Thread re opened due to buyer accusing me of shipping an empty package.

[shadallion]

Done?

[1715318302]

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[TMAN]

Wow super cheap...

You won dude. PM incoming

[chronicsky]

wow thats cheap for lab

Congrats Shadallion

[isoneguy]

wow thats cheap for lab

Congrats Shadallion

Yeah, pretty sure I paid that much for just the opportunity to get one.

[TMAN]

that's what happens in an auction...

I wont be putting any more up for auction @ that price - they will be going away for a few years now..

[TMAN]

I have re opened this thread as the winner of this auction contacted me last night by PM stating..

"I assume you know this, but your package was empty.  Is it really worth stiffing people and having credibility ruined for a couple hundred bucks?"

this is a preposterous statement as this item was signed for 2 weeks ago. TNT reference 341727105

I asked for pictures and the buyer sent the below links, please zoom in on the 2nd picture and see how the edge has been carefully sliced open.

http://imgur.com/T5VV4qL

http://imgur.com/GxMu2KB

http://imgur.com/ - Edit - unintentional Doxing!!

http://imgur.com/KM9pWsC

I commented that it has been sliced and the user replied with the below.

"Where are you seeing that it was sliced down the side?   After I took the pics I cut it open.

It was just an empty envelope that was sealed with tape around all edges.  

I have been traveling and really I considered just not doing anything because I don't have much recourse here.  I didn't escrow and I just had to hope the object would be shipped in good faith.

It seems unlikely someone would cleverly open the package and reseal it, not even knowing what it was in it, or probably even recognize it for what it was when they did open it.

Can you send the evidence of the weighed package? "

so I stated that the edge had been sliced and stated that I would re open this thread and received the below answer.

" It was sealed when I took the picture.  It's not sliced.   There was no indication that the envelope had been opened up and the Kialara removed.  It just appeared to be a sealed, empty package.

Please do open up the thread. "

please also check the users post history and notice the nearly 3 year gap until they bid on my auction.

for now I wont add any more - I would like the communities input before I go any further.

thanks all - I welcome some comments.

 

[digicoinuser]

I'd recommend editing or removing the photo that essentially doxes the customer.  My 2 cents so far after quickly reviewing the post. 

[Hhampuz]

I have re opened this thread as the winner of this auction contacted me last night by PM stating..

"I assume you know this, but your package was empty.  Is it really worth stiffing people and having credibility ruined for a couple hundred bucks?"

this is a preposterous statement as this item was signed for 2 weeks ago. TNT reference 341727105

I asked for pictures and the buyer sent the below links, please zoom in on the 2nd picture and see how the edge has been carefully sliced open.

http://imgur.com/T5VV4qL

http://imgur.com/GxMu2KB

http://imgur.com/

http://imgur.com/KM9pWsC

I commented that it has been sliced and the user replied with the below.

"Where are you seeing that it was sliced down the side?   After I took the pics I cut it open.

It was just an empty envelope that was sealed with tape around all edges.  

I have been traveling and really I considered just not doing anything because I don't have much recourse here.  I didn't escrow and I just had to hope the object would be shipped in good faith.

It seems unlikely someone would cleverly open the package and reseal it, not even knowing what it was in it, or probably even recognize it for what it was when they did open it.

Can you send the evidence of the weighed package? "

so I stated that the edge had been sliced and stated that I would re open this thread and received the below answer.

" It was sealed when I took the picture.  It's not sliced.   There was no indication that the envelope had been opened up and the Kialara removed.  It just appeared to be a sealed, empty package.

Please do open up the thread. "

please also check the users post history and notice the nearly 3 year gap until they bid on my auction.

for now I wont add any more - I would like the communities input before I go any further.

thanks all - I welcome some comments.

 

This is a very strange case but the blame should clearly not land on you for some of these reasons:

1. Why did the user Sign for picking up the package 2 weeks ago and wait until yesterday/today to contact you.
2. Why did the user take the pictures before opening just to realize that it was empty? (Seems a bit suspicious)
3. If the reason behind #2 is that he thought the package was empty then why not contact you with the package intact and perhaps send it back, intact?
4. Why would you TMAN need to send one empty package to gain a few hundred dollars? I've seen you make deals for several thousands of dollars and both parties involved have always walked away happy.
5. This user has clearly not been involved too much considering the 3 year gap between posts as you mentioned. This does not bring a lot of trust since the account could have been purchased just to do something like this.

To me this is a pretty open and shut case and the user can try somewhere else.

[TMAN]

I'd recommend editing or removing the photo that essentially doxes the customer.  My 2 cents so far after quickly reviewing the post. 

cheers digi - sorry didn't double check that..

[teeGUMES]

seems provably true/false with the weight of package.(thank god Kialara's weigh as much as they do). Im not sure if it is the same in the UK as it is in Canada but when i send a parcel or package they weigh it and that adds to the cost of me sending the package. it should be included somewhere on the shipping receipt. (buyer did not claim anything inside as to fake the weight of the package, empty vs a kialara would be easily proven)

Looking at this from an escrow point of view, the proof needs to be given from both sides to the best of their ability to win any dispute. This proof does not include things such as community favorites or activity on a forum, its things such as receipts/pictures.

[digicoinuser]

I'd recommend editing or removing the photo that essentially doxes the customer.  My 2 cents so far after quickly reviewing the post.  

cheers digi - sorry didn't double check that..

You're welcome, glad I could point it out and you were able to correct it quickly.  

[shadallion]

I am the buyer in this situation.  

I sent the bitcoin for the Kialara after some positive exchanges with TMAN regarding this and other pieces.  He has a good trust score and was very responsive and I got a good vibe, and so I (lazily perhaps) opted to just send him the BTC for the item when I won, with no escrow.

All seemed to be going well and he provided a tracking number, and I paid to have it insured.

When I got the package, it was obviously empty AND SEALED.   Seller is saying that it is "sliced open" but it was not.  Maybe he's seeing some sort of fold in the tape from the picture, but it was literally just a sealed, empty envelope.

As soon as I picked it up my immediate thought was "dammit, I should have escrowed."  

Second thought:  "I know I got a real steal of a price on that auction, I guess he wasn't inclined to part with it for such a low price."

Third thought was:  "how can I ever "prove" that in fact it was an empty envelope when he first sent it?  When I contact the seller, he'll just say that it was stolen by some unknown person somewhere along the line.   He'll have proof that he sent the envelope and it will be his word against mine as to whether the item was ever actually in there or not.  He cleverly did this in a way that makes it almost impossible for me to get my BTC back."

Frankly, I despaired and figured I was just out the BTC, caveat emptor.  It wasn't a ton of money so I wasn't devastated, and my inclination was to just learn my lesson and move on.   I was also very busy with personal life issues, so I put it on the backburner  

As I kept thinking about it, I figured it was at least worth reaching out TMAN to ask why he would feel the need to stiff me.   So I messaged him yesterday about it.

He denied it and asked for pictures, which I sent.  He claimed that the pictures show that the envelope was sliced, but it was not.  It was a sealed envelope.  Unless someone was thoughtful enough to re-tape it shut after robbing it, the item just wasn't in there in the first place.

I will say that I am heartened that the seller volunteered to reopen this thread and basically throw this out to the community for judgement.  That shows a certain amount of good-will and I am hopeful that he will make this right.  

All I know is that I sent the BTC for the Kialara and received an empty, sealed envelope in return.  Just because I delayed in messaging him about it and didn't immediately start rampaging and complaining and down-voting him doesn't change that fact.  Also, just because I have been quiet on the forum for three years doesn't make me a liar either.  I got burned hard on the Activeminer scam and lost a small fortune, so I haven't been on here much at all since then.

Thank you

[TMAN]

No mention of the travelling?? The picture you sent is not perfect but I can see that the package was sliced open. Yet when you  sent me the PM you stated that the picture was taken before you opened the package..

I have shipped items worth more than 30x this package and not had my integrity questioned. I own one of the top 5 largest collections of kialara's in the world. Why would I scam someone over such a petty amount?

[FFrankie]

I took a video when I was opening a package from ironmarvel (I think) I paid about 0.47 btc or so in December. So I don't see how taking pictures of it before you open it is that far fetched. But there should be a shipping info with the weight to prove the auction winner is lying

[BitcoinNewsMagazine]

If insurance was paid for file a claim with the shipping agent and let them sort it out? I do have a hard time believing TMAN would risk his hard earned trust rating over a few hundred dollars. No offense but that is the way I see it.

[TMAN]

If insurance was paid for file a claim with the shipper and let them sort it out.

I can't as it is 2 weeks after it was signed for. TNT will laugh at me.. especially as the package was not signed for as damaged or open or empty.. really who would open a Jiffy bag that feels empty when you are expecting a metal bar??? Even more so why wait 2 weeks??

In PM he mentions traveling yet above no mention of that being the cause of the delay

[The Sceptical Chymist]

If insurance was paid for file a claim with the shipper and let them sort it out.

Doubtful that'll come to a satisfying resolution for anyone.  I get the feeling someone isn't telling the truth here, and somehow I don't think it's TMAN.  Could be wrong,  and I don't want to start pointing fingers because it's just a hunch.  Too bad there doesn't seem to be a way of proving what went wrong.  TMAN doesn't have a history of scamming and this doesn't seem like it would be exactly a lucrative enoughdeal to start scamming with, were he even inclined to do so.

[digicoinuser]

If there is proof of a shipping weight associated with the package I would advise sharing that.  It should be 4oz or more and an empty package will be 3oz or less.

[TMAN]

I took a video when I was opening a package from ironmarvel (I think) I paid about 0.47 btc or so in December. So I don't see how taking pictures of it before you open it is that far fetched. But there should be a shipping info with the weight to prove the auction winner is lying

Yea I have the AWB... but I wanted the community to comment before I posted it as I know the buyer is lying.

[squall1066]

I took a video when I was opening a package from ironmarvel (I think) I paid about 0.47 btc or so in December. So I don't see how taking pictures of it before you open it is that far fetched. But there should be a shipping info with the weight to prove the auction winner is lying

Yea I have the AWB... but I wanted the community to comment before I posted it as I know the buyer is lying.

sorry to hear this.

to everyone, I have traded thousands of GPB to TMAN in the past, I would trust him to drive my mum to the hospital whilst intoxicated!