I'm back!

[Matthew N. Wright]

More interesting is that fact that the stamps are on PAGE 20 of his alleged passport. That's a heck of a lot of traveling for someone under 18. 

Besides admitting to constantly travelling, even my passport stamps are randomly placed by Korean and Japanese immigration when I leave and come back. They usually put my VISA stickers right smack dab in the middle of a few empty pages too.

[jimbobway]

The code may be bad (a lot better now), but that's not the direct cause of the hacks. The infrastructure is a bigger problem. As I was the only guy building infrastructure, I will take the responsibility.

Objectives for my next project:
- Test code ratio: 1.5 : 1
- LOC/M: 5-6
- Leave infrastructure to a more experienced sysadmin/security professional that I personally know

I don't think you've figured it out yet zhoutong.  The problem you have is figuring out who to trust and who to work with.

1.) You chose to work with Bitcoin Consultancy (genjix).  FAIL.
2.) One of your partners stole stole your password.  You trusted his computer.  FAIL.
3.) You prefer the one-man-team where you code and do everything, trusting little to no one.  FAIL.
4.) You hosted Bitcoinica in the cloud and trusted them, and put the wallet in the cloud losing tens of thousands of BTCs. FAIL.

So in your objectives you need, "Learn who to trust".

[chunglam]

Welcome back, Zhou.

[zhoutong]

The code may be bad (a lot better now), but that's not the direct cause of the hacks. The infrastructure is a bigger problem. As I was the only guy building infrastructure, I will take the responsibility.

Objectives for my next project:
- Test code ratio: 1.5 : 1
- LOC/M: 5-6
- Leave infrastructure to a more experienced sysadmin/security professional that I personally know

I don't think you've figured it out yet zhoutong.  The problem you have is figuring out who to trust and who to work with.

1.) You chose to work with Bitcoin Consultancy (genjix).  FAIL.
2.) One of your partners stole stole your password.  You trusted his computer.  FAIL.
3.) You prefer the one-man-team where you code and do everything, trusting little to no one.  FAIL.
4.) You hosted Bitcoinica in the cloud and trusted them, and put the wallet in the cloud losing tens of thousands of BTCs. FAIL.

So in your objectives you need, "Learn who to trust".

I didn't choose my partners. I sold Bitcoinica in 2011. I can take only advisory responsibility for anything happened in 2012.

[Pangia]

I know very little about you, but I have read all of your responses in the thread and I can say with the utmost certainty that you are NOT 18 years of age.  With that said, if you're lying about that simple fact, then I have significant doubts about everything else you're saying.

Unless he has excellent counterfeit ID, he's 18.  He was able to incorporate NameTerrific as a company on his 18th birthday and that requires producing valid ID here.

Saw that you posted a plane ticket from when you were 16? or 17?   Are minors allowed to fly internationally by themselves and go through singapore and aussie customs?

Yes.

More interesting is that fact that the stamps are on PAGE 20 of his alleged passport. That's a heck of a lot of traveling for someone under 18.  

It's amazing that some of you folks actually believe this perps story.

Chinese ports stamp near the visa page. Other ports stamp near other stamps. There are a few empty pages before Page 20.

prove that you're 18.

post a nice long youtube video of you speaking about everything that you've spoken about here. You can even hold up your alleged passport and show us that the person on the youtube video is the same person on the passport with the picture.

Then you can answer some of the questions that have been posted here on the youtube video. 

That's easy to do isn't it.  You can actually do that right now.

[BTC Books]

Very few people have met me so far

Name one.  Just one on this forum who has any level of trust, and is known face-to-face by other users.

One.

Wondering...

Waiting patiently...

[tvbcof]

Glad to see you back.

If you are looking for a project, could you build Mt. Gox a matching engine that that works with some modicum of performance?  It may or may not be your thing, but someone of the 7 billion people on earth should be able to do something for Christsake!

[Inedible]

First of all, welcome back.

I still don't know if you're guilty or not because I haven't seen hard evidence either way.

My feeling is that you're genuine but maybe I'm a sucker.

There's certainly no hard evidence against you and your actions seem like the actions of an honest person.

As there's no real way to clear up your past, I guess we'll only be able to tell from your future actions. Let's hope you proceed with caution and in time show yourself to be an upstanding member of the community.

Good luck!

[Inedible]

This person (Zhou Tong) isn't 18.  Without going into details, in my profession (for the past 20 years) I have interviewed hundreds of individuals. One of the things that we look for is a slight inconsistency in their story which we then go after it.  Sometimes the inconsistency is due to something innocent (hiding an affair, minor theft) relative to what we're looking into.  But more often than not, it's a slip-up on their part because they're trying to hide something else (what we're actually interested in).  Once we get to that "something else", then we widen the hole in their story.  Further inconsistencies are developed by them to explain away the initial lie which leads to the hole in their story becoming wider and wider, with the final outcome either being them admitting to what occurred or requesting an attorney since their back is now against the wall with a mountain of lies on top of them.

My understanding is that someone's met him before and he's also posted pictures of ID as proof.

That being the case, you might have painted your credibility into a bit of a corner here.

For your sake, Zhou Tong had better not turn out to be 18, eh? I mean, it's going to be very hard for him to pretend to be 18 when he attends other Bitcoin meetings...

[Inedible]

Yeah, zhoutong isn't a bad guy.  Maybe a few holes in the original code, then followed up by new ownership that were more careless and - boom - shit storm.


Still, zhoutong made a valuable contribution to the bitcoin community with good intentions.



welcome back.

Once evidence started pointing towards zhou, zhou himself said that an associate of zhou's stole the password and the bitcoins.  He provided this "friend's" name.  And claimed the friend was involved in organized crime and also a hunter of ancient antiquities and relics.  Then after outing the mysterious relic hunter, he can't or won't provide any more details about the 'real' thief's identity that would allow authorities to track him down.

I don't know about you, but I don't think it's wise to rat out a multi-millionaire organized criminal.  Such a person would be likely to do something to shut you up.  Not like bitcoiners who get scammed and complain and do nothing.

If you actually believe this ridiculous story, zhou knows the identity of the bitcoinia thief, inadvreallyertently provided him with enough info to steal the passwords, and isn't doing anything to assist in catching the thief.

And if you don't, then zhou is like OJ Simpson, talking about the 'real' thief to deflect blame away from himself.

Either way, I wouldn't trust him.

WOW! Classic con-man.

So you've verified all that information before making your conclusion or have you just accepted as fact, information posted on a public forum by a stranger?

You use these same analytical skills for your 20yr career?

[Inedible]

More interesting is that fact that the stamps are on PAGE 20 of his alleged passport. That's a heck of a lot of traveling for someone under 18.  

And at 17, he's also a bronz level frequent flyer. find 1 tiny lie and everything else can be unraveled.

It's amazing that some of you folks actually believe this perps story.

Not sure if you travel much but where a passport is stamped is not a guarantee of how much a person has travelled. In some instances (a very low rate), passports are stamped chronologically but more often than not, it's random.

I had friends at school (16yrs old) who travelled over 50,000 miles a year so being in a frequent flyer band is barely a basis for anything.

Looks like your conclusions are all based on your own beliefs rather than hard fact.


Edited: Clarifying flying miles statement.

[repentance]

Link to the thread in which Zhou introduces the Chinese relic collector as the culprit in the last Bitcoinica hack.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95795.0

Link to thread in which AurumXchange makes public a connection between the MtGox intrusion and activity on Zhou's account.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95738.0

[Pangia]

Yeah, zhoutong isn't a bad guy.  Maybe a few holes in the original code, then followed up by new ownership that were more careless and - boom - shit storm.


Still, zhoutong made a valuable contribution to the bitcoin community with good intentions.



welcome back.

Once evidence started pointing towards zhou, zhou himself said that an associate of zhou's stole the password and the bitcoins.  He provided this "friend's" name.  And claimed the friend was involved in organized crime and also a hunter of ancient antiquities and relics.  Then after outing the mysterious relic hunter, he can't or won't provide any more details about the 'real' thief's identity that would allow authorities to track him down.

I don't know about you, but I don't think it's wise to rat out a multi-millionaire organized criminal.  Such a person would be likely to do something to shut you up.  Not like bitcoiners who get scammed and complain and do nothing.

If you actually believe this ridiculous story, zhou knows the identity of the bitcoinia thief, inadvreallyertently provided him with enough info to steal the passwords, and isn't doing anything to assist in catching the thief.

And if you don't, then zhou is like OJ Simpson, talking about the 'real' thief to deflect blame away from himself.

Either way, I wouldn't trust him.

WOW! Classic con-man.

So you've verified all that information before making your conclusion or have you just accepted as fact, information posted on a public forum by a stranger?

You use these same analytical skills for your 20yr career?

My 20 year career has taught me that there are con-men and there are victims.  Victims are sometimes reluctant to accept the fact that they are victims or will be victims.  

On this forum, I'm not the one who has to establish credibility. Instead I'm the one that can question the stories put forward by an individual who has not proven anything that he has espoused thus far.  

I'm not here to attempt to convince anyone to once again "believe" in me because I'm here with a new project and need the buy-in of forum members.  

This person re-surfaced after 11 months? WHY?

New Project? That must be con-man talk for "New Scam".

Wonder if it's a new trading site scam.

P.S. -- you're willing to defend this perp without factual evidence to disprove the allegations against him?

Guess, Zhou Tong has multiple user names.

[Pangia]

More interesting is that fact that the stamps are on PAGE 20 of his alleged passport. That's a heck of a lot of traveling for someone under 18.  

And at 17, he's also a bronz level frequent flyer. find 1 tiny lie and everything else can be unraveled.

It's amazing that some of you folks actually believe this perps story.

Not sure if you travel much but where a passport is stamped is not a guarantee of how much a person has travelled. In some instances (a very low rate), passports are stamped chronologically but more often than not, it's random.

I had friends at school (16yrs old) who travelled over 50,000 miles a year so being in a frequent flyer band is barely a basis for anything.

Looks like your conclusions are all based on your own beliefs rather than hard fact.


Edited: Clarifying flying miles statement.

Hi Inedible,

What can easily remedy some of the questions being posed here about the credibility of Zhou Tong, is a nice long youtube video where he explains everything in detail (including the organized crime figure/relic hunter).

If he posts a nice long youtube video and holds up his alleged passport to proved that he's the same person that traveled on the dates of those stamps then I'll shut up and stop "jumping to conclusions" about a guy that was 17 that ran off with other people's money. 

Waiting for that youtube video Zhou Tong!!!!!

I'm going to create a new thread just to ask for that video.

[Matthew N. Wright]

More interesting is that fact that the stamps are on PAGE 20 of his alleged passport. That's a heck of a lot of traveling for someone under 18.  

And at 17, he's also a bronz level frequent flyer. find 1 tiny lie and everything else can be unraveled.

It's amazing that some of you folks actually believe this perps story.

Not sure if you travel much but where a passport is stamped is not a guarantee of how much a person has travelled. In some instances (a very low rate), passports are stamped chronologically but more often than not, it's random.

I had friends at school (16yrs old) who travelled over 50,000 miles a year so being in a frequent flyer band is barely a basis for anything.

Looks like your conclusions are all based on your own beliefs rather than hard fact.


Edited: Clarifying flying miles statement.

Hi Inedible,

What can easily remedy some of the questions being posed here about the credibility of Zhou Tong, is a nice long youtube video where he explains everything in detail (including the organized crime figure/relic hunter).

If he posts a nice long youtube video and holds up his alleged passport to proved that he's the same person that traveled on the dates of those stamps then I'll shut up and stop "jumping to conclusions" about a guy that was 17 that ran off with other people's money. 

Waiting for that youtube video Zhou Tong!!!!!

I'm going to create a new thread just to ask for that video.

Somehow I doubt that would answer *any* of the questions posed in this thread.

[Inedible]

My 20 year career has taught me that there are con-men and there are victims.  Victims are often reluctant to accept the fact that they are victims or will be victims.  

On this forum, I'm not the one who has to establish credibility. Instead I'm the one that can question the stories put forward by an individual who has not proven anything that he has espoused thus far.  

I'm not here to attempt to convince anyone to once again "believe" in me because I'm here with a new project and need the buy-in of forum members.  

This person re-surfaced after 11 months? WHY?

New Project? That must be con-man talk for "New Scam".

You're making an argument from authority with your claim of 20yrs of experience in detecting lies. You kinda need to back it up with some evidence seeing as you're impugning someone else's reputation.

I don't know why he's resurfaced and you're right to be sceptical as I'm sure anyone should would be.

With your 20yrs of experience you might well be correct (that he's definitely over 18 and that he's the criminal mastermind of the stolen Bitcoinica funds) but I'm just saying that you've come to a definite conclusion based on opinions (not facts) that don't support your position which, to me, casts your other opinions/conclusions in doubt.

[Pangia]

Waiting for that youtube video Zhou Tong!!!!!

I'm going to create a new thread just to ask for that video.

Somehow I doubt that would answer *any* of the questions posed in this thread.


The defensive answer of course is to say that the video wouldn't help.

Somehow, I doubt that he would ever post a nice long video of him explaining everything whilst holding up his passport for all to see.

[Pangia]

My 20 year career has taught me that there are con-men and there are victims.  Victims are often reluctant to accept the fact that they are victims or will be victims.  

On this forum, I'm not the one who has to establish credibility. Instead I'm the one that can question the stories put forward by an individual who has not proven anything that he has espoused thus far.  

I'm not here to attempt to convince anyone to once again "believe" in me because I'm here with a new project and need the buy-in of forum members.  

This person re-surfaced after 11 months? WHY?

New Project? That must be con-man talk for "New Scam".

You're making an argument from authority with your claim of 20yrs of experience in detecting lies. You kinda need to back it up with some evidence seeing as you're impugning someone else's reputation.

I don't know why he's resurfaced and you're right to be sceptical as I'm sure anyone should would be.

With your 20yrs of experience you might well be correct (that he's definitely over 18 and that he's the criminal mastermind of the stolen Bitcoinica funds) but I'm just saying that you've come to a definite conclusion based on opinions (not facts) that don't support your position which, to me, casts your other opinions/conclusions in doubt.

You are most welcomed to casts doubts on my hunch because I'm not here trying to sell a "new project".

In regards to impugning Zhou Tong's reputation, did I really impugn it? I think that he's done a wonderful job all on his own with that. 

What I have put forward is an ideal opportunity to shut everyone up.

Put up a long youtube video to explain everything and hold up his alleged passport to prove that it's actually his.

If you or I were in his position (attempting to establish our credibility), how difficult would that be?

[Inedible]

Hi Inedible,

What can easily remedy some of the questions being posed here about the credibility of Zhou Tong, is a nice long youtube video where he explains everything in detail (including the organized crime figure/relic hunter).

If he posts a nice long youtube video and holds up his alleged passport to proved that he's the same person that traveled on the dates of those stamps then I'll shut up and stop "jumping to conclusions" about a guy that was 17 that ran off with other people's money. 

Waiting for that youtube video Zhou Tong!!!!!

I'm going to create a new thread just to ask for that video.

Hi Pangia,

That would definitely prove his age. (He'd probably want to mask out his passport number though.) Not sure he'd want to have a video of him talking about this incident though - certainly any lawyer would tell him not to but if proof of age is one of the issues, this would definitely sort it out.

I believe a credible member of Bitcointalk once vouched for his age and his word was good enough for the masses the last time this came up but I don't remember the username. Maybe someone else does?

As far as jumping to conclusions is concerned, you've stated as fact that you know he's older than 18 and through various other beliefs you claimed he was a con artist (it's part of your job to know these things after all). Personally, I don't know if he's 18 or 38 but I remember the last time this came up, I was concerned that he might be a minor and it was a bit too much like a mob after one kid. Everyone was all "well he might be an old man" and I was all like "what if he's not?". Things calmed down after a while but there were threats of physical violence at the time.

Anyway, I hope your request for the video works out. Might work better if you don't come from a neutral position rather than that of "I know you're guilty!".

[BTC Books]

Very few people have met me so far

Name one.  Just one on this forum who has any level of trust, and is known face-to-face by other users.

One.

Wondering...

Waiting patiently...

Oh zhoutong... hello?  Over here...