Fuck: SegWit, LN, Blockstream, Core, Adam Back, and GMazwell

[traincarswreck]

The hub needs to "make the adjustments" to each channel.

Did you just say in order to make a lightning transaction you need a hub that is online?

A lightning transaction is a promissory note.  You sign a transaction from your account and give the note to the receiver in any way you want. They don't need to be online and you don't need a hub. 

[traincarswreck]

That is not much of a solution for people who want to send to another person with many timezones difference.

User a to merchant b i can understand. User a (EU) to user b (Aus) - nah won't work. Merchant a to user b is tricky when user b isn't online. Merchant can stay online 24 hours, most users won't.

No this is just stupidity.  Lightning transactions are promissory notes. You think one before you thought that it wouldn't be favorable if you couldn't transact to different fucking time zones?  The people that are working on these projects are brilliant you are treating them like they have half the intelligent of you.

You HONESTLY think no one had thought of time zones?

[anonymoustroll420]

Did you just say in order to make a lightning transaction you need a hub that is online?

A lightning transaction is a promissory note.  You sign a transaction from your account and give the note to the receiver in any way you want. They don't need to be online and you don't need a hub.  

Yeah I think you're right. I thought for some reason the hub would need to countersign when you modify the channel. I guess they don't. hltc is pretty complicated.

So the hub and the receiver do not need to be online at the same time as you.

[Quickseller]

They need to be able to communicate with eachother to send eachother the signatures to the updates closing transactions. They don't have to use the internet to do this, however it, by far makes the most sense to.

You figure when they asked you a and b need to be online what they meant was "do a and b need to be able to communicate with each other in any shape or form?"?

For all intents and purposes, you need to either be connected to the internet, or some other private network. If both parties are not connected via some low latency network, then other costs (such as time, and likely communications related) will most likely make it much more efficient to use some other medium of exchange.

[traincarswreck]

For all intents and purposes, you need to either be connected to the internet, or some other private network. If both parties are not connected via some low latency network, then other costs (such as time, and likely communications related) will most likely make it much more efficient to use some other medium of exchange.

Holy fuck.  No. First of all that's bullshit.  LT's are promissary notes. You can even write them on a piece of paper.  What are you suggesting that people are going to use otherwise that is faster and/or cheaper in any form and doesn't require the internet or a private network and is more efficient and not a bank? It's certainly not bitcoin, cash, or any existing payment processor.

What the fuck are you talking about?

For all intents and purpose?  Are you even thinking about the words you are typing?

[traincarswreck]

I actually hope I just don't understand what you are referring to I don't want to know that you are seriously spouting such ignorance on the forum in which Satoshi brought this project about.  I seriously hope I am mistaken now.

[nutildah]

For all intents and purposes, you need to either be connected to the internet, or some other private network. If both parties are not connected via some low latency network, then other costs (such as time, and likely communications related) will most likely make it much more efficient to use some other medium of exchange.

Holy fuck.  No. First of all that's bullshit.  LT's are promissary notes. You can even write them on a piece of paper.  What are you suggesting that people are going to use otherwise that is faster and/or cheaper in any form and doesn't require the internet or a private network and is more efficient and not a bank? It's certainly not bitcoin, cash, or any existing payment processor.

What the fuck are you talking about?

For all intents and purpose?  Are you even thinking about the words you are typing?

The dude makes a living selling forged identities to cyber criminals. Give him a break.

[AngryDwarf]

Holy fuck.  No. First of all that's bullshit.  LT's are promissary notes. You can even write them on a piece of paper.  What are you suggesting that people are going to use otherwise that is faster and/or cheaper in any form and doesn't require the internet or a private network and is more efficient and not a bank? It's certainly not bitcoin, cash, or any existing payment processor.

Promissory notes?

"I promise to pay the bearer 10 BTC"

eventually becomes

"I promise to pay the bearer the sum of 10 promissory notes"

Sounds like fiat system being reinvented all over again.

[traincarswreck]

Promissory notes?

"I promise to pay the bearer 10 BTC"

eventually becomes

"I promise to pay the bearer the sum of 10 promissory notes"

Sounds like fiat system being reinvented all over again.

The difference is they are cryptographically guaranteed, they cannot be reneged on, which is the ENTIRE POINT. now you know what a lightning transaction is, and what the hooplah is.

[Quickseller]

For all intents and purposes, you need to either be connected to the internet, or some other private network. If both parties are not connected via some low latency network, then other costs (such as time, and likely communications related) will most likely make it much more efficient to use some other medium of exchange.

Holy fuck.  No. First of all that's bullshit.  LT's are promissary notes. You can even write them on a piece of paper.  What are you suggesting that people are going to use otherwise that is faster and/or cheaper in any form and doesn't require the internet or a private network and is more efficient and not a bank? It's certainly not bitcoin, cash, or any existing payment processor.

What the fuck are you talking about?

For all intents and purpose?  Are you even thinking about the words you are typing?

You can write down the various signatures on a piece of paper, however you will need to pay for both the paper and the ink to write down the various communications between the two parties (channels). Multiple messages need to be exchanged, including a "handshake" agreement as to what the new state of the LN channel will be, and these messages must be exchanged in a very specific order. If paper is used, then you will need to either handwrite or print the various messages, if the messages are printed, then you must also pay for a portion of the printing equipment. If the font/print is too small to easily read, then scanning equipment will also need to be paid for. The time it takes to print (either with a printer or by hand) the various messages will take time (which is worth money). If you are not physically located in the same location as the other person, payment will need to be made to send the paper containing the messages to the other party. If paper is used to exchange the necessary messages to change the state of a LN channel, then you are almost certainly at risk of the other party of employing a $5 wrench to steal your bitcoin, so some amount of trust will be necessary.

You also have the option of blinking in morse code to the other party in order to exchange the various necessary messages, however this would be very expensive in terms of time.

If you have the option of exchanging messages via pieces of paper, then you will probably be better of exchanging a $10 bill.

Are you even thinking about the words you are typing?

Yes.

[traincarswreck]

You can write down the various signatures on a piece of paper, however you will need to pay for both the paper and the ink to write down the various communications between the two parties (channels). Multiple messages need to be exchanged, including a "handshake" agreement as to what the new state of the LN channel will be, and these messages must be exchanged in a very specific order. If paper is used, then you will need to either handwrite or print the various messages, if the messages are printed, then you must also pay for a portion of the printing equipment. If the font/print is too small to easily read, then scanning equipment will also need to be paid for. The time it takes to print (either with a printer or by hand) the various messages will take time (which is worth money). If you are not physically located in the same location as the other person, payment will need to be made to send the paper containing the messages to the other party. If paper is used to exchange the necessary messages to change the state of a LN channel, then you are almost certainly at risk of the other party of employing a $5 wrench to steal your bitcoin, so some amount of trust will be necessary.

You also have the option of blinking in morse code to the other party in order to exchange the various necessary messages, however this would be very expensive in terms of time.

If you have the option of exchanging messages via pieces of paper, then you will probably be better of exchanging a $10 bill.

Are you even thinking about the words you are typing?

Yes.

And how is this worse than using bitcoin? What problem do you think we are trying to solve and what better solution are you proposing.

You've gone full retard.   You are your avatar. I'm making fun of everyone in this thread for getting their information on LN from this poster.  What the fuck are you all doing, there are numerous videos and papers by the actual people who are creating this technology.  Why would you get your information from someone like this?  

[Alex.BTC]

You can't make this stuff up:

https://twitter.com/Blockstream/status/852162114701504512
7:10 AM - 12 Apr 2017
@Blockstream: Welcome Samson Mow, @Excellion, as Chief Strategy Officer of Blockstream!

[jonald_fyookball]

You can't make this stuff up:

https://twitter.com/Blockstream/status/852162114701504512
7:10 AM - 12 Apr 2017
@Blockstream: Welcome Samson Mow, @Excellion, as Chief Strategy Officer of Blockstream!

isnt this the guy that told lies about Bitmain etc.  what was the story?

[traincarswreck]

isnt this the guy that told lies about Bitmain etc.  what was the story?

This thread is full me pointing examples and give evidence showing that ya'll especially you, are only BU and r/btc and big blocker supporters because you don't know anything about economics and don't have any understanding of how bitcoin actually works.  Who do you think you are convincing with your bullshit?

This thread is FULL of me doing this.

[jonald_fyookball]

isnt this the guy that told lies about Bitmain etc.  what was the story?

This thread is full me pointing examples and give evidence showing that ya'll especially you, are only BU and r/btc and big blocker supporters because you don't know anything about economics and don't have any understanding of how bitcoin actually works.  Who do you think you are convincing with your bullshit?

This thread is FULL of me doing this.

Nobody here gives a fat fiddler's fuck about your goofy economic theories.  I was asking about Samson Mow. 

[traincarswreck]

Nobody here gives a fat fiddler's fuck about your goofy economic theories.  I was asking about Samson Mow. 

Nobody in this thread understands what economic theories are.

[RawDog]

Nobody here gives a fat fiddler's fuck about your goofy economic theories.  I was asking about Samson Mow. 

Nobody in this thread understands what economic theories are.

Please, it is high time for you to stop being an idiot. 

[traincarswreck]

Please, it is high time for you to stop being an idiot.  

Seems to be the only response is ad hominen attack.

You have people in here saying that core devs know nothing about economics.  But the people in thread claiming this perfectly demonstrate they have never read a single book on the subject (except the poster that says the have read 100 economics books and writes for mises.org but thinks macro-economics as a whole is rubbish) telling all the active developers of bitcoin that they don't know what they are doing and that raising the block size is no problem.  

You have people in this thread spreading ridiculous lies about LN and LT's saying things like you need to be on the internet in order to make a transaction.  And saying they are so expensive and inefficient one is better to use bitcoin or cash.

It's just a thread full of people that have no understand of the technology or economics.

Instead of calling me an idiot maybe you might have a dialogue about the content...but you can't can you, because you don't understand or know anything about the ACTUAL content.  

No one in this thread is a Satoshi fan, everyone is here to assert opinions and to refuse to do actual research and homework.  

Why are you all learning about LN from each other, compounding your own lies and ignorance, instead of the experts on the subject? There are many lecture videos and papers on the subject by experts of it.

[jonald_fyookball]

Please, it is high time for you to stop being an idiot.  

Seems to be the only response is ad hominen attack. 

If you weren't a huge troll, I would have a serious conversation with you.

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the guy who claimed that increasing the transaction
capacity damages Bitcoin (not even Core is that retarded).

[traincarswreck]

If you weren't a huge troll, I would have a serious conversation with you.

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the guy who claimed that increasing the transaction
capacity damages Bitcoin (not even Core is that retarded).

Another ad hominem.  Here's the thing.  It's not trolling to point out that you don't actually understand the subject you are speaking about.  And again when you point out what I am saying is retarded, but I am speaking about the macro-economic implications of bitcoin, and you admittedly don't know anything about macro-economics, its only your ignorance you displaying.