http://ripplescam.org/

[cdog]

The ability to make payments in IOUs using Ripple looks like a killer feature

What are you talking about? Making a payment IS NOT and NEVER WILL BE sending someone an IOU.

Making a payment is giving someone something of value. If you want to make an electronic payment, just send Bitcoins.

Sending Bitcoins is anonymous, fast, free and doesnt require a 3rd party corporation, XRPs, or any fees or IOUs.

Sending someone an IOU when they request a payment is pretty much the financial equivalent of trolling.

If you cant pay me NOW, put it on your freaking Amex or Visa card.

Credit Card companies understand how debt works, thats why you pay INTEREST on your LOAN.

Im NOT in the interest free credit business and very few people want to be, because it has a negative expected value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_value

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[bitchess]

BTW the reason I store roughly no wealth in any cryptocurrency is the prevalence of the 2 issues below.

Once I am convinced both are solved.  I will store a significant portion of my liquid assets in the leading cryptocurrency.

1. replacement by a better newer cryptocurrency - there must be a formalized cutover mechanism that allows upgrades, this will allow continual improvement and avoid volatility associated with expectations of being killed by a younger sexier currency.
2. supply must allow inflation - deflationary spiral will doom any transactional economy, any cryptocurrency must either have a perpetual built in inflation mechanism, or banks need to spring up to lend the cryptocurrency

[Red]

@bitchess, there are a group of us discussing similar ideas under the concept name StableCoin <-- not a real coin. That is a site searchable term we've coined for #2 with an option of #1. You might want to introduce yourself in this thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179918.0

[bitchess]

@bitchess, there are a group of us discussing similar ideas under the concept name StableCoin <-- not a real coin. That is a site searchable term we've coined for #2 with an option of #1. You might want to introduce yourself in this thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179918.0

will do

[nyusternie]

https://github.com/rippleFoundation

Source code for the server is not released.

If you would like to contribute to RippleScam.org, send me a PM. I'm also spending a moderate amount on advertising. Send me a PM if you could help.

as a few others have suggested, why don't you add a donation button to the website?
i'm sure you'd receive plenty of support, maybe enough to cover all hosting/marketing expenses.
Coin Widget seems to work very well for that purpose.
----------------------

In my eyes, Ripple in and of itself is clearly NOT a scam.
OpenCoin? They're a whole different story.

since I discovered that they'd stuck they're hands into the VC Cookie-jar, I've lost almost all confidence that they're doing ANYTHING in the interest of bettering the community (more like exploiting it -- as many others have done -- nothing wrong with that, just own up to it -- you're in it for the MONEY).
----------------------

those that truly believe that Ripple IS a scam may want to delve a bit into the ledger using some of the available Client Tools.
They'll then be able to see for themselves just how well Ripple handles some of Bitcoin's weaknesses, namely rapid confirmations.

https://ripple.com/wiki/Change_Process

this seems promising; which again begs the question, "why don't you release the source already?"
what is so hard about implementing a self-contained upgrade notification system?
to make it easy-peasy, set the folder to 777 (not very safe, but...) and it becomes, "click here to upgrade to Ripple v0.2.x ... upgrade complete"
the answer is NOTHING

[bitchess]

https://github.com/rippleFoundation

Source code for the server is not released.

If you would like to contribute to RippleScam.org, send me a PM. I'm also spending a moderate amount on advertising. Send me a PM if you could help.

as a few others have suggested, why don't you add a donation button to the website.
i'm sure you'd receive plenty of support, maybe enough to cover all hosting/marketing expenses.
Coin Widget seems to work very well for that purpose.
----------------------

In my eyes, Ripple in and of itself is clearly NOT a scam.
OpenCoin? They're a whole different story.

since I discovered that they'd stuck they're hands into the VC Cookie-jar, I've lost almost all confidence that they're doing ANYTHING in the interest of bettering the community (more like exploiting it -- as many others have done -- nothing wrong with that, just own up to it -- you're in it for the MONEY).
----------------------

those that truly believe that Ripple IS a scam may want to delve a bit into the ledger using some of the available Client Tools.
They'll then be able to see for themselves just how well Ripple handles some of Bitcoin's weaknesses, namely rapid confirmations.

https://ripple.com/wiki/Change_Process

this seems promising; which again begs the question, "why don't you release the source already?"
what is so hard about implementing a self-contained upgrade notification system?
to make it easy-peasy, set the folder to 777 (not very safe, but...) and it becomes, "click here to upgrade to Ripple v0.2.x ... upgrade complete"
the answer is NOTHING

I strive to be fair.  I am an OpenCoin skeptic like you but let's be fair, no judgment can be fairly passed until everybody has complete access to the codebase.

The context of the situation detracts from our expectation that OpenCoin can prove their trustworthiness.  But hey, let's give them a chance to prove themselves.  Attacking them without all the facts is not productive.

[Red]

this seems promising; which again begs the question, "why don't you release the source already?"
what is so hard about implementing a self-contained upgrade notification system?
to make it easy-peasy, set the folder to 777 (not very safe, but...) and it becomes, "click here to upgrade to Ripple v0.2.x ... upgrade complete"
the answer is NOTHING

Technically, what you propose can be done. I imagine it will be done (with appropriate warnings) once the server software is released. Read my post on eDonkey2000 (above) to grasp the potential consequences of easy/automatic upgrading.

As for why not now. I'm presuming this is OpenCoin's beta period. Beta is a time allotted for potential real world customers to bash on the system and report bugs. This allow OpenCoin to make the system as stable as possible for it's actual P2P FULL release.

[bitchess]

this seems promising; which again begs the question, "why don't you release the source already?"
what is so hard about implementing a self-contained upgrade notification system?
to make it easy-peasy, set the folder to 777 (not very safe, but...) and it becomes, "click here to upgrade to Ripple v0.2.x ... upgrade complete"
the answer is NOTHING

Technically, what you propose can be done. I imagine it will be done (with appropriate warnings) once the server software is released. Read my post on eDonkey2000 (above) to grasp the potential consequences of easy/automatic upgrading.

As for why not now. I'm presuming this is OpenCoin's beta period. Beta is a time allotted for potential real world customers to bash on the system and report bugs. This allow OpenCoin to make the system as stable as possible for it's actual P2P FULL release.

RED, how do you have complete trust in a system that is not yet open completely?  They are openly hidden as of now!  When I try to answer this question logically, it makes me distrust you and your statements.

[Red]

I strive to be fair.  I am an OpenCoin skeptic like you but let's be fair, no judgment can be fairly passed until everybody has complete access to the codebase.

The context of the situation detracts from our expectation that OpenCoin can prove their trustworthiness.  But hey, let's give them a chance to prove themselves.  Attacking them without all the facts is not productive.

Just to be clear bitchess, I DO NOT recommend you or anyone else buy XRP and hold them like you hold BTC. I also do not recommend that anybody EVER buy XRP to speculate on its price. Ever. Period. That is not what XRP is for. Speculative trading in XRP will not make anyone rich EXCEPT OpenCoin founders. It should be clear to the casual observer that OpenCoin can manipulate the exchange price of XRP at will by rapidly adjusting/constricting supply. It is also clear that they will be GIVING AWAY XRP FOR FREE for a long time to come.

I do, however, recommend you personally *acquire* enough XRP to activate two addresses. Then send some XRP back and forth to yourself. I think the minimum amount of XRP required to test out those features is about 150 XRP right now.

What's the best way to *acquire* XRP? Make an address and add it to OpenMarket's Free XRP thread. That gave me 20,000 XRP but it took a day or two to receive them. I was impatient so I asked an OpenCoiner for some in order to test. He gave me a few hundred. FULL DISCLOSURE: I don't expect to EVER buy XRP to use for saving or for spending directly. I will keep some around to use to pay transaction fees. From my experience, the current transaction fee is 0.00001 XRP/transaction. This does not seem to change relative to the amount of XRP send in a transaction.

[bitchess]

I strive to be fair.  I am an OpenCoin skeptic like you but let's be fair, no judgment can be fairly passed until everybody has complete access to the codebase.

The context of the situation detracts from our expectation that OpenCoin can prove their trustworthiness.  But hey, let's give them a chance to prove themselves.  Attacking them without all the facts is not productive.

Just to be clear bitchess, I DO NOT recommend you or anyone else buy XRP and hold them like you hold BTC. I also do not recommend that anybody EVER buy XRP to speculate on its price. Ever. Period. That is not what XRP is for. Speculative trading in XRP will not make anyone rich EXCEPT OpenCoin founders. It should be clear to the casual observer that OpenCoin can manipulate the exchange price of XRP at will buy rapidly adjusting/constricting supply. It is also clear that they will be GIVING AWAY XRP FOR FREE for a long time to come.

I do, however, recommend you personally *acquire* enough XRP to activate two addresses. Then send some XRP back and forth to yourself. I think the minimum amount of XRP required to test out those features is about 150 XRP right now.

What's the best way to *acquire* XRP? Make an address and add it to OpenMarket's Free XRP thread. That gave me 20,000 XRP but it took a day or two to receive them. I was impatient so I asked an OpenCoiner for some in order to test. He gave me a few hundred and now I'm here. FULL DISCLOSURE: I don't expect to EVERY buy XRP to use for saving or for spending directly. I will keep some around to use to pay transaction fees. From my experience, the current transaction fee is 0.00001 XRP/transaction. This does not seem to change relative to the amount of XRP send in a transaction.

wow another hand-waving response that doesn't directly address my question.  How do you have trust in a decentralized currency in which you cannot see proof about the decentralization?

[Red]

Right now I have enough XRP to make 1,700,000,000 PayPal like USD transactions. However, now I need to find a Ripple Gateway I trust to hold USD for me. That is where my worries lie. (my counter party risk is here) Not with OpenCoin.

Does anybody have any personal experiences with any of the current Ripple Gateway operators?

[bitchess]

Right now I have enough XRP to make 1,700,000,000 PayPal like USD transactions. However, now I need to find a Ripple Gateway I trust to hold USD for me. That is where my worries lie. (my counter party risk is here) Not with OpenCoin.

Does anybody have any personal experiences with any of the current Ripple Gateway operators?

I'm just going to stop this back and forth because it's not productive.

Nobody can pass judgment on ripple unless everything is out in the open.  I don't understand why you are so persistent in not responding directly to my concern.

[Red]

wow another hand-waving response that doesn't directly address my question.  How do you have trust in a decentralized currency in which you cannot see proof about the decentralization?

I don't. I trust a currently centralized currency that is not distributed at all yet.
I trust it implicitly because I have ZERO at risk with OpenCoin. They gave me all the XRP I'll ever need. If they shut the whole project down tomorrow I would lose nothing. The same will be true of the majority of their potential customers/users.

These facts cannot change for me over time. My only risk is in choosing to trust a particular Gateway to hold my USD.

[Red]

wow another hand-waving response that doesn't directly address my question.  How do you have trust in a decentralized currency in which you cannot see proof about the decentralization?

How is it hand wavy to recommend you only TRUST OpenCoin enough to ask for Ripple's equivalent of an "invite to their closed beta"?

That is exactly how much I trust OpenCoin.

[bitchess]

wow another hand-waving response that doesn't directly address my question.  How do you have trust in a decentralized currency in which you cannot see proof about the decentralization?

I don't. I trust a currently centralized currency that is not distributed at all yet.
I trust it implicitly because I have ZERO at risk with OpenCoin. They gave me all the XRP I'll ever need. If they shut the whole project down tomorrow I would lose nothing. The same will be true of the majority of their potential customers/users.

These facts cannot change for me over time. My only risk is in choosing to trust a particular Gateway to hold my USD.

Great but it would be stupid of an opencoin employee to publish their code to the world who can copy them completely.  They must have some protection built in as a corporation. 

I don't know the details about what they will publish, but the first thing I will look at when they flip their magic switch is how do they protect their own intellectual property while proving that their system is decentralized.

[bitchess]

wow another hand-waving response that doesn't directly address my question.  How do you have trust in a decentralized currency in which you cannot see proof about the decentralization?

How is it hand wavy to recommend you only TRUST OpenCoin enough to ask for Ripple's equivalent of an "invite to their closed beta"?

That is exactly how much I trust OpenCoin.

I don't care about any BETA, I want to see the code and the protocol in full naked glory.

You cannot establish any trust without that.

[mmeijeri]

Then don't use the beta. It's too late for that anyway, as you cannot currently create an account. I'm glad I created one in time, I had to jump through some hoops to do so.

[bitchess]

Then don't use the beta. It's too late for that anyway, as you cannot currently create an account. I'm glad I created one in time, I had to jump through some hoops to do so.

I won't use the beta.  What value is there?  I won't use ripple or Ripple until I see undeniable proof that OpenCoin is trustable.

[Red]

I don't care about any BETA, I want to see the code and the protocol in full naked glory.

Yes, we get it. You've said that enough it sounds like a childish tantrum.

You cannot establish any trust without that.

I'm fine. YOU cannot establish trust without that. Good for you! Off I go now! Bye bye.

[mmeijeri]

I won't use the beta.  What value is there?  I won't use ripple or Ripple until I see undeniable proof that OpenCoin is trustable.

I found it educational, and I was impressed by the extremely rapid, courteous and helpful response to a bug report I filed. It turned out I simply didn't understand the system well enough and that the alleged bug was not in fact a bug. I agree the system cannot be trusted until after they've open sourced the code, but I have high hopes for Ripple. If nothing else, it would be great for Bitcoin.