[2017-04-05]Bitfinex Reimburses Hacked Customers in Full

[Vladdirescu87]

Bitfinex has announced that it has finally redeemed 100% of all issued and outstanding BFX tokens.

Bitfinex has announced that it has redeemed all of the BFX tokens issued after the crippling hack last summer that removed almost 120.000 Bitcoins from customer’s wallets.

In August 2016, the Hong Kong based exchange was hit by a massive hack, stripping customer’s accounts of 119,756 Bitcoins, or around 70 million dollars. The attack on the leading Bitcoin exchange shook the whole market, with Bitcoin prices dropping within hours. The exchange decided to distribute losses among all users, with a general loss percentage of 36%. BFX tokens were created after the hack, with an obligation to return the 36% of lost funds to all customers.

The full article: https://coinidol.com/cryptocurrency-best-practices-meet-best-response-in-poland/

[BurtW]

Got all my money back (in USD).

[1Referee]

Got all my money back (in USD).

Since you seem to be a genuine poster, I was wondering; I personally would be pissed off knowing that what I would have lost in coin quantity, is only refunded to me in USD equivalent according to the value at that time. Aren't you pissed off yourself by that fact, or are you just happy that you got back what they gave you? Another thing; What's your view on that exchange as we speak? Are you still using Bitfinex or moved over to another exchange already?

[LoyceV]

Since you seem to be a genuine poster, I was wondering; I personally would be pissed off knowing that what I would have lost in coin quantity, is only refunded to me in USD equivalent according to the value at that time.

This is indeed wrong on so many levels:
-they decided to socialize their losses over all customers, while in fact they should have filed for bankruptcy (according to laws in most countries at least)
-they created "tokens" that were traded at lower price, possibly buying back their own debt at a lower price
-they had a debt many times bigger than their annual profit. Where did they get the money this quick?
-they now pay back the USD value, which is like half the Bitcoin value. That means they compensate 2 BTC by giving you 1 BTC (rounded for the sake of argument)

I'm surprised people still use this exchange, before the hack they claimed to be safe with multisig wallets.

[TraderTimm]

They now have a claimed 180 million "not stuck" but somehow contentiously being held up by "partner banks". But "don't worry", this amount doesn't mean anything, right?

Why is my Mt Gox alarm ringing? Oh that's right, when things started to go south for Gox was when the legacy banking system started to obstruct their transfers. How is this not the same?

Oh right, BFX said it wasn't a problem. Well, I should trust those guys, after all -- they did embezzle customer money to pay their legal fees and then issued an IOU token scheme to pay customers from other customers trading fees. With an incestuous relationship like that, what ISN'T possible?

I look forward to their next equivalent of "Two Weeks" and "Soonish"....

[1Referee]

I'm surprised people still use this exchange

Same goes up for me as well. I seriously thought it would more or less be the end of Bitfinex as a leading exchange (in the way that traders move away since this exchange can't be trusted anymore), but the opposite is true. Right now it seems like nothing has changed. They are the leading exchange as they have always been (discarding the fake Chinese volumes back then). Another funny thing is the timing of paying back. Now the price has more or less doubled in value, they basically need to use (liquidate) 50% of the "stolen" coins to compensate for people's losses. Another scenario is that probably this or next year, the "hacker" that managed to get away with a 120K BTC theft, will kindly return the missing coins. In that regard, the coins that are now basically useless since they are marked as stolen, will then become completely legal again. It stinks.

[BurtW]

Since you seem to be a genuine poster, I was wondering; I personally would be pissed off knowing that what I would have lost in coin quantity, is only refunded to me in USD equivalent according to the value at that time. Aren't you pissed off yourself by that fact, or are you just happy that you got back what they gave you?

I am happy that I got all my USD back because the usual case when this sort of thing happens is that I get nothing back.  Getting all my USD back is way better than getting nothing back.

Another thing; What's your view on that exchange as we speak? Are you still using Bitfinex or moved over to another exchange already?

I will continue to use this exchange because of how they responded to this.  There were other options available to them that would have left us all totally holding the bag.

This is indeed wrong on so many levels:
-they decided to socialize their losses over all customers, while in fact they should have filed for bankruptcy (according to laws in most countries at least)

Yes, they could have filed for bankruptcy and then we would have gotten nothing.  The way they handled it was much better.  We got the USD value of all of our BTC at the time of the hack.  Way better than nothing.

-they created "tokens" that were traded at lower price, possibly buying back their own debt at a lower price

Yes, I got tokens.  Then I had the option of selling them off at a lower price, possibly back to Bitfinex.   Some people lost faith and sold at a loss.  That was their choice.  I did not. Notice the words option and choice.  Something we would not have had if they had filed for bankruptcy.  So, again this was a much better option, gave everyone options and choice and for those that did not panic we got our USD back.

-they had a debt many times bigger than their annual profit. Where did they get the money this quick?

Many people exchanged the debt tokens for equity.  They attracted a lot of new business because of the way they handled the hack - proving it was the correct business decision.  Possibly they bought some of the debt at a discount from those that panicked - no way to prove it one way or the other.  Those that chose to take the equity offering now get dividends.  Again choice and options.  Something your "solution" of bankruptcy would not have done.

-they now pay back the USD value, which is like half the Bitcoin value. That means they compensate 2 BTC by giving you 1 BTC (rounded for the sake of argument)

Or doing what you consider "right", filing for bankruptcy, I would have been compensated 0 BTC for every 2 BTC lost in the hack

I'm surprised people still use this exchange, before the hack they claimed to be safe with multisig wallets.

I will continue to use the exchange because of the services they offer, the price of the services, the way they responded to the hack and the fact they have been hacked.  Because the pain of the hack will cause them to improve security.  Because of the hack I consider them to be safer and more secure.  Because of the hack and they way they handled it I consider them the best exchange to do business with and trust with my crypto and fiat currencies.

[1Referee]

Thanks for your reply. It's interesting to see how you think about an exchange that can't proof it was really hacked. In that regard, I find it dangerous to see you taking such a stance in this whole situation. I can't deny that Bitfinex offers a great set of tools, liquidity, etc, but is that really worth the risk you expose yourself to? I personally find not, but you apparently do.

[TraderTimm]

Thanks for your reply. It's interesting to see how you think about an exchange that can't proof it was really hacked. In that regard, I find it dangerous to see you taking such a stance in this whole situation. I can't deny that Bitfinex offers a great set of tools, liquidity, etc, but is that really worth the risk you expose yourself to? I personally find not, but you apparently do.

BurtW is just another fool in a long line of fools that allowed Gox to happen, allowed other exchange heists to happen. They ignore all warnings, think things are "good enough" and don't care about where the money came from - as long as they were "paid back" they're "just fine".

If people fled BFX after the first "hack", there wouldn't be anything left for them to scam - but willing investors like BurtW here keep scam-artists alive, because they allow their hope to override their common sense.

Its sad, but I guess the final lesson is incoming, when BurtW finds out that he can't get his money out - yet again - and BFX is saying "no problem, just wait two weeks"....

Just watch....

[BurtW]

Thanks for your reply. It's interesting to see how you think about an exchange that can't proof it was really hacked. In that regard, I find it dangerous to see you taking such a stance in this whole situation. I can't deny that Bitfinex offers a great set of tools, liquidity, etc, but is that really worth the risk you expose yourself to? I personally find not, but you apparently do.

BurtW is just another fool in a long line of fools that allowed Gox to happen, allowed other exchange heists to happen. They ignore all warnings, think things are "good enough" and don't care about where the money came from - as long as they were "paid back" they're "just fine".

If people fled BFX after the first "hack", there wouldn't be anything left for them to scam - but willing investors like BurtW here keep scam-artists alive, because they allow their hope to override their common sense.

Its sad, but I guess the final lesson is incoming, when BurtW finds out that he can't get his money out - yet again - and BFX is saying "no problem, just wait two weeks"....

Just watch....

You sound so bitter.  How much did you lose in the Bitfinex hack?  How much did you lose in the MTGOX debacle?  For me it was:

MTGOX:  Lost everything
Bitfinex:  Lost just the appreciation of the BTC.  Got back the USD value of all BTC at the time of the hack.

Call me stupid all you want.  I prefer the Bitfinex outcome to the MTGOX outcome.

[1Referee]

TraderTimm is direct in what he is saying, so yes, it may sound bitter to you, but he hit the nail exactly there where it should be hit. Bitfinex is an exchange that can't be trusted, and they won't hesitate to go through this whole situation once again at some point. You know why? Because people like you are so easily tricked into believing something. It's great that you got back what you lost in fiat value (especially when you compare it to how things went for you regarding MtGox), but don't be blinded because of how they "solved" everything. It was a well set up plan, and you guys fall for it. Result; Traders are happy that they got 'compensated', and Bitfinex gang happy because they earned themselves an easy $30,000,000. Now it's waiting for round 2...

[TraderTimm]

You sound so bitter.  How much did you lose in the Bitfinex hack?  How much did you lose in the MTGOX debacle?  For me it was:

MTGOX:  Lost everything
Bitfinex:  Lost just the appreciation of the BTC.  Got back the USD value of all BTC at the time of the hack.

Call me stupid all you want.  I prefer the Bitfinex outcome to the MTGOX outcome.

I lost nothing from Gox because I PAID ATTENTION TO WHAT WAS GOING ON. I've lost nothing from BFX, because I recognized the same SCAM behavior patterns.

I suggest you PAY ATTENTION to what is happening at Bitfinex, beyond your simple-simon goal of "I'm all good, kthx". And yes, I'm direct, because its people like YOU, that keep trading with THEM, that allows THEM to spring their next con-artist inspired "hack" on the userbase.

Get the hell out of there, or you will regret it financially.

[BurtW]

So you lost nothing from either situation.

You have a very loud opinion.

You are so much smarter than me it must hurt you to see someone as stupid as me flush my money down the toilet.

Thanks for all of your free advice.  

I am off do to some more trading at the second largest trading platform by volume.

You do what you will.

Try not to take yourself and your opinion so darn seriously.  You won't sound so bitter.

[Carlton Banks]

I am off do to some more trading at the second largest trading platform by volume.

You do what you will.

Try not to take yourself and your opinion so darn seriously.  You won't sound so bitter.

And Bitfinex are loving every bit of free positive publicity they are consistently getting from you, BurtW.


You should ask Bitfinex if they will offer you a paycheck for your kind words, I understand that subtle user-driven product placement type advertising is actually the most effective way to sell a business.

Seeing as Bitfinex haven't actually repaid any clients their fiat money, you may end up getting paid in their debt-tokens, but hey, you believe so strongly in their solvency, I'm sure you'd accept BFX debt in payment for the service you're, currently, providing for free.

[BurtW]

Seeing as Bitfinex haven't actually repaid any clients their fiat money

Proof?