UASF Economic Weight

[AngryDwarf]

Everything you wrote is incorrect.

Care to explain why?

[AngryDwarf]

Actually, I probably need to think about the transaction broadcasting between the split chains more in the case where/if segwit applies the node banning hammer.
Any help would be appreciated.

[AngryDwarf]

Since in the contentious case, transaction interplay between the split blockchains would create a complete clusterfuck, this would be a deterrent to a bilateral split*, and exchanges would not be able to list two different coins. They would have to suspend deposits and withdrawals whilst the system is resolved one way or the other.

As this situation is not desirable to anyone in the long term, it would lead to one of the two results I explained earlier in the thread:

1.) The miners will follow the economic majority.
2.) The economic players will follow the mining majority.

In both cases, everyone will eventually unite on one blockchain.

Since the possibility of 1.) exists, this means the bitcoin protocol itself is not immutable. The blockchain record might be immutable, but not the future protocol behaviour.

* As it would be fighting against existing bitcoin protocol behaviour, no one can demand it to change.

[Wind_FURY]

The idea behind UASF is to persuade/influence/ miners to fork, but
the problem is that anything except hash power is relatively inexpensive
to spoof.  So, this goes against the philosophy of Bitcoin PoW.

right, but get mostly everyone, bitfinex, stamps, bitpay etc. all supporting USAF, and its not ambiguous and the idea of "spoofing" is a non issue.
its not inconceivable that with a minority hashing power and a minority node count, a UASF is successful and carries with it the BTC brand.

Nonsense. Just a lot more fools who can lose their money. The smart money will sell the USAF minority hashrate fork and buy the majority hashrate fork. Jihan might even temporarily mine on the USAF fork and lie-in-wait, so that the fools sell the legal fork and buy the illegal USAF forkoff, and the smart money will do the opposite. Then Jihan moves his hashrate onto the legal fork and bankrupts all the retards.

Sweet justice in the law of immutable protocol.

I wonder what people like Mircea Popescu are thinking about this whole drama right now. You should also factor in people like him and what potential twists they can cause in this whole debacle. I hope he does not go crazy and dump all his BTC to crash it out of frustration.

Hell no. He is doing other things^TM until it is time to take money from those who sell the legal fork and buy the illegal one. He will do the opposite.

You seem like you are always in contact with the guy. Mircea Popescu strikes me as someone who is motivated and moved by his ideals. Your post is saying he is the exact opposite and only cares about making money.

Its been a while since he did the DAO attack, so about time for some more retard spanking fireworks.

The rumor all point to him but is this confirmed? Do you know what his intentions are with all the ETC he "earned"?

[xhiggy]

So what happens if the miners have a significant majority of hash power and are vehemently opposed to segwit, or the team which is trying to control the development of the protocol?

They use enough hash power to ensure the original chain is the longest.

They use their remaining hash power to attack the segwit chain. This can be done in a number of ways, for example:
1. Mining empty blocks making the segwit chain economic useless.
2. Getting lucky by chaining empty blocks and releasing them orphaning genuinely mined segwit blocks which have transactions in them, yet again making the segwit chain economically useless.

In this case, the economic players (exchanges, payment services, etc.) declare the segwit chain dead and downgrade so they are back on the original chain.

Note, in this case we are not on a 'BU' chain, just the original bitcoin chain without segwit.

But what happens if the economic players decide to play a long term stance against the miners? This is where things will start to get really ugly.

Economic players have no leverage. If they play hardball on the non-majority chain their non braindead competitors will just benefit and they will go bankrupt because of their own obvious stupidity. Merchants exists to give us options, they'll do that if there is a chain split. All the 'UASF ready' BS will do nothing for its success.

[Killerpotleaf]

iamnotback is WRONG!  
also you too xhiggy...

economic majority is EVERYTHING!
the white paper simply assumes that hashing power would always at least Represent the will of the economic majority, short of being economic majority.
the longest chain is meaningless if its not valid
and the definition of "valid" can and will change.
imagine 85% of the hashing power started to produce empty blocks, all day long forever.
this will severely cripple bitcoins ability to TX, 1 or 2 new rules will be required, somthing like blocks cannot be empty, and blocks must be mostly filled with TX that are in most nodes mempools, or somthing.

in that case a UASF is easily achievable.
and we could very well get in a case where we fork off with minority hashing power and minority node count ( because under sybil attack )
and STILL WIN!

@iamnotback

no i do not give a SHIT if the economic minority throws a hissy fit and manages to bring us cheap coins!!!!! For a short while...

welcome to the blockchain
lets FORK!

[Killerpotleaf]

i dont believe the idea that bitcoin will become an immutable protocol
i dont buy the bullshit  iamnotback is saying about the "whales"
and you know what i dont even care what the whales think, let them dump on the chain i believe to be valid, and let see how that works out for them.

I WANT TO FORK YOUR MOTHER!!!!!!!!!!

[AngryDwarf]

Economic players have no leverage. If they play hardball on the non-majority chain their non braindead competitors will just benefit and they will go bankrupt because of their own obvious stupidity. Merchants exists to give us options, they'll do that if there is a chain split. All the 'UASF ready' BS will do nothing for its success.

I think you make an interesting point. I doubt there will be any talk of an imminent hard fork now. Segwit has started the next move with UASF, and they will be up against the existing bitcoin protocol.

UASF will be the Charge of the Light Brigade.

@Killerpotleaf won't know which way to point his horse, as he as smoked too much!