do with such final countdowns. I never forget to repeat that the market always fools the majority of traders, and you can be pretty sure that the current consensus on the direction that the price is going to take will be proved wrong once again

It seems you have not visited several exchanges today . After 1 satoshi there is always another market for shitcoin that can be dump to less than 1 satoshi and that would be in Litecoin market Or Dogecoin market or other altcoin market.  Though it is not in Bitcoin but still it can be dump lower than 1 satoshi.  Just look at Mooncoin for example.  It is lower than 1 satoshi in price but still trading at Litecoin Market

A shitcoin will just end up worth nothing

1 satoshi is the lowest price that shitcoin holders can ask to sell it for (in Bitcoin), but that doesn't mean that it is worth anything at all. As I said, it is worthless, i.e. worth nothing, zero, zip, zilch, nada. So it will be the lowest possible price against any more or less decent coin (how such one shit coin could stand against another shit is a different matter, though, but it will be a waste of time anyway). That said, I don't closely follow altcoins nowadays, I have just seen a myriad of these shitcoins at Yobit exchange with empty Bid sides of the orderbook



That's pretty much sums it up

Well you haven't said that your observation is limited to Bitcoin Market only .  But there is a market beyond Bitcoin among cryptocurreny and that is altcoin to altcoin market.  And getting your logic, ETH - Litecoin trade is worthless?  or ETH = Monero pairs is worthless or Dash = other altcoin pairs is worthless .  Seems a broken logic to me   .  As long as one of the pair have worth in Bitcoin  and or dollar, it will never be worthless.

[jaysabi]

This is just a theory, so bear with me (constructive criticism is welcome)

And this theory asserts that Bitcoin dumps like what we've seen recently (i.e. today and right after the rejection of the Winklevoss ETF by the SEC) contribute to more even Bitcoin distribution over time and will help stabilize prices in the future (read make Bitcoin growth more consistent). What real world facts is this theory based on? We know that initially there were only a few users (so-called early adopters) who held the majority of coins, so they could easily move the price by dumping their stashes (at least, some part thereof). In the case of the lack of major news (either positive or negative), the price is pretty stable right now. So the only viable explanation for all of a sudden price crashes is most likely someone dumping huge amounts of coins (maybe, the bros themselves). This causes the price to plunge (even if momentarily). It is almost certain as well that the coins dumped are bought by a lot of independent traders, and therefore the wealth distribution is set to level out eventually. That's basically why dumps are important since they are caused via massive sell-offs by a relatively small number of large Bitcoin holders and get absorbed by the market

I don't know if I buy the logic that dumps have to result in wealth equalization for the reasons stated. It takes as a given things which I don't think are a given. While one explanation for price crashes is large traders dumping a large amount of coins, I don't find that a given, though it might be the side that's the more likely explanation. But assuming it's true, I think the buyers during a crash are just as likely to be large traders as the sellers are, so this is the main reason I don't find that crashes mean a more equal coin distribution.

[jaysabi]

Additionally, I do believe the most recent price crash was a bit of market manipulation by large traders. As an anecdote, the rate to borrow margin on poloniex went from the typical .02 to .03 percent daily rate, to typically .25 to .45 percent, and I had one offer accepted as high as .77 percent. This suggests to me that traders were buying up as much margin as they could to trade the volatility, which I believe they created for that purpose. With how fast the price was dropping, it looked to be all shorting action with that margin. But this is also a theory.

[deisik]

Not a bad idea.
I would add to that that dumps are important because they show the coin is "living".
If we had no dump what so ever how would we make the difference between a succesful coin (no dump cause no one want to let their coin on the market) and a shitty one (no dump cause no one gives a shit about buying it). Dumps regulate the price on the short term and stabilize it on the long term!

Not all dumps are born equal

With a shitty coin, no more dump can only happen when it gets sold for just 1 satoshi in whatever amounts. That essentially means that there are no buyers for that coin altogether since you can't place a bid at a zero price. All shitty coins end up there, and if it doesn't make the final dump, it means that it is not complete shit yet. Obviously, Bitcoin dumps as of late have nothing to do with such final countdowns. I never forget to repeat that the market always fools the majority of traders, and you can be pretty sure that the current consensus on the direction that the price is going to take will be proved wrong once again

It seems you have not visited several exchanges today . After 1 satoshi there is always another market for shitcoin that can be dump to less than 1 satoshi and that would be in Litecoin market Or Dogecoin market or other altcoin market.  Though it is not in Bitcoin but still it can be dump lower than 1 satoshi.  Just look at Mooncoin for example.  It is lower than 1 satoshi in price but still trading at Litecoin Market

A shitcoin will just end up worth nothing

1 satoshi is the lowest price that shitcoin holders can ask to sell it for (in Bitcoin), but that doesn't mean that it is worth anything at all. As I said, it is worthless, i.e. worth nothing, zero, zip, zilch, nada. So it will be the lowest possible price against any more or less decent coin (how such one shit coin could stand against another shit is a different matter, though, but it will be a waste of time anyway). That said, I don't closely follow altcoins nowadays, I have just seen a myriad of these shitcoins at Yobit exchange with empty Bid sides of the orderbook

That's pretty much sums it up

Well you haven't said that your observation is limited to Bitcoin Market only .  But there is a market beyond Bitcoin among cryptocurreny and that is altcoin to altcoin market.  And getting your logic, ETH - Litecoin trade is worthless?  or ETH = Monero pairs is worthless or Dash = other altcoin pairs is worthless .  Seems a broken logic to me  .  As long as one of the pair have worth in Bitcoin  and or dollar, it will never be worthless

I don't quite understand what you refer to

Just in case, I didn't say that all altcoins are shitcoins, and that was not my point altogether. On the other hand, I specifically mentioned the case of one shit coin "trading" against another such coin, so you can't possibly claim that I was referring to just Bitcoin market exclusively. What I meant to say is that if two shit coins massively hit the floor (i.e. they have the lowest ask price set at 1 satoshi and there cannot possibly be buyers), there can still be a difference in their shitness, so to speak. They can still trade against each other in a somewhat meaningful way, i.e. one coin may be purportedly less shitty than the other. But in reality this trading is meaningless since you are still basically choosing between sorts of shit and just wasting your time

[Idrisu]

Dump is very important in assets trading as this create opportunity for the assets to strengthen itself. For USD trading in forex because of pump and dump there are many established support and resistance level and traders analysis USA economic progress or recession through that. Bitcoin straight will be determined by it recovery process during dump and also by dumb we would know if bitcoin economic is in recession or in progress.

[pinkflower]

How can more whales be created as fast as they are destroyed? If you could show proof that its happening and also make us see how its happening, that would be appreciated by a lot of us whos willing to learn. And how could that happen in a system where whales mostly buy and hold BTC?

How come you also said that theres no such economy in BTC. A lot of people will disagree with you

In fact, it is not me who should first prove that whales are actually created in the first place

Im confused. You said this in another post:

But since there is no such economy in the first place, there is nothing to ruin in the second. In respect to purely financial markets and Bitcoin more specifically, new whales are born as fast as they are destroyed (just like virtual particles in physics) since this process works in reverse as good as it works forward. Price volatility is good for traders and they are effectively working against it, thereby limiting price fluctuations. In other words, trees don't grow to the sky, birds can't fly to the stars and Bitcoin price cannot skyrocket to the moon. There is certainly a limit to the price growth since this growth will necessarily get offset by the spike in volatility over time, i.e. with Bitcoin the volatility is increasing faster than the price

[/quote]

So I wanted for you to show us an example of how that happens in the market because it is an interesting concept.

Since it was your point, not mine, after all. It was your assumption that dumps might happen due to many new folks becoming new whales because of the prices skyrocketing. I agree with such a possibility (since this is what I'm essentially saying myself, i.e. that higher prices contribute to even higher volatility) but as I suspect, the burden of proof is still lying on you. And after you provide evidence for that assumption, we can discuss this issue further (if you feel inclined to, of course)

I dont think I said this and if I said something you might have misunderstood me or maybe you may even have made a mistake in thinking that was me. But please quote the post you are talking about then we can discuss it more. There must be a little misunderstanding. Its hard when youre not talking to someone face to face.

[BrewMaster]

-snip-

Well you haven't said that your observation is limited to Bitcoin Market only .  But there is a market beyond Bitcoin among cryptocurreny and that is altcoin to altcoin market.  And getting your logic, ETH - Litecoin trade is worthless?  or ETH = Monero pairs is worthless or Dash = other altcoin pairs is worthless .  Seems a broken logic to me  .  As long as one of the pair have worth in Bitcoin  and or dollar, it will never be worthless.

being traded doesn't mean they are valuable (or worth something) it is a temporary situation on a dying market.
these coins are pump and dumps you are naming 2 of the bigger ones which makes no difference. but he is talking in general and about shitcoins. and i would argue that the screenshot he posted is misleading because those coins aren't even worth 1 satoshi because NOBODY BUYS THEM.
in fact they are listed on other exchanges and being traded with other altcoins. for example one of them is worth 0.00001 Doge you can imagine what the value in bitcoin is!
and all those "bigger" coins are big only because they have big whales controlling them but under the hood, there is no difference between them and those shitcoins that are small.

[lionheart78]

Well you haven't said that your observation is limited to Bitcoin Market only .  But there is a market beyond Bitcoin among cryptocurreny and that is altcoin to altcoin market.  And getting your logic, ETH - Litecoin trade is worthless?  or ETH = Monero pairs is worthless or Dash = other altcoin pairs is worthless .  Seems a broken logic to me   .  As long as one of the pair have worth in Bitcoin  and or dollar, it will never be worthless

I don't quite understand what you refer to

Just in case, I didn't say that all altcoins are shitcoins, and that was not my point altogether. On the other hand, I specifically mentioned the case of one shit coin "trading" against another such coin, so you can't possibly claim that I was referring to just Bitcoin market exclusively. What I meant to say is that if two shit coins massively hit the floor (i.e. they have the lowest ask price set at 1 satoshi and there cannot possibly be buyers), there can still be a difference in their shitness, so to speak. They can still trade against each other in a somewhat meaningful way, i.e. one coin may be purportedly less shitty than the other. But in reality this trading is meaningless since you are still basically choosing between sorts of shit and just wasting your time

That's the problem I think (you, not understanding the thing I am pointing out) and maybe we have to leave it that way, I do get what you mean though.  I am just saying that Cryptocurrency does not exist in bitcoin - altcoin pair in trading alone (that's the main point) whether it is useless or not is another side of story, the only question is, does they exist, of course yes.  So that goes down to the point that trading altcoin is not limited and does not stop when its value falls below one satoshi, as long as there is demand for it.

being traded doesn't mean they are valuable (or worth something) it is a temporary situation on a dying market.
these coins are pump and dumps you are naming 2 of the bigger ones which makes no difference. but he is talking in general and about shitcoins. and i would argue that the screenshot he posted is misleading because those coins aren't even worth 1 satoshi because NOBODY BUYS THEM.
in fact they are listed on other exchanges and being traded with other altcoins. for example one of them is worth 0.00001 Doge you can imagine what the value in bitcoin is!
and all those "bigger" coins are big only because they have big whales controlling them but under the hood, there is no difference between them and those shitcoins that are small.

I do agree with you but being valuable or not is another side of story and maybe need another thread for discussion since how much a thing worth depends on the personal evaluation of each individual,  I am just pointing out that there is trading below 1 satoshi value.

[deisik]

Well you haven't said that your observation is limited to Bitcoin Market only .  But there is a market beyond Bitcoin among cryptocurreny and that is altcoin to altcoin market.  And getting your logic, ETH - Litecoin trade is worthless?  or ETH = Monero pairs is worthless or Dash = other altcoin pairs is worthless .  Seems a broken logic to me  .  As long as one of the pair have worth in Bitcoin  and or dollar, it will never be worthless

I don't quite understand what you refer to

Just in case, I didn't say that all altcoins are shitcoins, and that was not my point altogether. On the other hand, I specifically mentioned the case of one shit coin "trading" against another such coin, so you can't possibly claim that I was referring to just Bitcoin market exclusively. What I meant to say is that if two shit coins massively hit the floor (i.e. they have the lowest ask price set at 1 satoshi and there cannot possibly be buyers), there can still be a difference in their shitness, so to speak. They can still trade against each other in a somewhat meaningful way, i.e. one coin may be purportedly less shitty than the other. But in reality this trading is meaningless since you are still basically choosing between sorts of shit and just wasting your time

That's the problem I think (you, not understanding the thing I am pointing out) and maybe we have to leave it that way, I do get what you mean though.  I am just saying that Cryptocurrency does not exist in bitcoin - altcoin pair in trading alone (that's the main point) whether it is useless or not is another side of story, the only question is, does they exist, of course yes.  So that goes down to the point that trading altcoin is not limited and does not stop when its value falls below one satoshi, as long as there is demand for it

Why are you trying to ascribe to me what I didn't say?

I posted a snapshot and if you follow from there, the only reliable conclusion that you can arrive at is that this coin has no buyers at all which pretty quickly comes down to concluding that is not worth anything in general. It can in fact be still traded against other altcoins and allegedly have some value but given only what you see at this snapshot, there is no reason to think that it has any value at all. Basically, you are making an irrelevant point, the case of which I specifically mentioned in my first post regarding this issue (and it kinda seems that exactly my mentioning this nuance made you pop up)

[lionheart78]

Well you haven't said that your observation is limited to Bitcoin Market only .  But there is a market beyond Bitcoin among cryptocurreny and that is altcoin to altcoin market.  And getting your logic, ETH - Litecoin trade is worthless?  or ETH = Monero pairs is worthless or Dash = other altcoin pairs is worthless .  Seems a broken logic to me  .  As long as one of the pair have worth in Bitcoin  and or dollar, it will never be worthless

I don't quite understand what you refer to

Just in case, I didn't say that all altcoins are shitcoins, and that was not my point altogether. On the other hand, I specifically mentioned the case of one shit coin "trading" against another such coin, so you can't possibly claim that I was referring to just Bitcoin market exclusively. What I meant to say is that if two shit coins massively hit the floor (i.e. they have the lowest ask price set at 1 satoshi and there cannot possibly be buyers), there can still be a difference in their shitness, so to speak. They can still trade against each other in a somewhat meaningful way, i.e. one coin may be purportedly less shitty than the other. But in reality this trading is meaningless since you are still basically choosing between sorts of shit and just wasting your time

That's the problem I think (you, not understanding the thing I am pointing out) and maybe we have to leave it that way, I do get what you mean though.  I am just saying that Cryptocurrency does not exist in bitcoin - altcoin pair in trading alone (that's the main point) whether it is useless or not is another side of story, the only question is, does they exist, of course yes.  So that goes down to the point that trading altcoin is not limited and does not stop when its value falls below one satoshi, as long as there is demand for it

Why are you trying to ascribe to me what I didn't say?

I posted a snapshot and if you follow from there, the only reliable conclusion that you can arrive at is that this coin has no buyers at all which pretty quickly comes down to concluding that is not worth anything in general. It can in fact be still traded against other altcoins and allegedly have some value but given only what you see at this snapshot, there is no reason to think that it has any value at all. Basically, you are making an irrelevant point, the case of which I specifically mentioned in my first post regarding this issue

Just accept the fact that there is trading below 1 satoshi value and you'll get it and I bet you do.  I would think there is some misunderstanding between us regarding the issue since I guess you are right, if we hold on the sample you use.  but there goes  Brewmaster replies for it. 

with regards to the snapshot, I have to agree with you, considering that it is the only trading pair for that altcoin.  Since trading of that coin is limited to 1 satoshi only.

and about the relevance, there is since a coin can be dump into oblivion way below than 1 satoshi, that is why I said there is another trading pair than Bitcoin - altcoin since you stated

Not all dumps are born equal

With a shitty coin, no more dump can only happen when it gets sold for just 1 satoshi in whatever amounts.