Thread re opened due to buyer accusing me of shipping an empty package.

[TMAN]

I took a video when I was opening a package from ironmarvel (I think) I paid about 0.47 btc or so in December. So I don't see how taking pictures of it before you open it is that far fetched. But there should be a shipping info with the weight to prove the auction winner is lying

Yea I have the AWB... but I wanted the community to comment before I posted it as I know the buyer is lying.

sorry to hear this.

to everyone, I have traded thousands of GPB to TMAN in the past, I would trust him to drive my mum to the hospital whilst intoxicated!

Thanks squall. That made me laugh

[1715429003]

1715429003

[Rmcdermott927]

I took a video when I was opening a package from ironmarvel (I think) I paid about 0.47 btc or so in December. So I don't see how taking pictures of it before you open it is that far fetched. But there should be a shipping info with the weight to prove the auction winner is lying

Yea I have the AWB... but I wanted the community to comment before I posted it as I know the buyer is lying.

sorry to hear this.

to everyone, I have traded thousands of GPB to TMAN in the past, I would trust him to drive my mum to the hospital whilst intoxicated!

Lol. 


Same here though.  I have traded back and forth with Tman for a sum likely greater than 10 BTC.  This included an envelope with 2 kialara Labyrinths I won in an auction such as this one.  The envelope arrived safe and with the 2 kialara's I ordered.  I highly doubt Tman would scam anyone at all, let alone for such a small amount of BTC. 

[TMAN]

Thanks for the kind words guys. But this isn't about rep, this is about outing people who try to scam. I have the proof that backs up me sending the item.. we need to flush out scammers who try to pull a fast one as the next seller may be caught out not having the full evidence needed.

I believe I also have pictures of the packaging stages but I cannot be 100% sure as this was a few weeks ago before I emigrated. I will check tomorrow when I have unboxed the pc that has my pictures backed up on.

[teeGUMES]

Id slow it on calling the buyer a liar and such as well. It could be the scenario that the seller did ship it and that it were stolen in transit somehow. In that case it falls on the buyer to submit a claim to TNT for insurance.

Travelling isn't far fetched either, I work a two week on, one week off schedule and am often away. My more expensive items I have shipped somewhere where I know they'll be signed for for me.. sometimes if a coin gets held up in customs and arrives my first day gone it could be two weeks before I open it. Mind you I receive pictures and get the person to open it for me so I can release escrow promptly.

All I'm saying here is both buyer and seller could be telling the truth. It would be nice to hear from an escrow such as minerjones / ognasty / blazed as to how they would approach this situation if escrow were used. I believe emotion plays a lot with some of the replies here, these escrow services play a complete unbiased opinion when it comes down to proof and ultimate decision.

Always use escrow kids. No matter how much trust you have in a seller. You may trust the seller but you can't trust the shipping company to act in good faith.

[Lauda]

Objective assessment; there were a few mistakes with this transaction:
1) Tman failed to notice that this account woke up from a long period inactivity which makes it probable that it is no longer in the possession of the original owner.
2) Escrow was not used for a trade with an unknown member (even though that may not have necessarily prevented anything if a party is lying).
3) The story of the random member is already starting to become inconsistent and the time-delay makes this very suspicious.
4) Tman did not enact adequate measures in order to avoid situations like these (*).

* - This statement may be false depending on what is shown with this:

Yea I have the AWB... but I wanted the community to comment before I posted it as I know the buyer is lying.

It may be possible that it was indeed stolen in transit, even though this is very unlikely. Proving that it was indeed stolen is rather non-trivial.

[TMAN]

Id slow it on calling the buyer a liar and such as well. It could be the scenario that the seller did ship it and that it were stolen in transit somehow. In that case it falls on the buyer to submit a claim to TNT for insurance.

Travelling isn't far fetched either, I work a two week on, one week off schedule and am often away. My more expensive items I have shipped somewhere where I know they'll be signed for for me.. sometimes if a coin gets held up in customs and arrives my first day gone it could be two weeks before I open it. Mind you I receive pictures and get the person to open it for me so I can release escrow promptly.

All I'm saying here is both buyer and seller could be telling the truth. It would be nice to hear from an escrow such as minerjones / ognasty / blazed as to how they would approach this situation if escrow were used. I believe emotion plays a lot with some of the replies here, these escrow services play a complete unbiased opinion when it comes down to proof and ultimate decision.

Always use escrow kids. No matter how much trust you have in a seller. You may trust the seller but you can't trust the shipping company to act in good faith.

Have you ever made a claim against a courier? 1st thing they ask... was the package signed for as damaged.

If a courier handed me a package and it was paper weight and I was expecting a metal bar I would refuse to sign for it and RTS.. end of.. nothing else to say here

[TMAN]

Objective assessment; there were a few mistakes with this transaction:
1) Tman failed to notice that this account woke up from a long period inactivity which makes it probable that it is no longer in the possession of the original owner.
2) Escrow was not used for a trade with an unknown member (even though that may not have necessarily prevented anything if a party is lying).
3) The story of the random member is already starting to become inconsistent and the time-delay makes this very suspicious.
4) Tman did not enact adequate measures in order to avoid situations like these (*).

* - This statement may be false depending on what is shown with this:

Yea I have the AWB... but I wanted the community to comment before I posted it as I know the buyer is lying.

It may be possible that it was indeed stolen in transit, even though this is very unlikely. Proving that it was indeed stolen is rather non-trivial.

Thanks for the objective point of view. As an escrow yourself if this was a deal you held the funds for, how would you deal with t?

[shadallion]

I live in an apartment complex and the package was received by the apartment manager.  By the time I had it in hand, the delivery company was long gone.  I was handed this package.

Travel was part of the personal business - what of it?  It's not "inconsistent" it's simply fleshing out what I messaged the seller directly.  Do you immediately tell of your personal backstory in every circumstance?  As the issue has escalated to a broader audience, I chose to frame it differently.

TMAN, in answer to why you would do this over such a petty sum, I honestly don't know. Again, all I know is that when I got the envelope it was sealed and yet empty. 

I am wondering why if it was insured it didn't come to me personally - why was a third-party (my apartment manager) allowed to sign for it?  I paid for insurance with the shipping so isn't the onus on you to send it to me with directions that it actually be received and signed by me?

[Lauda]

Thanks for the objective point of view. As an escrow yourself if this was a deal you held the funds for, how would you deal with t?

If the accuser (in this case shadallion) is unable to provide adequate evidence for his accusation, then I'd dismiss it. In this particular case:
1) You (TMAN) can provide reasonable evidence that the package had the estimate weight (which is reasonable evidence that the package contained something, i.e. at least was not empty).
2) The buyer signing on delivery. One would expect to feel the difference between an empty package and one containing a metal bar. He/she could even go as far as rejecting the package all together. Them failing to report this in time, in combination with 1) (once provided) would probably make me dismiss it all together unless new evidence comes up.

TMAN, in answer to why you would do this over such a petty sum, I honestly don't know. Again, all I know is that when I got the envelope it was sealed and yet empty.  

It is not possible for both of these to be true at the same time:
1) The package having a certain weight when it was sent by TMAN.
2) The package being untampered.
One of them must be false. Maybe the apartment manager stole it?

[shadallion]

Please post the image of the receipt with the weight, or message it to me directly if it shows personal address, etc.  If it's legit then I will drop my complaint.  I am not lying about the envelope being sealed and empty, but if I see a receipt showing that there was an actual weighted item shipped to me, then I will have to be satisfied that someone swiped the item along the way.

[shadallion]

If insurance was paid for file a claim with the shipper and let them sort it out.

I can't as it is 2 weeks after it was signed for. TNT will laugh at me.. especially as the package was not signed for as damaged or open or empty.. really who would open a Jiffy bag that feels empty when you are expecting a metal bar??? Even more so why wait 2 weeks??

In PM he mentions traveling yet above no mention of that being the cause of the delay

I don't understand this. Are you saying TNT erases its records after 13 days?  That sound pretty far fetched to me. 

[Lauda]

I don't understand this. Are you saying TNT erases its records after 13 days?  That sound pretty far fetched to me.  

He says that he can't file an insurance claim 13 days after the item was signed on delivery (or that it would be foolish). You're supposed to report these things right away, and not wait 2 weeks FYI.

[TMAN]

Please post the image of the receipt with the weight, or message it to me directly if it shows personal address, etc.  If it's legit then I will drop my complaint.  I am not lying about the envelope being sealed and empty, but if I see a receipt showing that there was an actual weighted item shipped to me, then I will have to be satisfied that someone swiped the item along the way.

why are you ignoring the fact that the picture you sent me showed a slit in the package? After a bad experience I ensure everything I sent is extremely well packaged with tape over every edge of the envelope/jiffy. The picture though a pretty bad one showed the inside of the envelope where it had been split next to the brown tape.

You stated that you took the picture before you opened the package.....

[teeGUMES]

Please post the image of the receipt with the weight, or message it to me directly if it shows personal address, etc.  If it's legit then I will drop my complaint.  I am not lying about the envelope being sealed and empty, but if I see a receipt showing that there was an actual weighted item shipped to me, then I will have to be satisfied that someone swiped the item along the way.

why are you ignoring the fact that the picture you sent me showed a slit in the package? After a bad experience I ensure everything I sent is extremely well packaged with tape over every edge of the envelope/jiffy. The picture though a pretty bad one showed the inside of the envelope where it had been split next to the brown tape.

You stated that you took the picture before you opened the package.....

That looks like the plastic bag that's taped onto the package that the customs declaration thing comes in? It would be open if there were duty to be paid

Edit to add: pic 1 looks like the front and there is no plastic bag customs form thing. We need a picture of the back of packaging which is where this would have been I believe.

[mindrust]

Most of us skip this stuff (me included) but never ever let the postman leave before you check inside of the package, especially if what you are waiting for is a valuable item. When you sign the paper after you receive the item, there isn't much you can do later.

I know it is a pain in the ass but we need to do it to protect ourselves. I don't know the seller, he may forgot to put it inside the package (his trust rating says this is unilkely) or your item is stolen. (likely)

[TMAN]

Please post the image of the receipt with the weight, or message it to me directly if it shows personal address, etc.  If it's legit then I will drop my complaint.  I am not lying about the envelope being sealed and empty, but if I see a receipt showing that there was an actual weighted item shipped to me, then I will have to be satisfied that someone swiped the item along the way.

I'm getting bored of this shit now. It's nearly midnight here.... I'll give you a clue... look at the pictures you PM,d me

There is one that I had to remove from this thread......

[shadallion]

So everyone is believing that TMAN just happens to emigrating and his computer is in storage right now? 

I don't know what else to say.   He's got the BTC and I've got no Kialara.  I guess I am screwed.

I accept responsibility for not having surged into action the instant I realized I had been shipped an empty worthless envelope, but I doubt it would have mattered.

I guess all's fair in the wild, wild Bitcoin west. 

[digicoinuser]

Please post the image of the receipt with the weight, or message it to me directly if it shows personal address, etc.  If it's legit then I will drop my complaint.  I am not lying about the envelope being sealed and empty, but if I see a receipt showing that there was an actual weighted item shipped to me, then I will have to be satisfied that someone swiped the item along the way.

I'm getting bored of this shit now. It's nearly midnight here.... I'll give you a clue... look at the pictures you PM,d me

There is one that I had to remove from this thread......

Shipping weight was 0.25kg which works out to 8.8oz shipping weight, the image was still cached on my system from when I saw the label issue.

[Hhampuz]

So everyone is believing that TMAN just happens to emigrating and his computer is in storage right now? 

I don't know what else to say.   He's got the BTC and I've got no Kialara.  I guess I am screwed.

I accept responsibility for not having surged into action the instant I realized I had been shipped an empty worthless envelope, but I doubt it would have mattered.

I guess all's fair in the wild, wild Bitcoin west. 

I know for a fact that TMAN in fact has been emigrating.

[shadallion]

Please post the image of the receipt with the weight, or message it to me directly if it shows personal address, etc.  If it's legit then I will drop my complaint.  I am not lying about the envelope being sealed and empty, but if I see a receipt showing that there was an actual weighted item shipped to me, then I will have to be satisfied that someone swiped the item along the way.

I'm getting bored of this shit now. It's nearly midnight here.... I'll give you a clue... look at the pictures you PM,d me

There is one that I had to remove from this thread......

Shipping weight was 0.25kg which works out to 8.8oz shipping weight, the image was still cached on my system from when I saw the label issue.

You're right, it does say that....  I guess if that is accurate then it must have weighed that much when shipped....

I feel pretty stupid for not having realized that it would say the weight on there.  I don't see a way for that to have been faked so...

The envelope was empty and sealed when, and yet weighed over 1/2 pound when shipped.  Conclusion: someone stole it somewhere along the way and resealed it after.

My apologies, TMAN.  You acted in a good faith.  You did nothing wrong. 

Sorry also for the thread and the time spent analyzing.