How today was my last btc transaction.

[jonald_fyookball]

****
The users want fast confirmations and low fees.  Blockstream controlled Core devs don't care what you want.  They're going to scale Bitcoin according to their own roadmap, and if you don't like, tough shit.

Any questions?

Where is your blocksize limit at 2MB/20MB/200MB/2000MB ?

I say we let the free market decide.  If storage becomes expensive, and/or the users see nodes becoming too centralized, then they can choose off chain solutions.  No need to centrally plan it.

[Holliday]

The users free shit army wants fast confirmations and low fees, and they don't give a damn who pays for it, nor do they care if it erodes the very thing that makes Bitcoin uniquely useful, and therefore valuable, in the first place!

FTFY!

Holliday, I respect you, but I think this idea that Bitcoin can be Gold 2.0 without first establishing widespread use is one of the dumbest ideas in the whole debate.

Scarcity alone doesn't provide value.  (e.g. Tulip Bulbs)

The security model doesn't work either imo -- kind of like how tax revenues go down when you raise the tax rate, because the base just shrinks.

But hey, we'll see.  I've been wrong before.

No, what is stupid is thinking we can just give people whatever they want while ignoring the real costs and resources required to achieve those things.

I'm about as big a Bitcoin "fanatic" as you will find, but Bitcoin will never achieve "widespread" use. I don't know if you interact with "normal" people, but I do on a regular basis, and any time Bitcoin is the discussion, a huge majority of them have no clue what it is, how it works, nor do they ever intend to find out. Most of them are outright hostile to the idea! These people don't even understand how fiat works, which they use every day of their lives! Trying to design monetary freedom around these people is pure folly.

A system where the decentralized model relies on full nodes keeping a record of every transaction since the first simply can't be used by the "mainstream" for "everyday" transactions. I feel like I'm beating my head against a brick wall, but I don't understand why you can't grasp this! The sacrifices and trade-offs required to keep Bitcoin transactions cheap and fast forever will ultimately turn it into something completely unrecognizable, and ultimately useless.

[andron8383]

***
I say we let the free market decide.  If storage becomes expensive, and/or the users see nodes becoming too centralized, then they can choose off chain solutions.  No need to centrally plan it.

you see how is now going both sides miners/core devs have no plan/road map how go with that.
for me it should be today we go for like 1.5MB-2MB block-size but we agree for segwit to migrate small translations to 2nd layer where you don' care about security that much.
Then bitcoin can go to next lvl.

If you want let market decide then you need to create forks and see where is that going better over years.
But with forks you divide community and userbase.
THat is why that whole moves have to be planed.
I don't want rob miners from fees but they have to be aware of that they won't get all cake.
People will just move to ETH then DASH then X Y Z coin on the timeline.
And end game will be crypto with no bock-chain and no miners... just nodes payed for that they are exits.

[mkc]

You can try lite coin, bitcoin is very cubbersome to use now a days.

[aardvark15]

You can try lite coin, bitcoin is very cubbersome to use now a days.

This is one reason why altcoins can thrive even if Bitcoin remains top dog. At some point, Bitcoin will be hard to get and very expensive, so various altcoins could be used for small transactions.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Which in turn costs more then other traditional methods. Paying almost or even more then 10% of the amount being sent is ridiculous.
For large payments this is no issue. But for normal small payments it just doesn't make sense. Not when your making 20-50 transactions daily.

I totally agree with this sentiment.   It would be so much easier to use dash or doge for stuff, but NO ONE takes those coins.  Nevertheless,  I'm happy with bitcoin as an investment and not a currency.   

[AgentofCoin]

The users free shit army wants fast confirmations and low fees, and they don't give a damn who pays for it, nor do they care if it erodes the very thing that makes Bitcoin uniquely useful, and therefore valuable, in the first place!

FTFY!

Holliday, I respect you, but I think this idea that Bitcoin can be Gold 2.0 without first establishing widespread use is one of the dumbest ideas in the whole debate.
Scarcity alone doesn't provide value.  (e.g. Tulip Bulbs)
The security model doesn't work either imo -- kind of like how tax revenues go down when you raise the tax rate, because the base just shrinks.
But hey, we'll see.  I've been wrong before.

No, what is stupid is thinking we can just give people whatever they want while ignoring the real costs and resources required to achieve those things.

I'm about as big a Bitcoin "fanatic" as you will find, but Bitcoin will never achieve "widespread" use. I don't know if you interact with "normal" people, but I do on a regular basis, and any time Bitcoin is the discussion, a huge majority of them have no clue what it is, how it works, nor do they ever intend to find out. Most of them are outright hostile to the idea! These people don't even understand how fiat works, which they use every day of their lives! Trying to design monetary freedom around these people is pure folly.

A system where the decentralized model relies on full nodes keeping a record of every transaction since the first simply can't be used by the "mainstream" for "everyday" transactions. I feel like I'm beating my head against a brick wall, but I don't understand why you can't grasp this! The sacrifices and trade-offs required to keep Bitcoin transactions cheap and fast forever will ultimately turn it into something completely unrecognizable, and ultimately useless.

I agree 100%.
If Bitcoin can become a widespread currency, it will need to be decades off.
Anything sooner is a delusion created from the hype/pumper groups.
"Rub this bitcoin cream on your skin, it even takes away your wrinkles!!!"

If noobs only want low fees and faster confirmations, they should leave Bitcoin for those scam coins.
That will be the only way for them to learn their lessons. Some people need to touch the hot flame.
They want Bitcoin to become just like the system that Satoshi create Bitcoin to counter.

[coolcoinz]

i have no idea how this all works and i don't care either,i just want it to work

Ignorant or plain stupid? Maybe both. Did you come here to complain or just show the whole world that you're now butthurt about Bitcoin not sending your money as fast and as cheap as you'd like it to?
Go back to fiat, it will be just as you want it to and you will still have no idea how it works.

[lottery248]

Any other people feeling the same like me who are tired of these slow confirmation like today?

Pay a better transaction fee, get faster confirmation. Problem solved.

at a multiple transaction is not even convenient, in the bitcoin core, it is protecting people from insufficient funds to mine. as well, the higher transaction fee is not a great solution to major one.

[unamis76]

Just to make this clear, i have no idea how this all works and i don't care either,i just want it to work.

Things aren't going to get fixed for or by people who "don't care". I understand your situation, we are all on the same boat, but when someone claims he "doesn't" care, then the answer is indeed use higher fees... Because nobody cares about people who don't care. However, you care enough to use Bitcoin...

Yes but bitcoin as decentralized coin have its limits storage/network/cpu power. Its easy to call increase 1MB/2MB/3MB/100MB.
To increase BTC size to needed lvl of Visa we need datacenters.
Visa with 2000tx/s have is equal 1000MB blocks and 370 TB year
Do you really believe that full decentralized network can handle that ?

This has been said on the forums many, many times: We aren't getting Visa-like usage out of the blue.

[jonald_fyookball]

The users free shit army wants fast confirmations and low fees, and they don't give a damn who pays for it, nor do they care if it erodes the very thing that makes Bitcoin uniquely useful, and therefore valuable, in the first place!

FTFY!

Holliday, I respect you, but I think this idea that Bitcoin can be Gold 2.0 without first establishing widespread use is one of the dumbest ideas in the whole debate.
Scarcity alone doesn't provide value.  (e.g. Tulip Bulbs)
The security model doesn't work either imo -- kind of like how tax revenues go down when you raise the tax rate, because the base just shrinks.
But hey, we'll see.  I've been wrong before.

No, what is stupid is thinking we can just give people whatever they want while ignoring the real costs and resources required to achieve those things.

I'm about as big a Bitcoin "fanatic" as you will find, but Bitcoin will never achieve "widespread" use. I don't know if you interact with "normal" people, but I do on a regular basis, and any time Bitcoin is the discussion, a huge majority of them have no clue what it is, how it works, nor do they ever intend to find out. Most of them are outright hostile to the idea! These people don't even understand how fiat works, which they use every day of their lives! Trying to design monetary freedom around these people is pure folly.

A system where the decentralized model relies on full nodes keeping a record of every transaction since the first simply can't be used by the "mainstream" for "everyday" transactions. I feel like I'm beating my head against a brick wall, but I don't understand why you can't grasp this! The sacrifices and trade-offs required to keep Bitcoin transactions cheap and fast forever will ultimately turn it into something completely unrecognizable, and ultimately useless.

I agree 100%.
If Bitcoin can become a widespread currency, it will need to be decades off.
Anything sooner is a delusion created from the hype/pumper groups.
"Rub this bitcoin cream on your skin, it even takes away your wrinkles!!!"

If noobs only want low fees and faster confirmations, they should leave Bitcoin for those scam coins.
That will be the only way for them to learn their lessons. Some people need to touch the hot flame.
They want Bitcoin to become just like the system that Satoshi create Bitcoin to counter.

guys, whether its 5, 10 , 20, or 30 years, the only we're gonna get there is low fees and fast transactions.  I guess we're just not on the same page and maybe never will be.  And that's fine.   The market is going to do what its going to do.

[ASHLIUSZ]

Being a very active gambler i was usually pretty satisfied with btc. The stakes are higher then other sportsbook sites and i like the fact that i don't need any personal information. Well this all changed during recent events with the so called mempool. Just to make this clear, i have no idea how this all works and i don't care either,i just want it to work.

The problem with this is i play on various sites and most of the time i make last minute bets on games in different sports and the transactions have to be almost instant and be confirmed before the bets are being payed out to me again.

Most sites credit the btc after just 1 confirmation which by the looks of it is going to take hours again with almost 45.000 waiting transactions in the mempool. It happened before and it's happening again and it's time for me to say goodbye to bitcoin.

Any other people feeling the same like me who are tired of these slow confirmation like today?

The users want fast confirmations and low fees.  Blockstream controlled Core devs don't care what you want.  They're going to scale Bitcoin according to their own roadmap, and if you don't like, tough shit.

Any questions?

Is blockstream the leader to make all such activities. If so blockstream tries to make it a centralized system which function under their control. Now the transaction that stuck into the network have now decreased a lot though the price for immediate confirmation have increased.

[AgentofCoin]

The users free shit army wants fast confirmations and low fees, and they don't give a damn who pays for it, nor do they care if it erodes the very thing that makes Bitcoin uniquely useful, and therefore valuable, in the first place!

FTFY!

Holliday, I respect you, but I think this idea that Bitcoin can be Gold 2.0 without first establishing widespread use is one of the dumbest ideas in the whole debate.
Scarcity alone doesn't provide value.  (e.g. Tulip Bulbs)
The security model doesn't work either imo -- kind of like how tax revenues go down when you raise the tax rate, because the base just shrinks.
But hey, we'll see.  I've been wrong before.

No, what is stupid is thinking we can just give people whatever they want while ignoring the real costs and resources required to achieve those things.

I'm about as big a Bitcoin "fanatic" as you will find, but Bitcoin will never achieve "widespread" use. I don't know if you interact with "normal" people, but I do on a regular basis, and any time Bitcoin is the discussion, a huge majority of them have no clue what it is, how it works, nor do they ever intend to find out. Most of them are outright hostile to the idea! These people don't even understand how fiat works, which they use every day of their lives! Trying to design monetary freedom around these people is pure folly.

A system where the decentralized model relies on full nodes keeping a record of every transaction since the first simply can't be used by the "mainstream" for "everyday" transactions. I feel like I'm beating my head against a brick wall, but I don't understand why you can't grasp this! The sacrifices and trade-offs required to keep Bitcoin transactions cheap and fast forever will ultimately turn it into something completely unrecognizable, and ultimately useless.

I agree 100%.
If Bitcoin can become a widespread currency, it will need to be decades off.
Anything sooner is a delusion created from the hype/pumper groups.
"Rub this bitcoin cream on your skin, it even takes away your wrinkles!!!"

If noobs only want low fees and faster confirmations, they should leave Bitcoin for those scam coins.
That will be the only way for them to learn their lessons. Some people need to touch the hot flame.
They want Bitcoin to become just like the system that Satoshi create Bitcoin to counter.

guys, whether its 5, 10 , 20, or 30 years, the only [way] we're gonna get there is low fees and fast transactions.  I guess we're just not on the same page and maybe never will be.  And that's fine.   The market is going to do what its going to do.

My distinction is that as technology advances over the 5, 10, 20, or 30 years, then we can
scale on-chain and along the way. So, as time goes on, bitcoin will transform from a "gold
storage" to a "currency". We can not be a currency now or anytime soon.

If Satoshi truly intended a decentralized currency, he was 20-50 years too early for mass
amounts of users. Technology has not caught up to Satoshi's vision with large adoption.

I want on-chain scaling, but IMO on-chain scaling now (depending on size) is dangerous.
Would you allow a baby to cross the street by itself? Or do you raise and guide the child
till they learn everything and then they can go and cross the street on their own without
your observation or concern? Point is, that Bitcoin is still a baby, and too much risk could
harm the baby. Over time, as the baby grows and matures, we can safely scale on-chain.

The "bitcoin as gold storage" users are not "holding Bitcoin back", it is technology itself.
I would rather have a decentralized gold now and decentralized currency later, than a
centralized and regulatable currency now.

[jonald_fyookball]

My distinction is that as technology advances over the 5, 10, 20, or 30 years, then we can
scale on-chain and along the way.

dude... storage costs have already decreased like 10 fold since the 1mb has been put in place -- why
aren't we then at at 10mb blocks?

This stagnation is just indefensible... and it would be insane until you realize its being done willfully by Blockstream.

[JanpriX]

You could always plan ahead and expect the unexpected by putting ample amount of BTC few hours or days earlier to the sites that you use in gambling. By doing this, you are guaranteed to have your BTC ready when the need to bet spontaneously arises. But then, it is always your choice whether you'll be using BTC or not. There are always pros and cons in anything that we use. You should just ask yourself if the pros outweigh the cons, in this case, whether to still use BTC in your gambling activities or not.

[AgentofCoin]

...
My distinction is that as technology advances over the 5, 10, 20, or 30 years, then we can
scale on-chain and along the way.

dude... storage costs have already decreased like 10 fold since the 1mb has been put in place -- why
aren't we then at at 10mb blocks?

This stagnation is just indefensible... and it would be insane until you realize its being done willfully by Blockstream.

Storage capability is not the problem.
The problem is broadband, processing, and etc.
The larger the blocks become the more regular people can no longer handle the data load.
We do not want people to have to build custom systems just to relay block and tx data.
No one would do that for free and would cause validator nodes to decrease and ultimately
forced to centralize around a few companies or whatever, who can handle the massive load.

The miners willing centralized in their race for hash supremacy. There is no incentive for
validator nodes to centralize, like the miners did. In fact, they should try to remain decentralized
as a checks & balances to the centralization of the miners. If both systems become fully centralized,
then Bitcoin fails IMO. Everything then becomes a big scam for dumb investors and noobs.

If we can slow the on-chain scaling to bumps over time, by 2055 we can have people at home
validating with their normal computer systems while also using bitcoin as the currency that
Satoshi envisioned, IMO.

[Kakmakr]

Being a very active gambler i was usually pretty satisfied with btc. The stakes are higher then other sportsbook sites and i like the fact that i don't need any personal information. Well this all changed during recent events with the so called mempool. Just to make this clear, i have no idea how this all works and i don't care either,i just want it to work.

The problem with this is i play on various sites and most of the time i make last minute bets on games in different sports and the transactions have to be almost instant and be confirmed before the bets are being payed out to me again.

Most sites credit the btc after just 1 confirmation which by the looks of it is going to take hours again with almost 45.000 waiting transactions in the mempool. It happened before and it's happening again and it's time for me to say goodbye to bitcoin.

Any other people feeling the same like me who are tired of these slow confirmation like today?

The users want fast confirmations and low fees.  Blockstream controlled Core devs don't care what you want.  They're going to scale Bitcoin according to their own roadmap, and if you don't like, tough shit.

Any questions?

If they did not care what users want, why then did they code SegWit and the Lightning Network? You cannot blame Core or BU for "slow confirmation" times. If you want to blame someone, you would have to find out who is behind these spam attacks and also what miners are doing to resolve the matter. < mining selectively to make it worst, so that they can push up the fees are not helping at all >

You were a bit too quick on the trigger to blame Core again. ^grrrrrrr^

[hajimasan]

Being a very active gambler i was usually pretty satisfied with btc. The stakes are higher then other sportsbook sites and i like the fact that i don't need any personal information. Well this all changed during recent events with the so called mempool. Just to make this clear, i have no idea how this all works and i don't care either,i just want it to work.

The problem with this is i play on various sites and most of the time i make last minute bets on games in different sports and the transactions have to be almost instant and be confirmed before the bets are being payed out to me again.

Most sites credit the btc after just 1 confirmation which by the looks of it is going to take hours again with almost 45.000 waiting transactions in the mempool. It happened before and it's happening again and it's time for me to say goodbye to bitcoin.

Any other people feeling the same like me who are tired of these slow confirmation like today?

If you can pay high fee then you will surely not face any types of problem with your bitcoin transaction confirm .
since it is a bitter truth that we can make a big fee to pay but still we have another options to make Gambling without the transaction got confirmed .
I tried once Gambling at Cloudbet.com but my confirmation goes freez for two days but  a good thing that happened with me That the amount of bitcoin that I made deposit got credited in the account after half hour .
So here I don't feel that you need to leave bitcoin .

[Amph]

Any other people feeling the same like me who are tired of these slow confirmation like today?

Pay a better transaction fee, get faster confirmation. Problem solved.

if he play on various site and need to make many transaction, can result in his profit getting killed, not really a great suggestion, we can't always say that the problem lie in the user not paying more

because paying more is actually why we are paying so much for each transaction, this is the wrong approach, everyone should pay less to diminish the average tx fee over time

[Pursuer]

Being a very active gambler i was usually pretty satisfied with btc. The stakes are higher then other sportsbook sites and i like the fact that i don't need any personal information. Well this all changed during recent events with the so called mempool. Just to make this clear, i have no idea how this all works and i don't care either,i just want it to work.

The problem with this is i play on various sites and most of the time i make last minute bets on games in different sports and the transactions have to be almost instant and be confirmed before the bets are being payed out to me again.

Most sites credit the btc after just 1 confirmation which by the looks of it is going to take hours again with almost 45.000 waiting transactions in the mempool. It happened before and it's happening again and it's time for me to say goodbye to bitcoin.

Any other people feeling the same like me who are tired of these slow confirmation like today?

what you say is a bit contradictory.
if you want the privacy and other things that using bitcoin offers you then you wouldn't have said what you just said.
then if you are gambling and are in fact good at it, paying $0.41 is not really something that you even consider "high" or big enough for you to create a topic and talk about "leaving bitcoin"!

also you keep repeating "I am not tech savvy"! you don't need to be. just use a proper wallet that suggests fees properly. bitcoin core as a full verifying wallet and Electrum as an SPV wallet and blockchain.info as a web wallet do this properly. you don't have to know anything, they suggest best fees in a very newbie friendly GUI and you just click send.
I use Electrum so I am talking with 100% confidence that the fee it suggests as high (currently ~200 s/b or ~0.0004BTC for a normal tx equal to ~41 cents) is a good fee.

edit

if he play on various site and need to make many transaction, can result in his profit getting killed, not really a great suggestion, we can't always say that the problem lie in the user not paying more

if 40-50 cents per tx (per bet) is killing his profit then maybe it is best he stops gambling.

p.s we all know about the problem and the spam attack and the increasing fee and the fee war but there is no need to make a new account just to say "this was my last btc transaction" and make more drama in this board as you can see from all the previous comments.