Alt shilling increase when Bitcoin is under attack

[Kprawn]

Have you noticed how the shilling for certain Alt coins increase, with every "attack" on Bitcoin over the years? Someone has found the perfect

method to make a lot of money out of these attacks. It is subtle, but it is there.... So the theory is.... Buy a certain Alt coin and then introduce

some threat to Bitcoin and start shilling for a Alt coin..... The price of BTC goes down and the price of the Alt coins goes up. { depending on what

coin is being shilled }

The people who bought cheap Alt coins before the shilling started... starts to sell slowly at the peak and start to buy cheaper Bitcoins again.

Rinse & repeat with different Alt coins. 

Can someone draw the Alt coin stats for the different time periods when these attacks occurred?

[HabBear]

I believe there is a correlation but I don't agree with your causation. I don't think alt coin holders are creating attacks. The reason? Because we never hear about the the bad news for bitcoin immediately before the drop. There's a drop in bitcoin and then the people speculate why and some of that speculation is always about which alt coin has increased. I think the drop happens, people get out and immediately put their money into another coin...so as to never have it idle or in fiat.

Maybe I'm wrong. Do you have any real examples to prove your point?

[franky1]

core cry when the price moves up and down and try making it sound important
meanwhile exchange move from $935 ⇘ $933 by a user with just $302(324mbtc)
meanwhile exchange move from $933 ⇗ $935 by a user with just $50(54mbtc)

(note trades measured in mBTC (0.001btc)

less than $302(324mbtc) to drop the price from $935 to $933⇘
yep $302 to make the market cap change by $32,470,200.00

then ~$50(54mbtc) to ramp the price from $933 to $935⇗
yep $50 to make the market cap change by 32,470,200.00

price movements are not a sign of any "community consensus".. but due to low funds being used and also the high increments per orderline causing the volatility($1 gap per increment)... making it easy to make the market volatile without needing large community/whales

[Kprawn]

I believe there is a correlation but I don't agree with your causation. I don't think alt coin holders are creating attacks. The reason? Because we never hear about the the bad news for bitcoin immediately before the drop. There's a drop in bitcoin and then the people speculate why and some of that speculation is always about which alt coin has increased. I think the drop happens, people get out and immediately put their money into another coin...so as to never have it idle or in fiat.

Maybe I'm wrong. Do you have any real examples to prove your point?

Nope this is just a casual observation over the years. The spike in the Alt coins might just be people hedging their investments in calm waters,

when things are rough on the BTC side, but the shilling seems to increase during these times. People are not just hedging, they are hunting

quick profits with every "attack" and then return back to Bitcoin. We will see this again after this "BU attack" has passed.  

Someone has definitely seen this pattern and they are cashing in on the opportunity to make some extra profit.  

[BrewMaster]

apparently that strategy works for these shitcoins, they have no basis to increase their demand other than spamvertising with constant spamming the boards.

we all have to learn to read between the lines as its said.
whenever the altcoin shilling starts that means an altcoin pump has begun and when the shilling goes to the highest levels that means the pumpers are getting desperate and that is a good sign for us to exit their markets by dumping before the pumper shills dump themselves.

[OneUnderBridge]

I don't think that the migration from bitcoin to the altcoins, and vice versa, is a collusive effort. It's a natural event that can be logically evaluated from a game theory perspective. Yes, there may be a certain amount of "shilling" a certain project based on the circumstances under debate, but that's natural.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Haven't exactly noticed a pattern, but I've definitely noticed there's more 'shilling' (your term) of shitcoins lately.  I'm almost ready to put the whole altcoin section on ignore for a while.  There's just too many garbage threads.

[HabBear]

Any previous examples that look suspicous to you?

If it's just seeking the safety of an alt coin, there's nothing suspicious going on, no attack based on the premise that one person or a group of people just want to pump an alt coin. Obviously the BU attack isn't based (technically) on an alt coin pump.

I believe there is a correlation but I don't agree with your causation. I don't think alt coin holders are creating attacks. The reason? Because we never hear about the the bad news for bitcoin immediately before the drop. There's a drop in bitcoin and then the people speculate why and some of that speculation is always about which alt coin has increased. I think the drop happens, people get out and immediately put their money into another coin...so as to never have it idle or in fiat.

Maybe I'm wrong. Do you have any real examples to prove your point?

Nope this is just a casual observation over the years. The spike in the Alt coins might just be people hedging their investments in calm waters,

when things are rough on the BTC side, but the shilling seems to increase during these times. People are not just hedging, they are hunting

quick profits with every "attack" and then return back to Bitcoin. We will see this again after this "BU attack" has passed.  

Someone has definitely seen this pattern and they are cashing in on the opportunity to make some extra profit.  

Which coins are "shit"?

Haven't exactly noticed a pattern, but I've definitely noticed there's more 'shilling' (your term) of shitcoins lately.  I'm almost ready to put the whole altcoin section on ignore for a while.  There's just too many garbage threads.

[Chris!]

Haven't exactly noticed a pattern, but I've definitely noticed there's more 'shilling' (your term) of shitcoins lately.  I'm almost ready to put the whole altcoin section on ignore for a while.  There's just too many garbage threads.

You haven't ignored the whole altcoin section of the forum yet?! I did it years ago and now I look like this:

[Dart18]

But that is still not perfect right? You could be wrong at some point and lose money.

[manselr]

Smart whales are using the Buggy Unlimited FUD to cause massive pumps in the market. Who will be the next coin to go %1000+? I dont know but I sure hope im holding some of that shit.

[OneUnderBridge]

Smart whales are using the Buggy Unlimited FUD to cause massive pumps in the market. Who will be the next coin to go %1000+? I dont know but I sure hope im holding some of that shit.

^^^^^ 
Me too!  And, I probably am holding some of that dung-da-dung!

[Yakamoto]

I believe there is a correlation but I don't agree with your causation. I don't think alt coin holders are creating attacks. The reason? Because we never hear about the the bad news for bitcoin immediately before the drop. There's a drop in bitcoin and then the people speculate why and some of that speculation is always about which alt coin has increased. I think the drop happens, people get out and immediately put their money into another coin...so as to never have it idle or in fiat.

Maybe I'm wrong. Do you have any real examples to prove your point?

The thing is, it is incredibly difficult to prove something like this beyond showing a correlation between changes in Bitcoin's value and an uptick in the amount of coins that are being shilled during the downturn period. On some other websites, shilling programs are made known through leaked documents or connections between people that tie in together. Something like Bitcointalk doesn't have networks being formed against it, and most of the time generic alt holders will attack to try and pump their investment.

There is a high chance that shills show up, but it's next to completely unprovable beyond correlations.

[unamis76]

This has definitely happen at some points in history. It happened with LTC and now with ETH, when there's something less good with BTC people tend to start talking about other coins... It's not something you can just show a post and prove it exists. It's something generalised and that is somehow discreet. Lauda posted an interesting thread a while back that has a small paragraph regarding this.

[SONG GEET]

This days, there is no need to have any attack on bitcoin network to create panic on market. Just start fuding about hard fork and network split, many people will start selling their bitcoin immediately being panic.

Short alt during bitcoin pump like right now.
Long alt when bitcoin price will be at peak/ATH or when there is fud/attack on bitcoin network.

[Sundark]

Do you have any particular examples of that behavior? Shilling for altcoins is as old as altcoin scene, it won't change nor stop.
I wouldn't link this as something used to disrupt bitcoin network, most altcoins communities are not even that prominent to pull off something of this caliber.

[ebliever]

Not everything is a conspiracy. In case you haven't noticed, there has been a very broad-based rise in the entire altcoin market. Some more than others, but scores if not hundreds of coins have grown as bitcoin has deflated since the ETF rejection March 10. (For example, I take note of the market cap of the 100th coin on Coinmarketcap, which gives me a measure of overall altcoin performance. It's almost doubled in that timeframe.)

Let's say I have a position in Altcoin A. If I FUD myself silly against bitcoin, how do I know the response will be to invest in Altcoin A? Why not Altcoins B, C, D... through ZZZ?  Why wouldn't people just exit crypto for fiat entirely?

I hear a lot of moaning and groaning and conspiracy-theorizing around here that seems to regard any support for alts as illegitimate, and any negative mention of bitcoin's prospects as likewise illegitimate. But trying to shut up dissent isn't going to fix any of bitcoin's problems. You can slow down an outbound migration by keeping newbies in the dark for a little while, but it's all just a delaying action if you aren't fixing the issues.

So I would suggest focusing on making the positive case for bitcoin and trying to be constructive as regards the issues. Bitcoin is still the market leader. It still has tremendous price support. Even if nothing is done the transaction bottleneck only throttles bitcoin, it cannot kill it. A future as a niche vehicle for "digital gold" is still a tremendously valuable proposition, and one that can survive a high fee environment. (If some way out of the Core/BU morass can be found that provides offchain solutions ahead of market adoption of the same within Ethereum and so forth, and if simple privacy tools cut into the edge coins like Dash and Monero and ZEC have, so much the better.)

[K128kevin2]

Which coins are "shit"?

Most of them. A lot of them bring nothing new or interesting to the table and exist solely to make their creators a quick buck.

[HabBear]

Which coins are "shit"?

Most of them. A lot of them bring nothing new or interesting to the table and exist solely to make their creators a quick buck.

Ok, so which precious few are solid? Come on...let's add some detail to this conversation.


Oh and to Kprawn...just saw this news: Bitcoin price dives after SEC rejects plans for ETF! Another behind-the-scenes scheme for someone leveraged heavily on some alt coin?

http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-dives-after-sec-rejects-plans-for-etf-2017-3

[ErdosnCoffee]

I don't think there is any "global conspiracy"  . Whales make money off of impacting the market with buy/sell walls, what you're described is decentralized and done by unsophisticated groups of pumpers and dumpers taking advantage of the current situation.

[iamnotback]

Not everything is a conspiracy. In case you haven't noticed, there has been a very broad-based rise in the entire altcoin market.

Yeah because the % of the total crypto marketcap in Bitcoin dropped precipitously from the 80s to the 60s.

Although it will bounce back somewhat if the Scalepocalypse crisis is ever resolved (and it won't be any time soon!), this poll will tell you (and even explain to you why if you bother to read it) that something has fundamentally changed.

You Bitcoin maximalists are going to become minority owners of the crypto and blockchain ecosystem. Lol.  

[SaShiRaJaVu]

I believe there is a correlation but I don't agree with your causation. I don't think alt coin holders are creating attacks. The reason? Because we never hear about the the bad news for bitcoin immediately before the drop. There's a drop in bitcoin and then the people speculate why and some of that speculation is always about which alt coin has increased. I think the drop happens, people get out and immediately put their money into another coin...so as to never have it idle or in fiat.

Maybe I'm wrong. Do you have any real examples to prove your point?

Not everyone who is trading Alt coins is creating the attack but how about a certain few whales who wanted to make some major profit ,yes the news we hear can be speculated only after a drop and no one could predict the exact reason for any drop and if a whale wanted to create a fud scene he can very well create the illusion that there are major sell offs which could trigger a sell off ,if you look at yesterday,the coins name bitcoinplus and bitcoindark had a huge rally ,it is an example what OP is saying,fud news about the split and all the coins named bit is going up as .

[freedomno1]

Nope this is just a casual observation over the years. The spike in the Alt coins might just be people hedging their investments in calm waters,

when things are rough on the BTC side, but the shilling seems to increase during these times. People are not just hedging, they are hunting

quick profits with every "attack" and then return back to Bitcoin. We will see this again after this "BU attack" has passed.  

Someone has definitely seen this pattern and they are cashing in on the opportunity to make some extra profit.  

Correct there is always profit to be made in diversifying the basket when their is turbulence in Bitcoin or shorting Bitcoin in the period.
The reason alts rise during insecurity is simply put because their are people who want to hedge and the demand rises irrationally until price correction sets in again.
Whenever we see volatility of course that leads to more shilling as money is to be made attracting people to one coin over another 
Just like the Reddit mod for Bitcoin the other day on his ethereum hedge etc. 

[iamnotback]

Not everything is a conspiracy. In case you haven't noticed, there has been a very broad-based rise in the entire altcoin market.

Yeah because the % of the total crypto marketcap in Bitcoin dropped precipitously from the 80s to the 60s.

Although it will bounce back somewhat if the Scalepocalypse crisis is ever resolved (and it won't be any time soon!), this poll will tell you (and even explain to you why if you bother to read it) that something has fundamentally changed.

You Bitcoin maximalists are going to become minority owners of the crypto and blockchain ecosystem. Lol.  

What this BU vs. Core fuckup did was cause many users which had never installed an altcoin wallet to do so.

BU opened the floodgates to altcoin dominance. Now once these guys get a taste of the freedom-of-choice and higher ROI from altcoins, they won't be coming back. They'll be converting more and more BTC to alts over time.

BU slayed Bitcoin. Or Core did. Depending who you want to blame for the Scalepocalypse.

Well I think Bitcoin will come back up and still $2000+ eventually, but the long-term outlook for Bitcoin has become less certain.

[pooya87]

many users which had never installed an altcoin wallet to do so.

this is funny, that you think users have installed any altcoin wallet.
people who are complaining about sync time and the storage problem to run a bitcoin wallet (full node) are not going to run a wallet (full node) of an altcoin which they plan on dumping.
why do you think when exchanges like cryptsy go down they take a lot of victims and lots of altcoins lost.

people keep altcoins on exchanges to be able to dump them as fast as they bought them.

[Kakmakr]

If you are too dumb to capitalize on this phenomenon, you should not be into Crypto currencies. I do not only invest in Bitcoin, but rather into Crypto currencies. If I see the hype wave growing, I start buying and I ride it till it lost all power. I have made a lot of money watching this phenomenon and timing it perfectly.

There will always be a bunch of people who will run to Alt coins, when Bitcoin is in trouble and you will need to watch the market and be invested in these Alt coins to collect when it is raining money. ^smile^

[Rinder]

What really happens will remain a secret, its normal traders left bitcoin, dump their bitcoins and join the pump over others altcoins, isnt a secret if price of bitcoin drops it means usually some altcoin is being pumped, or some bad news that made investors to give a try into others altcoins. Whales does like the bumps and much more the dumps since they able to make money on the two sides.

[Slark]

BU slayed Bitcoin. Or Core did. Depending who you want to blame for the Scalepocalypse.

Well I think Bitcoin will come back up and still $2000+ eventually, but the long-term outlook for Bitcoin has become less certain.

Core offered their solution for bitcoin's problem, we can blame miners - not community for not accepting it (number of nodes speak for itself).
BU proposal linked to emergent consensus is nothing more than opening gate for future manipulation.

People who turned their heads away from the bitcoin are nothing more that whimsical kids looking for distraction and fast money hungry speculators.
 

[BTCLovingDude]

this is a very good point and i have been saying the same thing for ages

the thing to remember is that all these coins have been around for a long time, some of them even for many years and absolutely nothing has changed about them. even one bit. then in all this time you never hear anything about any of them, not even a single comment.

then their pump starts.

after that you keep hearing how good they are! if they were good, they were good all this time, why nobody said anything then.

then to complete the cycle of the pumping, after the dump happens and they are satisfied with their profit, you again don't hear anything about any of the coins again up until the next pump!!!

[dinofelis]

BU slayed Bitcoin. Or Core did. Depending who you want to blame for the Scalepocalypse.

Well I think Bitcoin will come back up and still $2000+ eventually, but the long-term outlook for Bitcoin has become less certain.

Core offered their solution for bitcoin's problem, we can blame miners - not community for not accepting it (number of nodes speak for itself).

I see this differently.  Bitcoin has the merit of being the first mover, but has also the oldest block chain tech.  It contains several fundamental "flaws" or "features" if you want, which make that bitcoin cannot be what it is propagandized to be.  It is/was a worthy proposal, and its current success shows how valuable these initial ideas were.  

The oldest alt coins devs saw some of these problems almost immediately: litecoin saw the danger of ASICS and industrial mining (even though its Scrypt algorithm didn't survive either ASICS - but at least one understood this flaw in bitcoin).  Peercoin realized the fundamental problems with PoW all together.  It is amazing how well peercoin is designed as compared with bitcoin, btw even though it gave up on decentralized ultimate consensus.   DASH realized the problem with transparent ledgers and the need for fungibility and privacy, but this wasn't really solved until cryptonote came out, originally with bytecoin, and which is right now done with Monero, who also solved the limited block size issue and the fee instability issue in a certain way.  
Ethereum brought crypto to a whole other level, by allowing whole applications to run on top of it.

None of these coins are problem-free themselves, but they are all superior to bitcoin's system, individually.  Some are damaged for ever by economic scams, but that doesn't mean that their technologies didn't all tackle serious flaws in bitcoin's system: PoW, asic mining, slow difficulty adaption, block reward halvings, limited blocks, transparent chain and traceable transaction history, ...

Bitcoin is what it is, with all of its design errors, but with its brand name of first mover.  Bitcoin is designed to protect itself from change.  This is something it does amazingly well, but this is also due to the uniqueness of its brand name, and the religious devotion that its users have towards this brand - somewhat like Apple customers.  This is its most important value proposition: its brand name.  

Core wanted to abuse an obvious design error, the block limit to 1 MB, to leverage it into a radical change: segwit.  They didn't want to solve an easy issue (lifting the block limit or bringing it to a high value), in order to force bitcoin's community to accept a radical transformation of bitcoin.  Bitcoin's immutability mechanism responded by introducing sufficient variants to that idea so that consensus over this radical change could not be found.   As such, Core lost its centralized power over bitcoin by overplaying its hand.

[judeafante]

You are right,this speculation greatly benefit altcoins especially those in the top 10,people thought that bitcoin will go down and another altcoin is poised to take over which are just wishful thinking..

[beerlover]

Which coins are "shit"?

Most of them. A lot of them bring nothing new or interesting to the table and exist solely to make their creators a quick buck.

Quite a handful of them claim to have faster transactions than bitcoin and a more developed core which makes them more secure but their problem is that they always were trying to catch up to bitcoin and they didn’t make an effort on promoting them in some sites so can people can actually spend the coins that they earn.

[K128kevin2]

Quite a handful of them claim to have faster transactions than bitcoin

They lack the volume of Bitcoin though. If they had the same amount of spam they'd have delayed transactions too.

[OneUnderBridge]

Which coins are "shit"?

Most of them. A lot of them bring nothing new or interesting to the table and exist solely to make their creators a quick buck.

Quite a handful of them claim to have faster transactions than bitcoin and a more developed core which makes them more secure but their problem is that they always were trying to catch up to bitcoin and they didn’t make an effort on promoting them in some sites so can people can actually spend the coins that they earn.

Agree. Those who're knowledgeable don't get caught up in those scamcoins. They are quite a few good alts. Some are simple and don't bring anything new to the table but they have decent communities. Those which do attract communities of knowledgeable people bring added value to their networks by virtue of their community's contributions.

[andron8383]

Have you noticed how the shilling for certain Alt coins increase, with every "attack" on Bitcoin over the years? Someone has found the perfect

method to make a lot of money out of these attacks. It is subtle, but it is there.... So the theory is.... Buy a certain Alt coin and then introduce

some threat to Bitcoin and start shilling for a Alt coin..... The price of BTC goes down and the price of the Alt coins goes up. { depending on what

coin is being shilled }

The people who bought cheap Alt coins before the shilling started... starts to sell slowly at the peak and start to buy cheaper Bitcoins again.

Rinse & repeat with different Alt coins. 

Can someone draw the Alt coin stats for the different time periods when these attacks occurred?

Nothing more like Roger that many others like to dump on followers their coin:
Bitcoin Jesus promote his alts. People give to MUCH credibility to those ALT pumpers.
Now slowly we will see urn back to BTC period.
That guy will have nice profits while others will fill BAGs forever.

[andron8383]

***
Well I think Bitcoin will come back up and still $2000+ eventually, but the long-term outlook for Bitcoin has become less certain.

Once ETH miners will earn more $$$ than BTC miners they will start thinkng about changes.
Now BTC:ETH is like 1: 0.8 in $ earnings (month ago was 1: 0.7) so new 1$ to BTC 0.7 to ETH
When ETH will go to POS or super-node POS it will have 2x-10x BTC market cap easy with low inflation like 1%


over time BTC will lose market because BTC can't rise like 10x in year anymore but those small P&D can but
you can with shitcoin go into action like SDC:
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/shadowcash/
delisted from Polo and from 6$ pump went into 0.28$ in month
GUYS THIS IS -95% IN MONTH

[abbyd]

Buy a certain Alt coin and then introduce some threat to Bitcoin and start shilling for a Alt coin..... The price of BTC goes down and the price of the Alt coins goes up. { depending on what coin is being shilled }

The only correlation that is CLEAR is that bitcoin has lost a TON of crypto market share in 2017. The reason is obvious - long confirmation times caused by a full blockchain and bloated mempool.

Several altcoins are showing promise technically as well. For example, Monero and Dash have better anonymity than Bitcoin. The markets have shown their support for this with higher prices. Bitcoin is going downhill technically - Segwit arguments against reality have been a waste of time and there is still no blocksize increase. The community deadlock has pushed the money elsewhere.