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Author Topic: Mars One: Bitcoins in space?  (Read 1961 times)
Dargumin
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April 22, 2013, 03:21:44 PM
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The Mars One project is looking to build a community on Mars in 2023.  Presumably the people of Mars would not be governed by a country on Earth and as the community thrives they will need their own currency as a medium of exchange.  Since Bitcoin is also not backed by governments of any country then surely this is the obvious choice of currency for the people of Mars.  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22146456

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April 22, 2013, 03:49:11 PM
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The people on Mars started using bitcoin long time ago. The are the early adopters.

                                   
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Ogig
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April 22, 2013, 03:57:35 PM
 #3

The Mars One project is looking to build a community on Mars in 2023.  Presumably the people of Mars would not be governed by a country on Earth and as the community thrives they will need their own currency as a medium of exchange.  Since Bitcoin is also not backed by governments of any country then surely this is the obvious choice of currency for the people of Mars.  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22146456

Mar One project is so crazy that i love it. I doubt it will turn into something other than a huge database of crazy geeks. Still, i love it.

Let's play:

I imagine an early mars community to be strongly governed by the mission organizers in a corporativist/dictatorship style. In any case, when i learned about bitcoin i thought, "ey, these are the famous credits i've seen used on every scifi book". A non physical currency should prevail in out of Earth colonies, where storage space and material resources will be scarce while not energy.

Depending on orbit, 4-20 minutes/light is the distance between Earth and Mars, that's pretty laggy. We shall need to create something like the "Solar System Monetary Network" that operates in huge timelapses. Pluto to Earth is 320 minutes/light, so we might need something that can handle that for the "Last Frontier Space Station" orbiting Pluto. Then the SSMN could be used to link the different currencies, so say, a Marscoin could be send to the Plutocoin system while the Marscoin network remains fast and local.

 Wink

owenprescott
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April 22, 2013, 04:07:03 PM
 #4

The Mars One project is looking to build a community on Mars in 2023.  Presumably the people of Mars would not be governed by a country on Earth and as the community thrives they will need their own currency as a medium of exchange.  Since Bitcoin is also not backed by governments of any country then surely this is the obvious choice of currency for the people of Mars.  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22146456

Mar One project is so crazy that i love it. I doubt it will turn into something other than a huge database of crazy geeks. Still, i love it.

Let's play:

I imagine an early mars community to be strongly governed by the mission organizers in a corporativist/dictatorship style. In any case, when i learned about bitcoin i thought, "ey, these are the famous credits i've seen used on every scifi book". A non physical currency should prevail in out of Earth colonies, where storage space and material resources will be scarce while not energy.

Depending on orbit, 4-20 minutes/light is the distance between Earth and Mars, that's pretty laggy. We shall need to create something like the "Solar System Monetary Network" that operates in huge timelapses. Pluto to Earth is 320 minutes/light, so we might need something that can handle that for the "Last Frontier Space Station" orbiting Pluto. Then the SSMN could be used to link the different currencies, so say, a Marscoin could be send to the Plutocoin system while the Marscoin network remains fast and local.

 Wink

Civil war on Mars, you saw it here first lol.
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April 22, 2013, 06:41:59 PM
 #5

My first post on the noob forum jokingly talked about the problem of the blockchain on Mars and beyond if bitcoin is still around 200 years from now. As soon as the blockchain is divided into bitcoin-Mars, bitcoin-Europa, etc, things is going to be a mess...

Some says quantum entanglement would be a solution for every future form of data communications from any two points in the universe without the limitation of the speed of light. Not only that but when Alice Data is locked with Bob Data through this weird, bizarre concept, Carol from NSA CANNOT intercept the Data.

Of course this is still science fiction, but the concept already was proved and worked in the lab as far as Data teleportation.

http://youtu.be/3nq6y9P1_yM
rebuilder
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April 22, 2013, 07:08:04 PM
 #6

At the risk of going off topic, I recommend Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy, as it has quite original ideas about many things related to the colonization of space, including economics and currency.

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April 22, 2013, 07:22:01 PM
 #7

My first post on the noob forum jokingly talked about the problem of the blockchain on Mars and beyond if bitcoin is still around 200 years from now. As soon as the blockchain is divided into bitcoin-Mars, bitcoin-Europa, etc, things is going to be a mess...

Some says quantum entanglement would be a solution for every future form of data communications from any two points in the universe without the limitation of the speed of light. Not only that but when Alice Data is locked with Bob Data through this weird, bizarre concept, Carol from NSA CANNOT intercept the Data.

Of course this is still science fiction, but the concept already was proved and worked in the lab as far as Data teleportation.

http://youtu.be/3nq6y9P1_yM

Unfortunately, quantum entanglement doesn't allow faster than light communication.
Wilikon
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April 22, 2013, 08:25:28 PM
 #8

My first post on the noob forum jokingly talked about the problem of the blockchain on Mars and beyond if bitcoin is still around 200 years from now. As soon as the blockchain is divided into bitcoin-Mars, bitcoin-Europa, etc, things is going to be a mess...

Some says quantum entanglement would be a solution for every future form of data communications from any two points in the universe without the limitation of the speed of light. Not only that but when Alice Data is locked with Bob Data through this weird, bizarre concept, Carol from NSA CANNOT intercept the Data.

Of course this is still science fiction, but the concept already was proved and worked in the lab as far as Data teleportation.

http://youtu.be/3nq6y9P1_yM

Unfortunately, quantum entanglement doesn't allow faster than light communication.

Maybe not but it does make two photons to act in sync no mater the distance in space it seems, unless some new tests happen that forbid this I was not aware of. I would like to apologize as I am not a scientist, but the thing that makes this possible may be on a under layer of "our" reality, below the whelm of what we understand as reality were light travels.

In any case no matter the solution, for bitcoin to be amazing for ever (150, 250 years of existence and beyond) the protocol should be linked to the genesis block, no matter where in space and time and represent mankind's official currency when starting trading with other species if ever... :-)
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April 22, 2013, 08:27:48 PM
 #9

The Mars One project is looking to build a community on Mars in 2023.  Presumably the people of Mars would not be governed by a country on Earth and as the community thrives they will need their own currency as a medium of exchange.  Since Bitcoin is also not backed by governments of any country then surely this is the obvious choice of currency for the people of Mars.  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22146456

Mar One project is so crazy that i love it. I doubt it will turn into something other than a huge database of crazy geeks. Still, i love it.

Let's play:

I imagine an early mars community to be strongly governed by the mission organizers in a corporativist/dictatorship style. In any case, when i learned about bitcoin i thought, "ey, these are the famous credits i've seen used on every scifi book". A non physical currency should prevail in out of Earth colonies, where storage space and material resources will be scarce while not energy.

Depending on orbit, 4-20 minutes/light is the distance between Earth and Mars, that's pretty laggy. We shall need to create something like the "Solar System Monetary Network" that operates in huge timelapses. Pluto to Earth is 320 minutes/light, so we might need something that can handle that for the "Last Frontier Space Station" orbiting Pluto. Then the SSMN could be used to link the different currencies, so say, a Marscoin could be send to the Plutocoin system while the Marscoin network remains fast and local.

 Wink

Currency won't be a problem for a long time.  Everything would be strictly controlled just to survive.  You are in a world where there is no breathable air outside, no food, no water and colder then most places on earth.  If any number of things don't happen exactly right everyone dies. 

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April 22, 2013, 08:42:03 PM
 #10

As already mentioned, currency won't be a sensible concept for the first wave of settlers, they'll just be trying to build an infrastructure. I'm not sure how much money gets used at Amundsen-Scott station, for instance.

Once there is a permanent human presence on Mars, and at least some of the inhabitants are producing extra food, fancy clothes, and works of art, they'll need a currency. It would be insane for that currency to depend somehow on how things are back on Earth, since there'd be almost no traffic of goods or people between the two. If the Martians did try to implement a Marscoin operating on the same principles as BitEarthcoin, they'd need their own internet, miners, genesis block, and subsequent blockchain. It would be fascinating to see how a variant of Bitcoin would develop in a 'virgin' environment, where it doesn't have to compete with existing currencies and all the dodgy things that go on with them.

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Eri
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April 22, 2013, 08:44:58 PM
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My first post on the noob forum jokingly talked about the problem of the blockchain on Mars and beyond if bitcoin is still around 200 years from now. As soon as the blockchain is divided into bitcoin-Mars, bitcoin-Europa, etc, things is going to be a mess...

Some says quantum entanglement would be a solution for every future form of data communications from any two points in the universe without the limitation of the speed of light. Not only that but when Alice Data is locked with Bob Data through this weird, bizarre concept, Carol from NSA CANNOT intercept the Data.

Of course this is still science fiction, but the concept already was proved and worked in the lab as far as Data teleportation.

http://youtu.be/3nq6y9P1_yM

Unfortunately, quantum entanglement doesn't allow faster than light communication.

Weird, i was under the impression that wasnt the case. got a link or something? (ill try to look it up later either way)
Wilikon
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April 22, 2013, 09:07:43 PM
 #12

As already mentioned, currency won't be a sensible concept for the first wave of settlers, they'll just be trying to build an infrastructure. I'm not sure how much money gets used at Amundsen-Scott station, for instance.

Once there is a permanent human presence on Mars, and at least some of the inhabitants are producing extra food, fancy clothes, and works of art, they'll need a currency. It would be insane for that currency to depend somehow on how things are back on Earth, since there'd be almost no traffic of goods or people between the two. If the Martians did try to implement a Marscoin operating on the same principles as BitEarthcoin, they'd need their own internet, miners, genesis block, and subsequent blockchain. It would be fascinating to see how a variant of Bitcoin would develop in a 'virgin' environment, where it doesn't have to compete with existing currencies and all the dodgy things that go on with them.


But what would be the point of "splitting" the concept of bitcoin? As an organism mankind is moving forward. Although this is science fiction now, there will be a point in the future where we will look back at 2013 like the societies in Europe were before the discovery of the American continent.
The concept of a Marscoin is cool. But let's say something very rare and amazing exists on Mars. Then going there won't be a matter of being suicidal as you may never come back. Because of that new found rare Mars dirt, you may NEVER EVER want to go back on Earth. Then what would happen? The Marscoin would have a bigger value than the Earthcoin. Instead of Forex between countries people will bet against whole planets. transfers of technologies, minds, wealth will travel to Mars, leaving behind on Earth only those who can only afford to live with that very old Earthcoin, Marscoin being too valuable and too expensive. Maybe some could see their demise as being because of all those fat cats on Mars creating chaos on Earth They were the first ones mining the planet, risking their lives at first, and a lot did die, but now they are ruining the lives of those on planet earth. The one left behind.
Actually, if it was not for Earth, no one would have been able to even travel on Mars anyway. Some would demand a fair share of Mars fortune thanks to their ancestor's investments at risk. This could only escalate to its logical next step. War.

If the same protocol is used everywhere, no split will ever happen no matter where we ended up and those types of division will not repeat in the future like it did many times in our History's past.
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April 22, 2013, 09:13:40 PM
 #13

A planet and its orbit are about the limit of how widely spread the use of a single bitcoin network can be, given it has a block time of 10 minutes, and all planets are at least 10 light minutes apart at some point in their orbit.

So lunar colonist could use bitcoin, but not martians.
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April 22, 2013, 09:17:28 PM
 #14

A planet and its orbit are about the limit of how widely spread the use of a single bitcoin network can be, given it has a block time of 10 minutes, and all planets are at least 10 light minutes apart at some point in their orbit.

So lunar colonist could use bitcoin, but not martians.

So then bitcoin has no future in space exploration and will forever be locked on planet Earth.
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April 22, 2013, 11:31:41 PM
 #15

A planet and its orbit are about the limit of how widely spread the use of a single bitcoin network can be, given it has a block time of 10 minutes, and all planets are at least 10 light minutes apart at some point in their orbit.

So lunar colonist could use bitcoin, but not martians.

So then bitcoin has no future in space exploration and will forever be locked on planet Earth.

Real time bitcoin would be out.  But making a payment would still be possible and confirming receipt of a payment would be possible too.  Double spends would be an issue, so you would really have to wait longer or have some form of trust between parties. 

You could not run Satoshi Dice or any type of real time exchange from Mars on the Bitcoin blockchain.

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April 23, 2013, 12:21:10 AM
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that would make any (future) Fiat currency model a better deal in space/space station, etc... rather than the bitcoin protocol then.
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April 23, 2013, 01:01:34 AM
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that would make any (future) Fiat currency model a better deal in space/space station, etc... rather than the bitcoin protocol then.

Bitcoin could be used like a fiat currency on other planets with a trusted issuer creating bitcoin-backed credit. If you want to have the advantages of the real-time decentralized bitcoin network used on Earth though, you have to be on or near Earth.
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April 23, 2013, 01:21:23 AM
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that would make any (future) Fiat currency model a better deal in space/space station, etc... rather than the bitcoin protocol then.

Bitcoin could be used like a fiat currency on other planets with a trusted issuer creating bitcoin-backed credit. If you want to have the advantages of the real-time decentralized bitcoin network used on Earth though, you have to be on or near Earth.


So far this being near earth thing works for most people.  Gravity helps with this.  Smiley

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April 23, 2013, 05:53:13 AM
 #19

We could make Solcoin, merged-mined, with a target time between blocks of maybe a day to a week or so.

I suppose it might make sense at that point to make it the primary chain and adapt bitcoin to be a secondary chain.

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April 23, 2013, 08:49:40 AM
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we should start with the ISS first. then mars.
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