The Bitcoin Ladder of Wealth [Completely Redisigned]

[Zaih]

I have a feeling I won't be trying this one out!

[1715698892]

1715698892

[1715698892]

1715698892

[1715698892]

1715698892

[BTC4Amazon]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=184139.msg1917524#msg1917524

[keatonatron]

Okay, So I am using hole numbers just to make it easy to show. It would in theory work with any number tho as long as the multiplier is the same.

Code:

Game 1
Price	House	Return
1	0.5	1.5
2	1	3
4	2	6
8	4	12
16	8	24
32	16	48
64	0	0
128	0	0
---------------------
255	31.5	84.5

Hidden Game
Price	Return
~~1	2	
  2	2
~~4	8
  8	8	
~~16	24
  32	48
xx64xxxxxxxGame is live again

Now allow me to explain what this means. As I do like to make this point clear. I was actualy planning on making a nice long addition to the main thread but, this is just as fine. Actually nice to see bitcoins are worth enough now people are worried about what they do with them. But that's off topic anyhow.
The last person to bet is guaranteed 128 Bitcoin at the least. So the easiest thing to do is refund the  top 2 people's money. Which means you have 255-84.5 in paid back money is 170.5
170-64=106.5
Then in order to make back the money the game plays against "ghost.player1" which bets as seen in hidden game not taking any benefit just regaining the money it invested. Which allows the "Last player" from the original game to make his money back. Then once it shows in the wallet that there is enough funds to pay the "last player" back it reopens the game to the public.

Of course your asking, BUT YOU MAKE 0 MONEY, barely break even?!?!?!?! Well, as it may be visible by the post under the OP I am not interested in profit at all at this time. Just getting the game's name out there and showing that it does what I say it does. Once we get a steady stream of users the multiplier will be reduced to 125%-135% and obviously the house will retain more money allowing for me to make a small amount of money off of it.
The game was originally made to be added to a much bigger project but I thought, the best way to get reputation is to let the world see your prototype. So this is what I have, feel free to try the bitcoin ladder of wealth, Again I personally guarantee all funds in the game.

Thanks
BTC4A

That was one of the most confusing explanations yet.

Where did this hidden game and ghost player come from??

Does it mean you are running a second game (with a different name) and are using the house profits from that to provide higher-than-100% returns on the first game? (which, in your example, means the second game needs to earn 100 btc before it can pay back the guy from game 1)

[thisisgil]

Well, it looks like nobody else jumped in, so it appears to have reset itself back to 0.01.

This means I get a refund doesn't it?

[BTC4Amazon]

Well, it looks like nobody else jumped in, so it appears to have reset itself back to 0.01.

This means I get a refund doesn't it?

Yes you do

[tutkarz]

Well, it looks like nobody else jumped in, so it appears to have reset itself back to 0.01.

This means I get a refund doesn't it?

Yes you do

I wonder when you will run out of money
I see most people do this common mistake thinking last paid item is house income. But it was spent already to previous owners ...

If you like to try something new i can give you an idea. maybe you could try this:
when somebody buys item its price increases by 10% but only 90% is returned to previus owner.
That 10% you can spend for a reward for person who last owned an item when it reset.

That way you have reverse gameplay than in that game for example btctreasure.com
people are loosing some money when they sell item but they are earning money when they are item owners after reset. This creates situation when people want to have an item and dont want to sell it.
I dont know if i am clear enough, if not i can explain it more.

[keatonatron]

Well, it looks like nobody else jumped in, so it appears to have reset itself back to 0.01.

This means I get a refund doesn't it?

Yes you do

I wonder when you will run out of money
I see most people do this common mistake thinking last paid item is house income. But it was spent already to previous owners ...

If you like to try something new i can give you an idea. maybe you could try this:
when somebody buys item its price increases by 10% but only 90% is returned to previus owner.
That 10% you can spend for a reward for person who last owned an item when it reset.

That way you have reverse gameplay than in that game for example btctreasure.com
people are loosing some money when they sell item but they are earning money when they are item owners after reset. This creates situation when people want to have an item and dont want to sell it.
I dont know if i am clear enough, if not i can explain it more.

OR....

Each time it is purchased the price goes up 50%, but the previous owner only gets back 95% of what they put in. The last person holding the gem (after random reset or 24 hours of no one buying it) gets the whole pot (what they paid, plus 5% of every payment before them--quite a big payout).

That would turn the whole game upside down and make the end the goal instead of people trying to not be the last one to buy.

[BTC4Amazon]

Well, it looks like nobody else jumped in, so it appears to have reset itself back to 0.01.

This means I get a refund doesn't it?

Yes you do

I wonder when you will run out of money
I see most people do this common mistake thinking last paid item is house income. But it was spent already to previous owners ...

If you like to try something new i can give you an idea. maybe you could try this:
when somebody buys item its price increases by 10% but only 90% is returned to previus owner.
That 10% you can spend for a reward for person who last owned an item when it reset.

That way you have reverse gameplay than in that game for example btctreasure.com
people are loosing some money when they sell item but they are earning money when they are item owners after reset. This creates situation when people want to have an item and dont want to sell it.
I dont know if i am clear enough, if not i can explain it more.

OR....

Each time it is purchased the price goes up 50%, but the previous owner only gets back 95% of what they put in. The last person holding the gem (after random reset or 24 hours of no one buying it) gets the whole pot (what they paid, plus 5% of every payment before them--quite a big payout).

That would turn the whole game upside down and make the end the goal instead of people trying to not be the last one to buy.

I actually like that idea a lot. I will redo the site within the next 30 minutes. heck it's worth a shot right!
Also the buy in will be .001 to start the game. I'm curious when you say goes up by 50% do you mean doubles or multiplies by 150%/1.5x

I will be doing it that way with the low buy in. And will update the op with new information

[dooglus]

I'm curious when you say goes up by 50% do you mean doubles or multiplies by 150%/1.5x

Going up by 50% is multiplying by 1.5.

Doubling is going up by 100%, or multiplying by 2.

I didn't follow your long confusing explanation, but it sounds like your original game promises profits for the early players, and no loss for late players.  Do you see how it's impossible for someone to make a profit if nobody makes a loss, no matter how you work things?

There was a thread like this a week or two ago.  I told the OP that he was either

  a) a scammer who would refuse to refund the last player in full as promised

or

  b) very generous, and willing to take on all the losses himself

It turned out that he was

  c) mistakenly thinking that he could  refund the last player without taking a loss

and ended up deleting all his posts in the thread because he hadn't thought it through.

Which one are you?  

[BTC4Amazon]

Completely Redesigned as stated previously.

Read updated OP here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=184139.msg1916147#msg1916147

I'm curious when you say goes up by 50% do you mean doubles or multiplies by 150%/1.5x

Going up by 50% is multiplying by 1.5.

Doubling is going up by 100%, or multiplying by 2.
--snip--

Thank you for this.

--snip--
Which one are you? 

\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ This was my original intention So B, kind of. New op shows new intentions.

Of course your asking, BUT YOU MAKE 0 MONEY, barely break even?!?!?!?! Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Well, as it may be visible by the post under the OP I am not interested in profit at all at this time. Just getting the game's name out there and showing that it does what I say it does. Once we get a steady stream of users the multiplier will be reduced to 125%-135% and obviously the house will retain more money allowing for me to make a small amount of money off of it.
The game was originally made to be added to a much bigger project but I thought, the best way to get reputation is to let the world see your prototype. So this is what I have, feel free to try the bitcoin ladder of wealth, Again I personally guarantee all funds in the game.

[dooglus]

\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ This was my original intention So B, kind of. New op shows new intentions.

Of course your asking, BUT YOU MAKE 0 MONEY, barely break even?!?!?!?

The problem is, with the original scheme you don't make 0 money, you lose 31.5 money...  Here's an explanation of why.  Your addition was wrong:

Code:

Game 1
Price	House	Return
1	0.5	1.5
2	1	3
4	2	6
8	4	12
16	8	24
32	16	48
64	0	0
128	0	0
---------------------
255	31.5	84.5

Do you have access to a computer?  I find they're better at doing arithmetic than human brains:

Code:

>>> 1.5+3+6+12+24+48
94.5
>>> 31.5*3
94.5

The last person to bet is guaranteed 128 Bitcoin at the least. So the easiest thing to do is refund the  top 2 people's money. Which means you have 255-84.5 in paid back money is 170.5
170-64=106.5
Then in order to make back the money the game plays against "ghost.player1" which bets as seen in hidden game not taking any benefit just regaining the money it invested. Which allows the "Last player" from the original game to make his money back. Then once it shows in the wallet that there is enough funds to pay the "last player" back it reopens the game to the public.

So you have taken 255 from players, and have returned 94.5 already.  That leaves you with 160.5.
You refund the guy who paid 64, leaving you with 160.5-64 = 96.5.
Then you try to refund the guy who paid 128, but you don't have enough.  You're short by 128-96.5 = 31.5.
By a startling coincidence, this is the amount the first 6 players profited by.
To be able to refund the 128 guy you're going to have to come up with the 31.5 profit you gave to the first 6 players.

I don't understand who ghost.player1 is, or what the hidden game is.  Maybe you're gambling on satoshidice or something to try to win back the money you gave away, but you're going to have to come up with it from somewhere.  Because playing imaginary "hidden games" with "ghost" players doesn't create real bitcoins.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your explanation somewhere.  If so, please go into more detail.  Perhaps you've realised the same, which is why you've now changed the game to one where almost everyone loses instead of almost everyone wins?

The problem with the new game is that everyone loses except for the last player, but the stakes go up exponentially, and so does the reward for you deciding to just run off with the money.  In fact, there's nothing to stop you playing the game too.  Whenever someone who isn't you has the highest rung, you can just buy the next rung at no risk to yourself.

[BTC4Amazon]

\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ This was my original intention So B, kind of. New op shows new intentions.

Of course your asking, BUT YOU MAKE 0 MONEY, barely break even?!?!?!?

The problem is, with the original scheme you don't make 0 money, you lose 31.5 money...  Here's an explanation of why.  Your addition was wrong:

Code:

Game 1
Price	House	Return
1	0.5	1.5
2	1	3
4	2	6
8	4	12
16	8	24
32	16	48
64	0	0
128	0	0
---------------------
255	31.5	84.5

Do you have access to a computer?  I find they're better at doing arithmetic than human brains:

Code:

>>> 1.5+3+6+12+24+48
94.5
>>> 31.5*3
94.5

The last person to bet is guaranteed 128 Bitcoin at the least. So the easiest thing to do is refund the  top 2 people's money. Which means you have 255-84.5 in paid back money is 170.5
170-64=106.5
Then in order to make back the money the game plays against "ghost.player1" which bets as seen in hidden game not taking any benefit just regaining the money it invested. Which allows the "Last player" from the original game to make his money back. Then once it shows in the wallet that there is enough funds to pay the "last player" back it reopens the game to the public.

So you have taken 255 from players, and have returned 94.5 already.  That leaves you with 160.5.
You refund the guy who paid 64, leaving you with 160.5-64 = 96.5.
Then you try to refund the guy who paid 128, but you don't have enough.  You're short by 128-96.5 = 31.5.
By a startling coincidence, this is the amount the first 6 players profited by.
To be able to refund the 128 guy you're going to have to come up with the 31.5 profit you gave to the first 6 players.

I don't understand who ghost.player1 is, or what the hidden game is.  Maybe you're gambling on satoshidice or something to try to win back the money you gave away, but you're going to have to come up with it from somewhere.  Because playing imaginary "hidden games" with "ghost" players doesn't create real bitcoins.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your explanation somewhere.  If so, please go into more detail.  Perhaps you've realised the same, which is why you've now changed the game to one where almost everyone loses instead of almost everyone wins?

The problem with the new game is that everyone loses except for the last player, but the stakes go up exponentially, and so does the reward for you deciding to just run off with the money.  In fact, there's nothing to stop you playing the game too.  Whenever someone who isn't you has the highest rung, you can just buy the next rung at no risk to yourself.

All I have to say about the beginning is the game plays a game with my money without reaping any returns.
Other than that I have now changed the whole style of the game so, it is now irrelevant.

Next I would be happy to change the script to forward the profit to a escrow account with John if he would be so willing that way everyone knows there money is safe and then when payout time comes I will pm him an address to send to. So that way the "jackpot" funds are not able to be ran away with as you stated.

But I feel like kind of jumped ahead guess I just wanted to clear that up. I guess you can look at it as you could be paying 5% to post a picture of anything you want, and have a chance at making money.

And another point you made is it would be easy for me to simply out bet everybody every time someone has a chance at winning. Which in my opinion is somewhat my own parogative to take a chance at losing 5% but I am as previously stated adding this to a much larger site so it would not help with my goal of bringing some "publicity" to the site if nobody ever claimed to have won. Actually it wouldn't help at all because at best after 2 games of no one winning people would then be weary that even if someone did win they would not be getting paid etc. etc.

So I hope I cleared everything up for you sir, you are a very well established member of the forum and I believe if it can pass for your approval it would say a lot. So please if something is not clear or you would like some more information about anything just let me know.


--
BTC4A

[dooglus]

All I have to say about the beginning is the game plays a game with my money without reaping any returns.

I don't think that would have worked.  But as you say, that doesn't matter any more because you've changed the game.

Next I would be happy to change the script to forward the profit to a escrow account with John if he would be so willing that way everyone knows there money is safe and then when payout time comes I will pm him an address to send to. So that way the "jackpot" funds are not able to be ran away with as you stated.

Who is John?  I assume he's a trusted forum member, but I don't know who you mean.

Even if you pass 5% of every payment to John, you still stand to make a lot by "doing a runner" once the price gets high enough.  I guess that's no different than any other bitcoin gambling game though.  We always have to trust that the game's host isn't going to abscond with the coins.

I guess you could set the site up such that you never get access to the coins.  It simply tells the new buyer to send 95% of the prize to the last buyer, and 5% to John.  That way so long as we can trust John everything's fine.  Maybe have it start off at 0.01000057 or some such, so the amounts are very uncommon, and so then you can track who has paid who.  But really this sounds like overkill; people can trust you or not as they see fit.

[tutkarz]

Note 2: Thank you to user keatonatron for the idea.

Hmm sorry but it was my idea, that user only said it with other words and values. Im not expecting payments or thanks for this but if you are already doing it, then maybe to correct person? heh
Anyway, in this type of game since gameplay is reversed nobody wants to be first because there is no profit and guaranteed loose of some money
But its good to have some different games not only gem copies.

[keatonatron]

Note 2: Thank you to user keatonatron for the idea.

Hmm sorry but it was my idea, that user only said it with other words and values. Im not expecting payments or thanks for this but if you are already doing it, then maybe to correct person? heh
Anyway, in this type of game since gameplay is reversed nobody wants to be first because there is no profit and guaranteed loose of some money
But its good to have some different games not only gem copies.

Sorry Tutkarz, when I read your post I misunderstood and thought you meant the last person would get back 10% of what they paid in, as a condolence prize for losing. That inspired my idea--which I guess was also your idea without knowing it!

I think BTC4A should give 10% of his profit to each of us  

[tutkarz]

Note 2: Thank you to user keatonatron for the idea.

Hmm sorry but it was my idea, that user only said it with other words and values. Im not expecting payments or thanks for this but if you are already doing it, then maybe to correct person? heh
Anyway, in this type of game since gameplay is reversed nobody wants to be first because there is no profit and guaranteed loose of some money
But its good to have some different games not only gem copies.

Sorry Tutkarz, when I read your post I misunderstood and thought you meant the last person would get back 10% of what they paid in, as a condolence prize for losing. That inspired my idea--which I guess was also your idea without knowing it!

I think BTC4A should give 10% of his profit to each of us  

This is why i mentioned btctreasure.com where player who wont sell its virtual item is paid for following turns for every thransaction in game. But i see people dont understand it either thinking its only 9% (in that example) that looks small but actually 9% of every transaction sums up quickly and there is not much needed to get more money than you paid for your item. Just in following rounds people have to buy for slightly higher price than previous owner. I know someday price will be too high but its only game i know where even after item reset you still have chance to earn more money than you paid.

For example 9% of 1.922 (around 10 round) is 0.1728 (like people think will be their income) but 9% of every transaction for 10 rounds is actually 0.51 (assuming in next round item will go for the same value like previous round). And in that game there are 3 rounds player will be paid.

There is no way someone wont loose money but its like that in every gambling site. No one is going to pay for hosting, work to make game playable and in the end pay people to play his game. But when i see some comments it looks like most people are expecting something like this