Release the ban hammers

[markj113]

This forum is slowly slipping deeper and deeper into the devils scam pit.

As the BTC price creeps onwards and upwards the magnetic pull to the average dim witted scammer and Nigerian prince becomes irresistible.

The currency exchange thread has become a newbie scammer V scammer battleground.

I think the time has come where the spirit of Satoshi needs to release the BAN HAMMERS to a bunch of senior/trusted members to help cleanse the forum of this ever growing scourge.

Who’s with me

[springgers]

I am with you!

You defused one just now and saved some one from losing their funds with their selected payment they were going to use to a known scammer.
I would suggest some one with DT trust to join your cause.
So the red trust sticks and not hidden if those who don't have their trust settings set correctly will miss it all together.

[0xfff]

Banning people will not fix the problem. They will come back with new accounts. Fix the root of the issue instead. 

[botany]

With respect to scammers, I think the people on DT are already pretty active in painting the town red.
Banning scammers won't do the forum any good, apart from giving people a false sense of security. Makes sense to retain forum policy on not moderating scams.

[cosmicblue]

Knowing there is a team of DT members who are patrolling the forums then that should deter them from trying to scam.
Sort of like a team of Avengers for the forum consisting of DT1-2 members who are ready to deal out red as needed.
Now that would make anyone scared to want to mess with anyone on the forums with trying to do a scam.

[franckuestein]

The line between considering a project scam or non-scam is very thin. Despite the fact that there are a lot of ponzi schemes out there, new ones will continue to appear.
In order to prevent moderation abuse, possible (or real) scams and trust ratings are not moderated. Point 19 of the Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ

No one likes scams but IMHO it's the responsibility of users to differentiate between serious projects and scams. Don't you think so?

[rizzlarolla]

No one likes scams but IMHO it's the responsibility of users to differentiate between serious projects and scams. Don't you think so?

Some people like scam's. Scammer's like scams.

It would be somewhat easier for users to differentiate if mass farmed accounts were not allowed the freedom of the forum to gain credibility.
Used by scammers to coerce, shill, persuade, spam, trust farm and scam, before possibly, finally being banned.

[franckuestein]

It would be somewhat easier for users to differentiate if mass farmed accounts were not allowed the freedom of the forum to gain credibility.

AFAIK some users, moderation team and DT are doing their best to report this scam users and projects in the Scam Accusations section of the forum. As you know is very difficult to accuse or ban anyone and act as a judge before being sure of the infringement that has taken place.

I agree with you and some previous comments that's important to work on solutions against this type of users but It's always a good idea to remember that most of farming accounts are recently created accounts with Newbie rank.
There are a lot of warning messages throughout the forum (including direct messages) telling you to be careful when making deals or acquiring services from newbie accounts. This is where the user himself must take responsibility and always use escrow to prevent these incidents.

[rizzlarolla]

It would be somewhat easier for users to differentiate if mass farmed accounts were not allowed the freedom of the forum to gain credibility.

AFAIK all the users, moderation team and DT are doing their best to report this scam users and projects in the Scam Accusations section of the forum. As you know is very difficult to accuse or ban anyone and act as a judge before being sure of the infringement that has taken place.

I agree with you and some previous comments that's important to work on solutions against this type of users but It's always a good idea to remember that most of farming accounts are recently created accounts with Newbie rank.
There are a lot of warning messages throughout the forum (including direct messages) telling you to be careful when making deals or acquiring services from newbie accounts. This is where the user himself must take responsibility and always use escrow to prevent these incidents.

The majority of the (nearly 1000?) farmed accounts i have listed are over a year old now, not newbie.
Because admin will not act against farmed accounts, they are allowed to build reputation and rank.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1670807.0

Already identified by me with about 100% accuracy, afaik, while "all the (other) users, moderation team and DT are doing their best to report this scam users" 1 by 1 as they then go on to achieve their crimes.
It is not difficult to accuse an account of being mass farmed when you have 100% accuracy, or there about, as i have. You and admin are in denial.

When admin sanction "proven" farmed accounts to continue gaining rank and reputation, it is harder for users to make good judgement.

[Joel_Jantsen]

1.I'm with you on that decision.

2.It is not easy because some of these newbie accounts are genuine,don't want them to suffer.

3.People should educate themselves on internet scams,dealing without an escrow is not advised anyway.

4.The least mods can do is stop allowing newbie accounts to make self moderated threads.

[springgers]

1.I'm with you on that decision.

2.It is not easy because some of these newbie accounts are genuine,don't want them to suffer.

3.People should educate themselves on internet scams,dealing without an escrow is not advised anyway.

4.The least mods can do is stop allowing newbie accounts to make self moderated threads.

I am in strong favor of number 4 on the list.
Stop the creation of self moderated threads. Because the devil are in the details and those devils are able to delete the evidence if they are allowed to create those threads in that way.

[jaceefrost]

1.I'm with you on that decision.

2.It is not easy because some of these newbie accounts are genuine,don't want them to suffer.

3.People should educate themselves on internet scams,dealing without an escrow is not advised anyway.

4.The least mods can do is stop allowing newbie accounts to make self moderated threads.

I am in strong favor of number 4 on the list.
Stop the creation of self moderated threads. Because the devil are in the details and those devils are able to delete the evidence if they are allowed to create those threads in that way.

Agreed. Somehow the forum should have limitations for newbie account or even better don't allow members and below to create self moderated threads. It's already a problem in the goods sectio I didn't know people are now doing it in the currency exchange section. Why do people keep falling for it anyway, they need to learn the pattern so they can atleast avoid it.

[pixelpowered]

This forum is slowly slipping deeper and deeper into the devils scam pit.
As the BTC price creeps onwards and upwards the magnetic pull to the average dim witted scammer and Nigerian prince becomes irresistible.
The currency exchange thread has become a newbie scammer V scammer battleground.
I think the time has come where the spirit of Satoshi needs to release the BAN HAMMERS to a bunch of senior/trusted members to help cleanse the forum of this ever growing scourge.
Who’s with me

Oh thank Lord Satoshi, hallow be thy blockchain, another feels my own concerns about all the chains of data that stir foul intent!

With respect to scammers, I think the people on DT are already pretty active in painting the town red.
Banning scammers won't do the forum any good, apart from giving people a false sense of security. Makes sense to retain forum policy on not moderating scams.

We need better colors or emoticons to describe the new sickness gripping the chains of trust in my opinion.

It would be somewhat easier for users to differentiate if mass farmed accounts were not allowed the freedom of the forum to gain credibility.

AFAIK all the users, moderation team and DT are doing their best to report this scam users and projects in the Scam Accusations section of the forum. As you know is very difficult to accuse or ban anyone and act as a judge before being sure of the infringement that has taken place.

I agree with you and some previous comments that's important to work on solutions against this type of users but It's always a good idea to remember that most of farming accounts are recently created accounts with Newbie rank.
There are a lot of warning messages throughout the forum (including direct messages) telling you to be careful when making deals or acquiring services from newbie accounts. This is where the user himself must take responsibility and always use escrow to prevent these incidents.

The majority of the (nearly 1000?) farmed accounts i have listed are over a year old now, not newbie.
Because admin will not act against farmed accounts, they are allowed to build reputation and rank.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1670807.0

Already identified by me with about 100% accuracy, afaik, while "all the (other) users, moderation team and DT are doing their best to report this scam users" 1 by 1 as they then go on to achieve their crimes.
It is not difficult to accuse an account of being mass farmed when you have 100% accuracy, or there about, as i have. You and admin are in denial.

When admin sanction "proven" farmed accounts to continue gaining rank and reputation, it is harder for users to make good judgement.

Yep. The orchestration of it all is sometimes impressive.
It is dependent on how much initially said scammer(s) funds or has knowledge/leverage inside this forum.

I feel this is only the beginning as more use the blockchain technologies as a buzzword selling point. Insinuating that using these technologies = equally validating trust in the project, regardless what details or attributes show up on the accounts.
There's many different type of scammers now that use all type of methods. Some automated and some brought by social engineering. Too many examples to list.

I feel we can come to a consensus like these technologies have already led us to use.
We all have different abilities in recognizing patterns that do not merit trust as well for accounts to be on BCT.
I do not feel or think that allowing accounts/users to use the BCT forum and its collective intelligence or resources with intent to scam in it.

Let us raise this hefty hammer discussion higher with consensus as these technologies have led us to believe in.
We can edit this hammering process as well. We should be setting an example about how to use these technologies properly in conjunction with the real world.

If one or more DT0(+) accounts start to report a failure in service or trade with another account. The hammer can be looked at and considered.
If one or more DT1 accounts start to post, linking and show a pattern of wrongful intent. The hammer should be caressed and polished. Possibly lent to a collective of DT1 accounts to swing around on blatant scammers.
If one or more DT2 accounts start to post. Linking and showing the forum that the accounts from not only this forum but other forums or publicly available resources scammers or bad accounts. The should be used. Possibly a select few DT2 accounts should have the ability to outright temp-ban?

A log can and should be produced to show when any ban was performed and to why.
A permanent band could also be done to accounts depending on the attempts to repeat said transgressions on the forum.

Participation in using the ban hammer or said being in the banning process should be removed automatically if accounts are found to be sold to another.
These privileges should also be removable by the BCT forum if such a privileged hammer is being wielded by the corrupted or blind to logically linked facts.

The problem isn't the hammer or finding nails anymore.
The problem is deciding to use the hammer and feeling or thinking your justified in using it after you log out.
The burden can be mitigated and managed by all of us and those with the strength of wisdom.

[shorena]

-snip-
If one or more DT0(+) accounts start to report a failure in service or trade with another account. The hammer can be looked at and considered.
If one or more DT1 accounts start to post, linking and show a pattern of wrongful intent. The hammer should be caressed and polished. Possibly lent to a collective of DT1 accounts to swing around on blatant scammers.
If one or more DT2 accounts start to post. Linking and showing the forum that the accounts from not only this forum but other forums or publicly available resources scammers or bad accounts. The should be used. Possibly a select few DT2 accounts should have the ability to outright temp-ban?

So you want to make all DT2 essentially admins?

A log can and should be produced to show when any ban was performed and to why.
A permanent band could also be done to accounts depending on the attempts to repeat said transgressions on the forum.

Participation in using the ban hammer or said being in the banning process should be removed automatically if accounts are found to be sold to another.
These privileges should also be removable by the BCT forum if such a privileged hammer is being wielded by the corrupted or blind to logically linked facts.

Who is going to decide that?

The problem isn't the hammer or finding nails anymore.
The problem is deciding to use the hammer and feeling or thinking your justified in using it after you log out.
The burden can be mitigated and managed by all of us and those with the strength of wisdom.

Do you think this will prevent all scams? Do you think this method will be without fail, no innocent will ever be banned? Do think this method will help improve or worsen the overal user awareness about possible scammers?

[pixelpowered]

-snip-
If one or more DT0(+) accounts start to report a failure in service or trade with another account. The hammer can be looked at and considered.
If one or more DT1 accounts start to post, linking and show a pattern of wrongful intent. The hammer should be caressed and polished. Possibly lent to a collective of DT1 accounts to swing around on blatant scammers.
If one or more DT2 accounts start to post. Linking and showing the forum that the accounts from not only this forum but other forums or publicly available resources scammers or bad accounts. The should be used. Possibly a select few DT2 accounts should have the ability to outright temp-ban?

So you want to make all DT2 essentially admins?

A log can and should be produced to show when any ban was performed and to why.
A permanent band could also be done to accounts depending on the attempts to repeat said transgressions on the forum.

Participation in using the ban hammer or said being in the banning process should be removed automatically if accounts are found to be sold to another.
These privileges should also be removable by the BCT forum if such a privileged hammer is being wielded by the corrupted or blind to logically linked facts.

Who is going to decide that?

The problem isn't the hammer or finding nails anymore.
The problem is deciding to use the hammer and feeling or thinking your justified in using it after you log out.
The burden can be mitigated and managed by all of us and those with the strength of wisdom.

Do you think this will prevent all scams? Do you think this method will be without fail, no innocent will ever be banned? Do think this method will help improve or worsen the overal user awareness about possible scammers?

So you want to make all DT2 essentially admins?
Just throwing out ideas to elevate the idea. No, I don't want to have DT2 accounts having an outright ban ability, even if I know them or of them.

Who is going to decide that?
Hopefully all of us or accounts that show they can handle the idea.
Another idea that came to mind to make it more fair. We can do a lotto for people interesting in this idea of a group holding said hammer ability.

Do you think this will prevent all scams? Do you think this method will be without fail, no innocent will ever be banned? Do think this method will help improve or worsen the overal user awareness about possible scammers?

No, scams are endless like are ability to innovate. I suggested a log be produced about what account(s) is banned so it could be reviewed by another group that could be decided. A checks and balance to this would be prudent. I'm sure others could type up a better consensus idea than I'm trying to insinuate.

I think the current way to deal with scams/scammers by painting them red with neg trust is no longer working for some accounts. While making other users aware of their intent, it also flags others that they can also help assist them in scamming on the forum.

I have a simple example from what scammers think of people confronting and making other users aware of them and their actions.

ROFL, free hosting made with web-site builder tool.. xaxaxa
Legit for sure 

Ya invest4profit snack shack is pretty funny.

You still posting your garbage around the forum is even more entertaining.
Like the Bitcoin Network.
Do you think commenting on things like this will help your reputation?

Glad to Entertain you ^^
And no, I do not think commenting will increase the reputation haha - I like penetration-testing, analyzing, and developing webs.
I completely do not care about the reputation, however you seem to be but-hurt ^^

Good.
Just wanted to make sure your a lively shit-scripter out to scam people.
Carry on.

Hahaha look,

❶ You are right, I am Developing/Scripting Projects, however rarely I do run them (I admit I sometimes do), but I mostly sell them.
❷ I am out to scam people? EVERY PROJECT HERE IS A SCAM, sooner or later, AND people know that VERY WELL, but looks like you don't, or got but-hurt.

I actually don't understand people complaining like this here,
Like it or nah, that's how it is in this forum section.
I will not reply you further.

This account has been noticed for years, noted by others, yet they don't mind to keep coming back as no repercussions to their actions has taken place.
They also state that certain sections of the BCT forum are okay to conduct said scams.
Making scams a standard to be performed in sections of the forum by repeat offenders is not healthy to me.

[shorena]

-snip-
If one or more DT0(+) accounts start to report a failure in service or trade with another account. The hammer can be looked at and considered.
If one or more DT1 accounts start to post, linking and show a pattern of wrongful intent. The hammer should be caressed and polished. Possibly lent to a collective of DT1 accounts to swing around on blatant scammers.
If one or more DT2 accounts start to post. Linking and showing the forum that the accounts from not only this forum but other forums or publicly available resources scammers or bad accounts. The should be used. Possibly a select few DT2 accounts should have the ability to outright temp-ban?

So you want to make all DT2 essentially admins?

A log can and should be produced to show when any ban was performed and to why.
A permanent band could also be done to accounts depending on the attempts to repeat said transgressions on the forum.

Participation in using the ban hammer or said being in the banning process should be removed automatically if accounts are found to be sold to another.
These privileges should also be removable by the BCT forum if such a privileged hammer is being wielded by the corrupted or blind to logically linked facts.

Who is going to decide that?

The problem isn't the hammer or finding nails anymore.
The problem is deciding to use the hammer and feeling or thinking your justified in using it after you log out.
The burden can be mitigated and managed by all of us and those with the strength of wisdom.

Do you think this will prevent all scams? Do you think this method will be without fail, no innocent will ever be banned? Do think this method will help improve or worsen the overal user awareness about possible scammers?

So you want to make all DT2 essentially admins?
Just throwing out ideas to elevate the idea. No, I don't want to have DT2 accounts having an outright ban ability, even if I know them or of them.

Just poking holes in your ideas. Global moderators can not issue temp bans to the best of my knowledge, by asking for temp ban rights for DT members you essentially ask them to have the highest rank of moderation, administrator.

Who is going to decide that?
Hopefully all of us or accounts that show they can handle the idea.
Another idea that came to mind to make it more fair. We can do a lotto for people interesting in this idea of a group holding said hammer ability.

Sure, nothing bad is going to happen if you make a lottery in order to handle scammers with a large number of accounts.

What do you mean with all of us? A vote?

Do you think this will prevent all scams? Do you think this method will be without fail, no innocent will ever be banned? Do think this method will help improve or worsen the overal user awareness about possible scammers?

No, scams are endless like are ability to innovate. I suggested a log be produced about what account(s) is banned so it could be reviewed by another group that could be decided. A checks and balance to this would be prudent. I'm sure others could type up a better consensus idea than I'm trying to insinuate.

So see a need for someone to check up on this new power group you want to establish, good. Maybe think a bit further.

I think the current way to deal with scams/scammers by painting them red with neg trust is no longer working for some accounts. While making other users aware of their intent, it also flags others that they can also help assist them in scamming on the forum.

I have a simple example from what scammers think of people confronting and making other users aware of them and their actions.

ROFL, free hosting made with web-site builder tool.. xaxaxa
Legit for sure 

Ya invest4profit snack shack is pretty funny.

You still posting your garbage around the forum is even more entertaining.
Like the Bitcoin Network.
Do you think commenting on things like this will help your reputation?

Glad to Entertain you ^^
And no, I do not think commenting will increase the reputation haha - I like penetration-testing, analyzing, and developing webs.
I completely do not care about the reputation, however you seem to be but-hurt ^^

Good.
Just wanted to make sure your a lively shit-scripter out to scam people.
Carry on.

Hahaha look,

❶ You are right, I am Developing/Scripting Projects, however rarely I do run them (I admit I sometimes do), but I mostly sell them.
❷ I am out to scam people? EVERY PROJECT HERE IS A SCAM, sooner or later, AND people know that VERY WELL, but looks like you don't, or got but-hurt.

I actually don't understand people complaining like this here,
Like it or nah, that's how it is in this forum section.
I will not reply you further.

This account has been noticed for years, noted by others, yet they don't mind to keep coming back as no repercussions to their actions has taken place.
They also state that certain sections of the BCT forum are okay to conduct said scams.
Making scams a standard to be performed in sections of the forum by repeat offenders is not healthy to me.

Yes, people keep giving money to ponzi scammers. A ban wouldnt fix that either. Its up for them to understand that a ponzi is a scam that only works as long as idiots keep feeding it.

[springgers]

So is anything going to be done in 'bringing the band together?'
As Phil Coulson would say about the need of heroes in this world.
But being a forum I don't really know the view of doing this by the other forum members and their staff.

[Cast12]

I'd be fine with that, if only we actually can.

[pixelpowered]

-snip-
If one or more DT0(+) accounts start to report a failure in service or trade with another account. The hammer can be looked at and considered.
If one or more DT1 accounts start to post, linking and show a pattern of wrongful intent. The hammer should be caressed and polished. Possibly lent to a collective of DT1 accounts to swing around on blatant scammers.
If one or more DT2 accounts start to post. Linking and showing the forum that the accounts from not only this forum but other forums or publicly available resources scammers or bad accounts. The should be used. Possibly a select few DT2 accounts should have the ability to outright temp-ban?

So you want to make all DT2 essentially admins?

A log can and should be produced to show when any ban was performed and to why.
A permanent band could also be done to accounts depending on the attempts to repeat said transgressions on the forum.

Participation in using the ban hammer or said being in the banning process should be removed automatically if accounts are found to be sold to another.
These privileges should also be removable by the BCT forum if such a privileged hammer is being wielded by the corrupted or blind to logically linked facts.

Who is going to decide that?

The problem isn't the hammer or finding nails anymore.
The problem is deciding to use the hammer and feeling or thinking your justified in using it after you log out.
The burden can be mitigated and managed by all of us and those with the strength of wisdom.

Do you think this will prevent all scams? Do you think this method will be without fail, no innocent will ever be banned? Do think this method will help improve or worsen the overal user awareness about possible scammers?

So you want to make all DT2 essentially admins?
Just throwing out ideas to elevate the idea. No, I don't want to have DT2 accounts having an outright ban ability, even if I know them or of them.

Just poking holes in your ideas. Global moderators can not issue temp bans to the best of my knowledge, by asking for temp ban rights for DT members you essentially ask them to have the highest rank of moderation, administrator.

Who is going to decide that?
Hopefully all of us or accounts that show they can handle the idea.
Another idea that came to mind to make it more fair. We can do a lotto for people interesting in this idea of a group holding said hammer ability.

Sure, nothing bad is going to happen if you make a lottery in order to handle scammers with a large number of accounts.

What do you mean with all of us? A vote?

Do you think this will prevent all scams? Do you think this method will be without fail, no innocent will ever be banned? Do think this method will help improve or worsen the overal user awareness about possible scammers?

No, scams are endless like are ability to innovate. I suggested a log be produced about what account(s) is banned so it could be reviewed by another group that could be decided. A checks and balance to this would be prudent. I'm sure others could type up a better consensus idea than I'm trying to insinuate.

So see a need for someone to check up on this new power group you want to establish, good. Maybe think a bit further.

I think the current way to deal with scams/scammers by painting them red with neg trust is no longer working for some accounts. While making other users aware of their intent, it also flags others that they can also help assist them in scamming on the forum.

I have a simple example from what scammers think of people confronting and making other users aware of them and their actions.

ROFL, free hosting made with web-site builder tool.. xaxaxa
Legit for sure 

Ya invest4profit snack shack is pretty funny.

You still posting your garbage around the forum is even more entertaining.
Like the Bitcoin Network.
Do you think commenting on things like this will help your reputation?

Glad to Entertain you ^^
And no, I do not think commenting will increase the reputation haha - I like penetration-testing, analyzing, and developing webs.
I completely do not care about the reputation, however you seem to be but-hurt ^^

Good.
Just wanted to make sure your a lively shit-scripter out to scam people.
Carry on.

Hahaha look,

❶ You are right, I am Developing/Scripting Projects, however rarely I do run them (I admit I sometimes do), but I mostly sell them.
❷ I am out to scam people? EVERY PROJECT HERE IS A SCAM, sooner or later, AND people know that VERY WELL, but looks like you don't, or got but-hurt.

I actually don't understand people complaining like this here,
Like it or nah, that's how it is in this forum section.
I will not reply you further.

This account has been noticed for years, noted by others, yet they don't mind to keep coming back as no repercussions to their actions has taken place.
They also state that certain sections of the BCT forum are okay to conduct said scams.
Making scams a standard to be performed in sections of the forum by repeat offenders is not healthy to me.

Yes, people keep giving money to ponzi scammers. A ban wouldnt fix that either. Its up for them to understand that a ponzi is a scam that only works as long as idiots keep feeding it.

Just poking holes in your ideas. Global moderators can not issue temp bans to the best of my knowledge, by asking for temp ban rights for DT members you essentially ask them to have the highest rank of moderation, administrator.
No worries at all. I thought we were just spittin' ideas anyways about this all. I like to define the ranges of what we're all after first. Group banning vs single trusted banning.
Ya, in current format. Not a good choice. Something for the future perhaps when the userbase has a better curation involvement and trust.

Sure, nothing bad is going to happen if you make a lottery in order to handle scammers with a large number of accounts.
What do you mean with all of us? A vote?
The vote would be carried out by a trusted few. Mind you, this is for a version of banning from a consensus and not best to use now.

I'll go back to doing what I was doing and seeing how it works in the current format. I get the feeling the intent of the thread now was more to keep trying the current way to mark/remove the problems. Not discuss alternative ways to enforce it all.

May the trades and trust be with you all 

[springgers]

So is anything going to be done in 'bringing the band together?'
As Phil Coulson would say about the need of heroes in this world.
But being a forum I don't really know the view of doing this by the other forum members and their staff.

So this is not going to happen?
The legendary and 'hero' members who would be able to do this would be viewed as gods here from all!