Oh shit, it's a draw - Blockstream wins

[RawDog]

OK - we are now stuck on 36.8% and a bit less than that for Core.  So, there will be no fork and no change.  Blockstream wins. 

We need to make the rules such that the parties that don't vote, don't count.  It will be very hard to get over 50% when so many miners are not indicating SegWit or BU.  When throwing away the non-voters, we are presently at >51% for BU.  Enough for a fork today.

[1714807130]

1714807130

[1714807130]

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[kiklo]

OK - we are now stuck on 36.8% and a bit less than that for Core.  So, there will be no fork and no change.  Blockstream wins. 

We need to make the rules such that the parties that don't vote, don't count.  It will be very hard to get over 50% when so many miners are not indicating SegWit or BU.  When throwing away the non-voters, we are presently at >51% for BU.  Enough for a fork today.

Hmm,
you can't disregard the non voters, if BTU tries to fork while they are under 55%,
Core will overwrite your asses so quick it will make your head swim,
because they will have their 30% and the NonVoters 27.7% for a total of 57.7 % more than enough to control the chain.

Sorry you need to convince BW pool to join you , that would add ~5% and then you only need 7 to 10% of the nonvoters to join BTU to attempt a fork.
Before that and the BTU Fork will be the weaker chain.
You are going to have to wait , if Core pushes a Segwit hard fork, then you should break away right before it activates , so BTU should use a hard coded checkpoint to block core forever if that is how everything plays out.

 

[Viscount]

You forgot    efficient remedy against malicious anti-btc miners and other Vermins

Or maybe Pos? but we don't want to harm Bitfury and other honest miners. But if it's needed,  Bitcoin is above all, and Bitfury surely understand it

[kiklo]

You forgot    efficient remedy against malicious anti-btc miners and other Vermins
Or maybe Pos? but we don't want to harm Bitfury and other honest miners. But if it's needed,  Bitcoin is above all, and Bitfury surely understand it

Take your best shot @PoS,
We could always use a good laugh.

Rational people see BTC as a product , you guys drinking that bug spray see it as a religion.

Enjoy your cult, but it is only a product not a deity and as such, subject to the laws of economics.

Which if the transaction problems are not fixed shortly will crack your deity up side the head.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeHDnF7MU90


 

[lurker10]

You forgot    efficient remedy against malicious anti-btc miners and other Vermins

First write a new Bitcoin whitepaper.
In the original Bitcoin whitepaper, Bitcoin is a consensus system, consensus is determined by miners. Would you like to change original Bitcoin to a new kind of Bitcoin where miners do not enforce consensus? Go ahead. I am not saying it's wrong, but it will not be original Bitcoin.

Bitcoin maximalists have run around for years with the idea that POW as the only system that can work. It's ironic that they now want to reject the very core of their beliefs with UASF and such ideas.

[AngryDwarf]

As much as I laughed at the image provided by Viscount:

Bitcoin core a family company = a privatised entity
Helping you keep bitcoin decentralised = Helping us keep bitcoin protocol development centralised.

UASF, the crowbar that breaks open the consensus mechanism through brute force.

[XbladeX]

***
Bitcoin maximalists have run around for years with the idea that POW as the only system that can work.
***

hmm there a is pleanty POS systems that works right now maybe they are not popular but they works for sure.
And NONE has been able to make Nothing at stake attack while POW 51% forks were common.
Conclusion is that POS is much more safe system.

[Xester]

OK - we are now stuck on 36.8% and a bit less than that for Core.  So, there will be no fork and no change.  Blockstream wins. 

We need to make the rules such that the parties that don't vote, don't count.  It will be very hard to get over 50% when so many miners are not indicating SegWit or BU.  When throwing away the non-voters, we are presently at >51% for BU.  Enough for a fork today.

It is hard but let us just face that fact that there are nothing more to do that can change the situation. Even if we make many comments on this forum still they will not give time to read it nor change their minds. So let us just accept that fact and hope the upcoming UASF can do something about the situations that we are facing right now. Let us just hope that blockstream will do something fast on our blocksize problems.

[XbladeX]

OK - we are now stuck on 36.8% and a bit less than that for Core.  So, there will be no fork and no change.  Blockstream wins.  

We need to make the rules such that the parties that don't vote, don't count.  It will be very hard to get over 50% when so many miners are not indicating SegWit or BU.  When throwing away the non-voters, we are presently at >51% for BU.  Enough for a fork today.

It is hard but let us just face that fact that there are nothing more to do that can change the situation. Even if we make many comments on this forum still they will not give time to read it nor change their minds. So let us just accept that fact and hope the upcoming UASF can do something about the situations that we are facing right now. Let us just hope that blockstream will do something fast on our blocksize problems.

I think that UASF can force some changes : )
If we start UASF i will setup my raspberry PI and join republic forces aganist dark side
better is act than wait to death

With current situation only winner is ETH (Dash was just pump) - Eth is rising and chopping BTC

[Qartada]

I agree, I don't support BU but we need to ignore non-voters because Bitcoin really needs to move forward and in elections you don't just not vote expecting for the old candidate to stay in forever.

[Kakmakr]

I agree, I don't support BU but we need to ignore non-voters because Bitcoin really needs to move forward and in elections you don't just not vote expecting for the old candidate to stay in forever.

In elections non-voters show their vote by not voting and in this case these non-voters are saying that they want no change. They see the evil behind both or they want to wash their hands in future, when the shit hits the fan. Nobody can blame them if any of the two implementations fails. < The coward approach to this issue >

I would rather blame the non-voters if their vote would have made a difference and it did not, if the winner fails in the future. ^grrrrrrrr^

[unamis76]

In elections non-voters show their vote by not voting and in this case these non-voters are saying that they want no change. They see the evil behind both or they want to wash their hands in future, when the shit hits the fan. Nobody can blame them if any of the two implementations fails. < The coward approach to this issue >

I would rather blame the non-voters if their vote would have made a difference and it did not, if the winner fails in the future. ^grrrrrrrr^

This is pretty much what I was thinking while reading the thread. Although ignoring non-voters would get us closer to deciding, that's something you simply cannot do. It is as legitimate as blacklisting transactions or flagging "older" nodes, so to speak, or any other kind of discrimination.

Non voters are saying that they either want no change or that they believe no change currently in the works is what they believe Bitcoin requires at the moment.

If they don't vote because they don't care/want to wash their hands, well... They're not doing any good to themselves and others in general.

[K128kevin2]

OK - we are now stuck on 36.8% and a bit less than that for Core.  So, there will be no fork and no change.  Blockstream wins.  

We need to make the rules such that the parties that don't vote, don't count.  It will be very hard to get over 50% when so many miners are not indicating SegWit or BU.  When throwing away the non-voters, we are presently at >51% for BU.  Enough for a fork today.

It is hard but let us just face that fact that there are nothing more to do that can change the situation. Even if we make many comments on this forum still they will not give time to read it nor change their minds. So let us just accept that fact and hope the upcoming UASF can do something about the situations that we are facing right now. Let us just hope that blockstream will do something fast on our blocksize problems.

I think that UASF can force some changes : )
If we start UASF i will setup my raspberry PI and join republic forces aganist dark side
better is act than wait to death

With current situation only winner is ETH (Dash was just pump) - Eth is rising and chopping BTC

There's a fork of core with code for the UASF that you can run on your Pi. Also I think that ETH is going to crash with no survivors

[FlightyPouch]

I think the panic now has subsided, and Bitcoin Unlimited is no more, for now. I have reads articles and they said that this is the second time that hard forking failed, but it is not really surprising because there are only a few that cares about Bitcoin Unlimited, and they are the stupid ones, I think there will be no hard forking again for a very long time, I think the solution for the long confirmations and large fees are the only problems now.

[alani123]

Having >51% miner support for BTU wouldn't mean that a potential fork even with such support would end up being successful in the long run. Miner support doesn't equal market support, so the crypto economy would only get around using the chain with the greatest long term volumes. In my opinion, I don't think that any potential bitcoin fork outside of consensus would ever have the potential to do this.

[Jerean]

Blockstream didn't win, SW will not active if they don't increase the block size. without SW, thier LN
can't work.

[Bonnyi]

Blockstream won't win yet until BU plan to hardfork or SW plan to use UASF, but i agree that non-voting party shouldn't be counted in few condition where update is needed.
But, i'm sure more bitcoiner will support SegWit even if hard fork happen in future.

Also, i wonder if we can accept SW but refuse to support LN

I don't think BU will plan to hardfork if they don't get enough support even they have majority hash rate. The HF should be carefully prepared.

[stdset]

First write a new Bitcoin whitepaper.

So you think you understand the whitepaper well enough to use your knowledge in the argument. Then how do you think is it even possible that some changes to the protocol could be enforced despite of miners will? How do you think ETC survived despite having much less support from miners than ETH? Is the design flawed? Do multiple implementations differ from the design? Or is your understanding incomplete?

[XbladeX]

***
So you think you understand the whitepaper well enough to use your knowledge in the argument. Then how do you think is it even possible that some changes to the protocol could be enforced despite of miners will? How do you think ETC survived despite having much less support from miners than ETH? Is the design flawed? Do multiple implementations differ from the design? Or is your understanding incomplete?

I agree even BTC will be attacked by BTU it will live and CHina miners will be that BAD guy in bar.
I don't see people rushing for China coin world wide : ) slowly i hate those chinese miners.
Mybe ETH will kick them out of work who knows

[Xester]

OK - we are now stuck on 36.8% and a bit less than that for Core.  So, there will be no fork and no change.  Blockstream wins.  

We need to make the rules such that the parties that don't vote, don't count.  It will be very hard to get over 50% when so many miners are not indicating SegWit or BU.  When throwing away the non-voters, we are presently at >51% for BU.  Enough for a fork today.

It is hard but let us just face that fact that there are nothing more to do that can change the situation. Even if we make many comments on this forum still they will not give time to read it nor change their minds. So let us just accept that fact and hope the upcoming UASF can do something about the situations that we are facing right now. Let us just hope that blockstream will do something fast on our blocksize problems.

I think that UASF can force some changes : )
If we start UASF i will setup my raspberry PI and join republic forces aganist dark side
better is act than wait to death

With current situation only winner is ETH (Dash was just pump) - Eth is rising and chopping BTC

That is our last hope for bitcoin and that is to support UASF. If we all unite our forces and support UASF then we can strenghten our cause for a revolution against the miners. If we are all united the miners will have no choice but to give up their power and submit to what we want. Hope UASF will be implemented sooner so that the trust of people to bitcoin will be alive again.