Is Segwit for LTC really necessary? Why?

[lurker10]

everyone's thinking only in terms of segwit = scaling. that's cool but not the main reason for it. it allows tons of new possibilities. if segwit is activated on there it's also gonna attract an influx of bitcoin developers. why ignore the only game in town?

Examples?

[1714250057]

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[1714250057]

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[1714250057]

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[hankyulpark]

LTC started with a logical idea (supply faster blocks), but the crypto world evolved since then. SW is it chance to be innovative again and to attract more interested in it. Is it a bad thing? I really don't think so. All advance is good for all crypto coins and will help to create better versions of them. On the investor side of the view, I (we) need to keep track of these developments to see wich coins will remain relevant in the future.

[dwgscale11]

I cannot think

Correct. You can't think.

Watch and learn.

Next time you'll read what I wrote.

I already debunked this nonsense thread of yours.

But all you said were copy and pasting all your theories and arguments of what you think. Those cannot be proven until it is done in practice. How is that debunking the question if Segwit is really necessary?

The point of the question is if it is necessary now with the current usage of LTC. It will be an improvement I am sure. But is it necessary from the point of view of a user?

You first have to ask yourself, how is it being used now? Why do we need Segwit now to open the roads to a Lightning Network?

Litecoin has one and only one chance to ever get SegWit activated now while LTC is extremely undervalued (because this means miners can form a 75% consensus on rising the price, which won't be otherwise be possible due to the crab bucket game theory that John Nash designed into Satoshi's PoW). That window of opportunity will close and due the crab bucket mentality that Satoshi designed into PoW and never be possible again in the future.

Without off chain LN, there is no other way to scale Satoshi's PoW. I've refuted all the other technological BS such as larger blocks and Xthin.

Bitcoin will NEVER get scaling.

Litecoin MUST get scaling NOW. And it will. And it will receive all the transaction rate scaling that Bitcoin will NEVER be able to do.

Please don't make me explain this again.

Re: Snapchat first investor thinks bitcoin could realistically be worth $500,000

According to Jeremy Liew, the first investor in Snapchat, and Blockchain CEO and cofounder Peter Smith. In a presentation sent to Business Insider, the duo laid out their case for why it's reasonable for bitcoin to explode to $500,000 by 2030.

A very interesting article at Business Insider that worth reading: http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-could-be-500000-by-2030-first-snapchat-investor-says-2017-3

I originally thought BTC might top out below $50k.

But now that I understand that BTC will be exclusively only the settlement layer for the mass scaling which will take place in altcoins, I now think his analysis may be correct.

All the power broker settlement will likely to be on the Bitcoin blockchain which will be the bulk of the fungible capital generated by the masses on the altcoins as dictated by the power-law (Zipf's law) distribution of wealth. Thus Bitcoin is the reserve currency of all the altcoins.

This is why one must stay invested in this sector. Note I do think the altcoins that scale up the masses will see faster appreciation than BTC in spurts, so that is one of way of increasing one's BTC if you are expert at speculation. Otherwise buy and hodl BTC.

LTC is planning on implementing UASF.  What makes you think BTC won't do the same?

[JGoRed]

I cannot think of a practical reason why Segwit needs to be activated in LTC if the coin itself does not attract enough users to make it necessary. What if it becomes activated but nobody uses it? What good is it if it is not really that necessary?

One thing Segwit would do would be to attract more users and get pump LTC up a bit.

[bbc.reporter]

I cannot think

Correct. You can't think.

Watch and learn.

Next time you'll read what I wrote.

I already debunked this nonsense thread of yours.

But all you said were copy and pasting all your theories and arguments of what you think. Those cannot be proven until it is done in practice. How is that debunking the question if Segwit is really necessary?

The point of the question is if it is necessary now with the current usage of LTC. It will be an improvement I am sure. But is it necessary from the point of view of a user?

You first have to ask yourself, how is it being used now? Why do we need Segwit now to open the roads to a Lightning Network?

Litecoin has one and only one chance to ever get SegWit activated now while LTC is extremely undervalued (because this means miners can form a 75% consensus on rising the price, which won't be otherwise be possible due to the crab bucket game theory that John Nash designed into Satoshi's PoW). That window of opportunity will close and due the crab bucket mentality that Satoshi designed into PoW and never be possible again in the future.

Without off chain LN, there is no other way to scale Satoshi's PoW. I've refuted all the other technological BS such as larger blocks and Xthin.

Bitcoin will NEVER get scaling.

Litecoin MUST get scaling NOW. And it will. And it will receive all the transaction rate scaling that Bitcoin will NEVER be able to do.

Please don't make me explain this again.

You are saying that making litecoin scale now is needed, but for what? There are no assurances that the cryptocoin users will all go and use it. There is also the possibility that it will have a scalable platform ready to be used but with not enough transactions to make the move to activate segwit defensible.

Your theory is good and I try to understand all your posts. I am trying to play the devil's advocate to get a good discussion on the topic. We have the scalability issue thrown around in the forum a lot and no one has really asked the question what for? or is it really needed?.

[shinratensei_]

everyone's thinking only in terms of segwit = scaling. that's cool but not the main reason for it. it allows tons of new possibilities. if segwit is activated on there it's also gonna attract an influx of bitcoin developers. why ignore the only game in town?

Examples?

Lightning network? With the SegWit and there will lot of the possibilities for activating the off-chain transaction for bitcoin. SegWit is a way for a lot of the possibilities to get more solution and improvements.
Like European's said, the main reason of segwit to resolve the malleability transaction of bitcoin. Which satoshi hadn't known to resolve it. Scaling is just a side advantage from the segwit itself.

[reb0rn21]

Chines miner are toxic, at least few ppl that control it
You need to look at mona and VTC hash rate, nicehash ranting to see malicious plot by some group (we all know who they are jihan wo, roger, etc)  to block segwit on any alt there (at least know) they might miss some small ones

Same thing they now fight on LTC, that`s why you can not trust greedy miner that for few $$ (well more then few) will sell his hash as we sow few days ago some hash power shifted from segwit (bat pool) pool to fucking jihan pool antpool in matter of minute ...

Segwit is primary a patch that will allow crypto progress and more security, litecoin 100% today does not need bigger block so using and testing on it would be GR8 idea which no one can say is not good

Main downfall of litecoin was no edge development which any shit other alt use no one needed just to make hype
Now when market ask segwit on litecoin we have some VERY EVIL PPL that must be stoped if we wont to see crypto progress in general!

[lurker10]

everyone's thinking only in terms of segwit = scaling. that's cool but not the main reason for it. it allows tons of new possibilities. if segwit is activated on there it's also gonna attract an influx of bitcoin developers. why ignore the only game in town?

Examples?

Lightning network? With the SegWit and there will lot of the possibilities for activating the off-chain transaction for bitcoin. SegWit is a way for a lot of the possibilities to get more solution and improvements.
Like European's said, the main reason of segwit to resolve the malleability transaction of bitcoin. Which satoshi hadn't known to resolve it. Scaling is just a side advantage from the segwit itself.

LN is offchain scaling, the question was re possibilities other than scaling. What else is SW good for?
Malleability is a minor issue, Bitcoin has worked for 8 years as is.

[vanarebane]

Unnecessary because Litecoin's network is not crowd like Bitcoin's, this is only for pump, not the real use. If bitcoin signals SW, btc will be pumped too.

[aoluain]

I cannot think of a practical reason why Segwit needs to be activated in LTC if the coin itself does not attract enough users to make it necessary. What if it becomes activated but nobody uses it? What good is it if it is not really that necessary?

One thing Segwit would do would be to attract more users and get pump LTC up a bit.

I cannot think

Correct. You can't think.

Watch and learn.

Next time you'll read what I wrote.

I already debunked this nonsense thread of yours.

But all you said were copy and pasting all your theories and arguments of what you think. Those cannot be proven until it is done in practice. How is that debunking the question if Segwit is really necessary?

The point of the question is if it is necessary now with the current usage of LTC. It will be an improvement I am sure. But is it necessary from the point of view of a user?

You first have to ask yourself, how is it being used now? Why do we need Segwit now to open the roads to a Lightning Network?

Litecoin has one and only one chance to ever get SegWit activated now while LTC is extremely undervalued (because this means miners can form a 75% consensus on rising the price, which won't be otherwise be possible due to the crab bucket game theory that John Nash designed into Satoshi's PoW). That window of opportunity will close and due the crab bucket mentality that Satoshi designed into PoW and never be possible again in the future.

Without off chain LN, there is no other way to scale Satoshi's PoW. I've refuted all the other technological BS such as larger blocks and Xthin.

Bitcoin will NEVER get scaling.

Litecoin MUST get scaling NOW. And it will. And it will receive all the transaction rate scaling that Bitcoin will NEVER be able to do.

Please don't make me explain this again.

You are saying that making litecoin scale now is needed, but for what? There are no assurances that the cryptocoin users will all go and use it. There is also the possibility that it will have a scalable platform ready to be used but with not enough transactions to make the move to activate segwit defensible.

Your theory is good and I try to understand all your posts. I am trying to play the devil's advocate to get a good discussion on the topic. We have the scalability issue thrown around in the forum a lot and no one has really asked the question what for? or is it really needed?.

This could be an important point I think, If/When Litecoin gets segwit and
the value pumps big what will happen to the "investments" when it stops?
there is a lot of volume already in litecoin and more waiting
to migrate into it and in turn will be even quicker to leave once the pump stops.

Is this all segwit is gonna provide for Ltc?
would that be the natural course of events in times of positive/negative hype like we are experiencing now?

[reb0rn21]

Unnecessary because Litecoin's network is not crowd like Bitcoin's, this is only for pump, not the real use. If bitcoin signals SW, btc will be pumped too.

Please learn what segwit is, its not about block scaling why litecoin need it
As market want to test SEGWIT as solution for bitcoin problem, litecoin can be used for that test!!

[ChinkyEyes]

I was wondering if using segwit, won't people start scamming each other like in the example below? Or am I not reading it correctly?

"Who benefits?
Anyone spending unconfirmed transactions: if Alice pays Bob in transaction 1, Bob uses that payment to pay Charlie in transaction 2, and then Alice’s payment gets malleated and confirmed with a different txid, then transaction 2 is now invalid and Charlie has not been paid. If Bob is trustworthy, he will reissue the payment to Charlie; but if he isn’t, he can simply keep those bitcoins for himself."

Source: https://bitcoincore.org/en/2016/01/26/segwit-benefits/

[lurker10]

Unnecessary because Litecoin's network is not crowd like Bitcoin's, this is only for pump, not the real use. If bitcoin signals SW, btc will be pumped too.

Please learn what segwit is, its not about block scaling why litecoin need it
As market want to test SEGWIT as solution for bitcoin problem, litecoin can be used for that test!!

What problem?

[reb0rn21]

Unnecessary because Litecoin's network is not crowd like Bitcoin's, this is only for pump, not the real use. If bitcoin signals SW, btc will be pumped too.

Please learn what segwit is, its not about block scaling why litecoin need it
As market want to test SEGWIT as solution for bitcoin problem, litecoin can be used for that test!!

What problem?

where do you live in a cave?
(high fees, limited transaction per minut, etc)
offchain scale and lightning network can be shared on both BTC and LTC, so if litecoin have segwit/LN his resources can be used for BTC lightning transfer

I was wondering if using segwit, won't people start scamming each other like in the example below? Or am I not reading it correctly?

"Who benefits?
Anyone spending unconfirmed transactions: if Alice pays Bob in transaction 1, Bob uses that payment to pay Charlie in transaction 2, and then Alice’s payment gets malleated and confirmed with a different txid, then transaction 2 is now invalid and Charlie has not been paid. If Bob is trustworthy, he will reissue the payment to Charlie; but if he isn’t, he can simply keep those bitcoins for himself."

Source: https://bitcoincore.org/en/2016/01/26/segwit-benefits/

segwit is the bug fix for the problem you are writing, that can happen now on bitcoin and litecoin and on all the clones...

[lurker10]

where do you live in a cave?
(high fees, limited transaction per minut, etc)
offchain scale and lightning network can be shared on both BTC and LTC, so if litecoin have segwit/LN his resources can be used for BTC lightning transfer

Easy, easy there.
Scaling is without a doubt a problem. I thought you had meant something else.
You say Segwit must be tested on Litecoin, is it not secure to implement directly on Bitcoin?
If LTC is only for testing Segwit, do you see no value in LTC per se?

[kelsey]

You say Segwit must be tested on Litecoin, is it not secure to implement directly on Bitcoin?
If LTC is only for testing Segwit, do you see no value in LTC per se?

well last time i looked testnet bitcoins had no monetary value so yes most definitively if this is all about litecoin being merely a testbed for segwit on bitcoin then yes litecoin is a worthless token.

however while that maybe the line coblee and co are feeding you thats not the game thats being played out 

[Ayers]

Unnecessary because Litecoin's network is not crowd like Bitcoin's, this is only for pump, not the real use. If bitcoin signals SW, btc will be pumped too.

Please learn what segwit is, its not about block scaling why litecoin need it
As market want to test SEGWIT as solution for bitcoin problem, litecoin can be used for that test!!

What problem?

problems that are about block size limit and scaling, bitcoin can't scale correctly with 1MB block, with segwit you have effectively 2MB block or more, and make bitcoin scale more, but not like a final solution, just a first step that in conjuction with lightining network will make bitcoin fully scalable in the future

[dwgscale11]

You say Segwit must be tested on Litecoin, is it not secure to implement directly on Bitcoin?
If LTC is only for testing Segwit, do you see no value in LTC per se?

well last time i looked testnet bitcoins had no monetary value so yes most definitively if this is all about litecoin being merely a testbed for segwit on bitcoin then yes litecoin is a worthless token.

however while that maybe the line coblee and co are feeding you thats not the game thats being played out 

Litecoin is a better testnet BECAUSE it has value.... And that is not the only use for Segwit on Litecoin.  For more information and basics of Segwit please see https://segwit.org/my-vision-for-segwit-and-lightning-networks-on-litecoin-and-bitcoin-cf95a7ab656b

[lurker10]

Unnecessary because Litecoin's network is not crowd like Bitcoin's, this is only for pump, not the real use. If bitcoin signals SW, btc will be pumped too.

Please learn what segwit is, its not about block scaling why litecoin need it
As market want to test SEGWIT as solution for bitcoin problem, litecoin can be used for that test!!

What problem?

problems that are about block size limit and scaling, bitcoin can't scale correctly with 1MB block, with segwit you have effectively 2MB block or more, and make bitcoin scale more, but not like a final solution, just a first step that in conjuction with lightining network will make bitcoin fully scalable in the future

Segwit is an overengineered solution for a simple problem.
BU+Classic+8M block signalling is over 50% already, Segwit signalling is 30% on the best day.
Soon Bitcoin will scale with bigger blocks, no overcomplicated Segwit is required for this.
What else does Segwit "solve"? Nothing.

[rickadone]

I cannot think of a practical reason why Segwit needs to be activated in LTC if the coin itself does not attract enough users to make it necessary. What if it becomes activated but nobody uses it? What good is it if it is not really that necessary?

Not correlated. It might not be useful for litecoin , a cryptocurrency that has low volume and mostly exchanged to btc anyway. It is however could be a very needed thing for btc, which is used by a lot more people, have a much higher volume and used to do what fiat currency does. You might be right, but you might be totally totally wrong.