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Author Topic: Is Jihan Wu cheating other miners with exploit that could be fixed with Segwit?  (Read 755 times)
andyatcrux
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April 06, 2017, 12:19:01 AM
 #1

Not sure how much of a "bomb" this is yet, but it looks like it could prove significant. Looking for people's thoughts on this. Hopefully civil discussion.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/63p9m0/g_maxwell_just_dropped_a_bomb_on_the_bitcoindevs/


https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-April/013996.html
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andyatcrux
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April 06, 2017, 12:29:09 AM
 #2

Looks like someone created a topic with the same basis. I will lock my thread if it becomes redundant.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1857162.0
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April 06, 2017, 12:31:40 AM
 #3

Well, it could be argued that it's pure 'free market' and any edge out there is going to grabbed and wrung dry. It's up to the developers to plug the holes, if it's actually definable as a hole.

It also explains a vast amount. I find it reassuring that the BU stuff was already comprehensively shot down before this came to light, but this makes it a whole lot clearer where it was coming from.

So what happens next?

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April 06, 2017, 12:55:33 AM
 #4

Everyone who's anyone is blowing up twitter with this news in the last hour. Surprised Bitcointalk is so sleepy on this news. Usually ahead of the curve here.

(edit: well starting too blow up is a better description)
Killerpotleaf
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April 06, 2017, 01:05:07 AM
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Well, it could be argued that it's pure 'free market' and any edge out there is going to grabbed and wrung dry. It's up to the developers to plug the holes, if it's actually definable as a hole.

agreed, without a full understanding of this "attack" this is my gut reaction.
i mean can't all other miner do the same "attack", is this really an "attack" or simply a more effective way of minning.
maybe this is as much of an attack as mining with an ASIC instead of  GPU was.

Altho... seeing how segwit inadvertently fixes this "issue" its make it pretty clear why segwit hasn't been adopted yet.
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April 06, 2017, 01:09:01 AM
 #6

It was done in way to stay hidden for as long as possible. They inevitably knew it would be. The patent stuff is gonna get a middle finger in china, they did steal someone elses work though.
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April 06, 2017, 01:21:36 AM
 #7

I thoroughly enjoy it when the truth comes to light, round of applause for G. Maxwell

Helping to create the world's first loving economy, not something based on fear or greed. Principles of love, abundance, consistency, automation, decentralisation, open source, economic multifunctionality. Scientific analysis will be uploaded to my site shortly for peer review.
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April 06, 2017, 01:52:53 AM
 #8

Well, it seems the missing puzzle pieces are falling into place.

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
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andyatcrux
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April 06, 2017, 01:56:41 AM
 #9

Mr. Szabo chimes in:

"Secret mining advantage is expected. The problem is incentive to oppose incompatible upgrades for secret reasons."

https://twitter.com/NickSzabo4/status/849800229696045058



https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/63otrp/gregory_maxwell_major_asic_manufacturer_is/dfw1ewe/?context=3
Killerpotleaf
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April 06, 2017, 02:09:19 AM
 #10

Mr. Szabo chimes in:

"Secret mining advantage is expected. The problem is incentive to oppose incompatible upgrades for secret reasons."

https://twitter.com/NickSzabo4/status/849800229696045058



https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/63otrp/gregory_maxwell_major_asic_manufacturer_is/dfw1ewe/?context=3

well its certainly not " secret reasons " anymore.

i find it odd...

 
Quote from: maxwell
BIP proposal: Inhibiting a covert attack on the   Bitcoin POW function
...
This proposal does not[block non-covert boosting]because it is so easily detected that it could be blocked if
it becomes an issue in the future.


Quote from: maxwell
the proposed BIP does not block boosting
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April 06, 2017, 02:25:36 AM
 #11

So now we know the real reason the BU shills have been desperately fighting against Segwit (it kills their little secret patent-infringing  mining trick to run their competition out of business).

Wow. Just wow.

We really need to do something about mining centralization to make this sort of scheming impossible in the future. We can all laugh about BU now after our nerves are settled, but what if someone less clumsy and more astute than the Ver/Jihan team mounts a similar effort in the future and succeeds? I don't want to see Bitcoin under the control of a mining cartel.

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Ephesians 2:8-9
andyatcrux
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April 06, 2017, 02:25:49 AM
 #12

Now Andreas weighs in:

"The real issue with this ASICBOOST drama is the fact that it incentivizes bizarre Tx selection and resistance to block header changes"

https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/849803727686914048



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April 06, 2017, 02:30:57 AM
 #13

Question: As the fallout from this revelation settles and BU collapses, what are the implications for Segwit activation? It's been hard for me to imagine how SW could reach 95%, and now that we know why a good chunk of the miners are opposed, so long as they are in business it's apparent they will fight it to the death.

OTOH, they (or their H/W manufacturer) are guilty of patent infringement, so they may not be up and running for very long. So we might see the anti-SW faction literally evaporate rather quickly. Can anyone more informed comment on my speculation here as to the likely impact for SW implementation?

Luke 12:15-21

Ephesians 2:8-9
andyatcrux
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April 06, 2017, 02:35:39 AM
 #14

This does not fully address your question, but it seems like UASF is becoming more and more likely

Peter Todd:

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/849793891536691200
AgentofCoin
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April 06, 2017, 02:38:26 AM
 #15

...
OTOH, they (or their H/W manufacturer) are guilty of patent infringement, so they may not be up and running for very long. ...

My only comment is that it might be very hard if not impossible to enforce the
patent rights in China. The Chinese government is notorious for favoring their
own citizens who violate Western patents and sometimes penalizing non-Chinese
companies as a farce to strengthen their own companies.

But it could be possible to enforce in US and other Western courts and prevent
their US based or Western based corporations or mining pools from operating
in those areas. For example, if they were going to open an exchange in the US,
you could sue their parent company and have the exchanges assets frozen and
given to the western patent holder, which will cause their companies in the US
to go into bankruptcy.

Basically, you can not get them directly where they are located, so they would
need to get them on the violations in the EU and US courts. If they have foreign
banks accounts, they can be seized to pay for damages.

If their ASICBOOST Chips use the same mechanism as the western patents,
they can be held liable outside of China.

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
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Killerpotleaf
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April 06, 2017, 02:39:59 AM
 #16

you are running an illegal bitcoin minning optimization


Killerpotleaf
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April 06, 2017, 03:19:24 AM
 #17

i just love it when shit hits the fan like this.

the pure entertain value of holding some bitcoin is very real.
franky1
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April 06, 2017, 04:03:15 AM
 #18

another plausible question:
is Gmaxwell +BTCC cheating other miners with exploit to falsely increase the block count in segwits favour

secondly. if core stop being so snobby by wanting to force segwit through...
and actually ask themselves why is there any resistance. then the dvs may actually be smart and do something the community would love and adore.

avoiding consensus by going soft, setting deadlines, making treats, bribing users with false hopes of discounts leaves many people thinking why need to resort to such tactics instead of sticking to consensus.

if something is actually going to fulfill on its promises(segwit doesnt) without risking a tier network of core control. there would be no need to debate it.


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andyatcrux
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April 06, 2017, 04:53:10 AM
 #19

This is now a redundant thread. This one is about the same thing and is getting the bulk of the conversation:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1857162.0


Locking this thread now.
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