MoneyPot & Investors

[JackpotRacer]

JPR, It is a holiday weekend.

I sincerely propose you stop trolling and take time to enjoy it with your friends and family. 

It will help clear your head and we want you to be healthy. 

After the weekend, feel free to going back to whatever it is you are doing. 

I just kindly ask that you give it a break for this holiday weekend.  We all (including you) deserve the peace and rest.

again wrong posting and calling me a Troll will not help you vice versa it shows you wont learn and stop talking BS and I call it an insult on my intellect. check my answer to your head dev

[B_UN1T]

Nearly one year ago MP Bankroll was only around 120BTC and maxpayout was 1.2BTC.

For me the biggest mistake is/was to lower the maxpayout to 0.5% from the bankroll. How should the IVP grow?

[umairsaleem011]

Does anyone know the true identity of the money pot team?

[B_UN1T]

Does anyone know the true identity of the money pot team?

What i heard is the Identity from the owners are known

[umairsaleem011]

Does anyone know the true identity of the money pot team?

What i heard is the Identity from the owners are known

Link?

[CrazyCraig]

hi

I dont have any vendetta with MP I am just defending and not attacking

ok lets try to start a serious conversation/discussion with facts. I remember very well that we had some nice conversations (PMs) on slack when you started at MP

I also remember very well that you said the following about our app:
"your site has a good thing going for it.A solid Dev and you can take it to the next level. Truly thats all it really takes"

I really appreciated your comment.

but suddenly your changed your behavior and started to attack me and without any reason and even attacking normal users as my shill accounts.

IMO the head dev should not own an app because he has insider knowledge and always an advantage against any other app owner. he sure can have an app for testing but no one beside him and MP owners should have access to gamble on it.

you are gambling like a whale on your app and promised to stop and then started again. all those signs are showing to experienced casino owners (like us) that you are a gambler and a gambler should not have server seeds access and there should be no discussion about it. but sure we can do another Poll but IMO not needed cause it is again a question if 1 + 1 = 2?

why would you think it is an attack on your person? it is a given fact that a business like MP should not let the head dev or anyone with server seeds access gamble. I am sure if you think about it you will agree but if you just want to attack JPR you will say I am a Troll. it could be any other head dev working for MP. lets take Blacksheep aka AcoinL aka Matt etc he is also a gambler and I have nothing against gamblers but a gambler and MP owner it does not fit together and lets be clear about it that he had server seeds access at one point.

if MP owners and you would just accept the obvious stuff I am asking and talking about there should be no attack and I dont need to defend.

MP business model had a very good chance to work out very fine but looking at the BR you will agree that something went wrong and if MP will close or be sold again it is not because of JPR who asked some legit questions. MP did all the mistakes long ago.

please let me repeat that all my questions and postings are not to attack anyone but to get answers and fair solutions. but not giving any serious answers and only "soon" or you are a Troll will not satisfy me or any other normal person. I call it an attack of any ones intellect.

I hope you understand my point and we can get to a normal discussion with respect for each other

I understand that there may be transparency issues and your believe that it is wrong for me to gamble on MP. The truth is, I could gamble behind the scenes and nobody would know. Doing it under my user account creates transparency and opens my play to the public. We log every query, anything abnormal sends an alert.

I am not a degenerate gambler. I gamble from time to time and am not dependent on gambling to survive. I did whale a point but quickly stopped when the value of bitcoin increased. At a brick and mortar casino, I play odds that relate to those of my bitcoin bets. $25-100, $200+ depending on certain circumstances.

There is nothing negative about owning an app on Moneypot. We are not in competition with each other. Stop looking at it like that. I have preached from day 1 that we need to operate together.

I created the app in an effort to learn and understand the API in a quick method. I would actually say this has been a positive for Moneypot because I have found bugs, have been able to relate with app owners, and have tailored future features around the experience I gathered owning an app.

Im not going to get involved in the business math / decisions of Moneypot. I am just a developer.

I also have nothing against you. I have never once created a shill to attack you. When I have voiced my frustrations with you its been under this account. I get frustrated with you at times because you fail to see my points and beat a dead horse.

[dannon]

Moneypot negative investor profit is very bad. How can investor lose so much but moneypot and dev profit?

[MinerHQ]

Moneypot negative investor profit is very bad. How can investor lose so much but moneypot and dev profit?

That is a worry with moneypot profit sharing system. Moneypot always make a profit whether investors lose or make money and push all the losses to investors. Since many months investors never made any profit from this site. I moved my funds to cryptogames site around six months back and got a good profit.

[Kizaki]

Losing that much bitcoins in this such investments is possible at all.Investors profits are depending on the players/users who wins or losses in the game.More wins by the users means more lose on the investors side.Maybe big percentage of players are winning by that date and the reason why investors lose that much money

[JackpotRacer]

hi

I dont have any vendetta with MP I am just defending and not attacking

ok lets try to start a serious conversation/discussion with facts. I remember very well that we had some nice conversations (PMs) on slack when you started at MP

I also remember very well that you said the following about our app:
"your site has a good thing going for it.A solid Dev and you can take it to the next level. Truly thats all it really takes"

I really appreciated your comment.

but suddenly your changed your behavior and started to attack me and without any reason and even attacking normal users as my shill accounts.

IMO the head dev should not own an app because he has insider knowledge and always an advantage against any other app owner. he sure can have an app for testing but no one beside him and MP owners should have access to gamble on it.

you are gambling like a whale on your app and promised to stop and then started again. all those signs are showing to experienced casino owners (like us) that you are a gambler and a gambler should not have server seeds access and there should be no discussion about it. but sure we can do another Poll but IMO not needed cause it is again a question if 1 + 1 = 2?

why would you think it is an attack on your person? it is a given fact that a business like MP should not let the head dev or anyone with server seeds access gamble. I am sure if you think about it you will agree but if you just want to attack JPR you will say I am a Troll. it could be any other head dev working for MP. lets take Blacksheep aka AcoinL aka Matt etc he is also a gambler and I have nothing against gamblers but a gambler and MP owner it does not fit together and lets be clear about it that he had server seeds access at one point.

if MP owners and you would just accept the obvious stuff I am asking and talking about there should be no attack and I dont need to defend.

MP business model had a very good chance to work out very fine but looking at the BR you will agree that something went wrong and if MP will close or be sold again it is not because of JPR who asked some legit questions. MP did all the mistakes long ago.

please let me repeat that all my questions and postings are not to attack anyone but to get answers and fair solutions. but not giving any serious answers and only "soon" or you are a Troll will not satisfy me or any other normal person. I call it an attack of any ones intellect.

I hope you understand my point and we can get to a normal discussion with respect for each other

I understand that there may be transparency issues and your believe that it is wrong for me to gamble on MP. The truth is, I could gamble behind the scenes and nobody would know. Doing it under my user account creates transparency and opens my play to the public. We log every query, anything abnormal sends an alert.

yes TRANSPARENCY is a big issue IMO

yes you could gamble behind the scenes and therefore it is a must that you the Head Dev should not have server seeds access IMO and I am not alone as another trusted member also voiced same opinion

you also should only do test bets and not gamble on any MP app. I could give many reasons if needed

I am not a degenerate gambler. I gamble from time to time and am not dependent on gambling to survive. I did whale a point but quickly stopped when the value of bitcoin increased. At a brick and mortar casino, I play odds that relate to those of my bitcoin bets. $25-100, $200+ depending on certain circumstances.

I didnt say you are a degenerate gambler. I said you are a sick gambler cause you promised at one point in public that you will only do test bets and then started again to gamble like a whale and this was the reason for me saying you are a sick gambler. it is like an alcoholic will promise to stop drinking and then starts again after a short while. I am sure you will agree with it even JPR said it

every casino would be glad to have you as a gambler in his casino and there is nothing negative against you or any gambler. but a head dev and gambler doesnt go together if he has access to the server seeds

There is nothing negative about owning an app on Moneypot. We are not in competition with each other. Stop looking at it like that. I have preached from day 1 that we need to operate together.

each app is in competition to the other apps and thats just normal. IMO MP owners and head dev should not own any apps because you have insider knowledge and always an advantage and you are a step ahead

yes you preached from day one that all need to operate together and I agreed and we always let other app owners advertise their promos in our chat room. @Yahoo and @Pokerowned could confirm this

I created the app in an effort to learn and understand the API in a quick method. I would actually say this has been a positive for Moneypot because I have found bugs, have been able to relate with app owners, and have tailored future features around the experience I gathered owning an app.

if you want to test the v2 or anything else just do an app and dont give the public access and only you and MP owners could test it till it goes live. I call this fair play

Im not going to get involved in the business math / decisions of Moneypot. I am just a developer.

here I have a problem now because I know that when we started to PM in slack you were a dev and were waiting to get MP owners ok to start full time. but when a trusted member said that the head dev should never get server seeds access Dogedigital very quick announced that you are a partner and co owner. sorry but I didnt believe it and it was like magician had to take a rabbit out of a pocket to save the show

I knew you are the dev and not an owner. to be an investor in the BR doesnt mean you are an owner cause I was also invested and was not an owner. it is a big difference.

I also have nothing against you. I have never once created a shill to attack you. When I have voiced my frustrations with you its been under this account. I get frustrated with you at times because you fail to see my points and beat a dead horse.

lets say I fail to see your point then IMO you should try to explain your point again in ELI5 and I am sure we could get along cause I know that at the end 1+1 is always 2 and it will not help to call me a Troll like Dogedigital is doing

[JackpotRacer]

Moneypot negative investor profit is very bad. How can investor lose so much but moneypot and dev profit?

That is a worry with moneypot profit sharing system. Moneypot always make a profit whether investors lose or make money and push all the losses to investors. Since many months investors never made any profit from this site. I moved my funds to cryptogames site around six months back and got a good profit.

another smart investor! congrats

did you already vote here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1865749.msg18547542#msg18547542

[CrazyCraig]

So jpr, how am I suppose to develop and manage db structure, perform db maintence, etc if I don't have access?

[JackpotRacer]

So jpr, how am I suppose to develop and manage db structure, perform db maintence, etc if I don't have access?

I as a non coder know that it can be done and I am sure an experienced dev can explain it better than me

[CrazyCraig]

So jpr, how am I suppose to develop and manage db structure, perform db maintence, etc if I don't have access?

I as a non coder know that it can be done and I am sure an experienced dev can explain it better than me

Jpr, clearly you do not know me. I am a senior engineer at a very very very reputable company. I know what I am talking about.

How is someone suppose to maintain the operation of a database without directly having access? I challenge you to answer that.

[MrCrank]

so much drama these days, what is up!

we know that investment moneypot (for some reason) has not bee the best for a long time. i watched it for a while when i wanted to invest and since i didn't see it as profitable i changed my mind. i never saw 400BTC or saw any deletion of posts or in general any shenanigan though. that is investment, some businesses are profitable and some aren't. learn to find the best to invest in, instead of making weird accusations.

there is also this topic here which had a public investment in moneypot and the OP of that thread stopped it since it wasn't going anywhere.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1585408.0

 I see betkink and crypto-games best for invest..
right?

[JackpotRacer]

So jpr, how am I suppose to develop and manage db structure, perform db maintence, etc if I don't have access?

I as a non coder know that it can be done and I am sure an experienced dev can explain it better than me

Jpr, clearly you do not know me. I am a senior engineer at a very very very reputable company. I know what I am talking about.

How is someone suppose to maintain the operation of a database without directly having access? I challenge you to answer that.

lets see if a dev has balls to chime in and explain it  to you


edit:
I found the following posting of a trusted member

a user posted this:
There have been sites scammed by their devs before, and it wasnt made public because the owners was too ashamed of trusting some dev they dont even know.

the trusted member answered:
Sites shouldn't give server access to their developers. Does MP? It seems kind of dangerous to trust a stranger with a million dollars of other people's money.

now my common sense is telling me that in case of MP or any other casino which should not give their devs access to the server (seeds) and the possibility to steal the BR that there must be an option for the devs to still do the work for MP or the casino.
please correct me if I am wrong! and if I am wrong I apologize to MP head dev CrazyCraig

[CrazyCraig]

lets see if a dev has balls to chime in and explain it  to you


edit:
I found the following posting of a trusted member

a user posted this:
There have been sites scammed by their devs before, and it wasnt made public because the owners was too ashamed of trusting some dev they dont even know.

the trusted member answered:
Sites shouldn't give server access to their developers. Does MP? It seems kind of dangerous to trust a stranger with a million dollars of other people's money.

now my common sense is telling me that in case of MP or any other casino which should not give their devs access to the server (seeds) and the possibility to steal the BR that there must be an option for the devs to still do the work for MP or the casino.
please correct me if I am wrong! and if I am wrong I apologize to MP head dev CrazyCraig

Jpr, I know that you are not a developer and are vaguely familiar with the industry.

Unfortunately, even a minimum wage job requires that an employer place some sort of trust in their employees. The job interview process exists to weed out untrustworthy and unfit candidates.

MoneyPot's industry is no different than the e-commerce organization's that I work at. Engineers are responsible for the creation and maintenance of the software, the implementation of the software, and the platforms that host that software.

If the owners of the e-commerce company that I work for were engineers, I wouldn't have a job. While they may have an understanding of how things work, they lack the technical skill to do what I do.

Development isn't as easy as deploy and go. As data is consumed, bugs are found, systems crash, and databases grow. As requests and users grow, performance is impacted. Its my job as an engineer to manage this and make sure everything plays nicely. That means at my full time job, I have theoretical access to personal data, credit information, and order information. I have to be trusted with that or I wouldn't be able to do my job.

In both situations, the programs and scripts that I write power the applications that my employers rely on. If I was to do something negligent, I wouldn't even need direct access to the database as I could do it behind the scenes through scripts. The MoneyPot ownership group has direct access to all of my scripts and operations. Database access is limited to DogeDigital and myself.

In MoneyPot's case, we have a system set up that logs every query into a UI that the owners can view. If an unrecognized query is detected through platform, we would know. We have permissions set on the various user accounts limiting access to certain operations. and have alerts deployed when servers are accessed.

In some cases, casino owners such as Douglus, Ryan, and Dean are technical and can manage their own platforms. That may not be exactly true for all, and thats why its important that they entrust developers as they focus on business operations.

I know that you as a casino owner haven't exactly had the best track record with developers. I understand that some may have screwed you and put a bad perception in your eyes. I'm sorry for this, but this goes back to my first point in this post: It is important to filter potential candidates.

In an effort to resolve our conflicts, I am more than willing to assist you in finding a confident developer and one that will help you going forward. Whether you go with Betking, Betbase, or on your own, you will need to learn how to place some sort of trust in your developer unless you have the knowledge to manage the systems that power your platform.

[JackpotRacer]

lets see if a dev has balls to chime in and explain it  to you


edit:
I found the following posting of a trusted member

a user posted this:
There have been sites scammed by their devs before, and it wasnt made public because the owners was too ashamed of trusting some dev they dont even know.

the trusted member answered:
Sites shouldn't give server access to their developers. Does MP? It seems kind of dangerous to trust a stranger with a million dollars of other people's money.

now my common sense is telling me that in case of MP or any other casino which should not give their devs access to the server (seeds) and the possibility to steal the BR that there must be an option for the devs to still do the work for MP or the casino.
please correct me if I am wrong! and if I am wrong I apologize to MP head dev CrazyCraig

Jpr, I know that you are not a developer and are vaguely familiar with the industry.

Unfortunately, even a minimum wage job requires that an employer place some sort of trust in their employees. The job interview process exists to weed out untrustworthy and unfit candidates.

MoneyPot's industry is no different than the e-commerce organization's that I work at. Engineers are responsible for the creation and maintenance of the software, the implementation of the software, and the platforms that host that software.

If the owners of the e-commerce company that I work for were engineers, I wouldn't have a job. While they may have an understanding of how things work, they lack the technical skill to do what I do.

Development isn't as easy as deploy and go. As data is consumed, bugs are found, systems crash, and databases grow. As requests and users grow, performance is impacted. Its my job as an engineer to manage this and make sure everything plays nicely. That means at my full time job, I have theoretical access to personal data, credit information, and order information. I have to be trusted with that or I wouldn't be able to do my job.

In both situations, the programs and scripts that I write power the applications that my employers rely on. If I was to do something negligent, I wouldn't even need direct access to the database as I could do it behind the scenes through scripts. The MoneyPot ownership group has direct access to all of my scripts and operations. Database access is limited to DogeDigital and myself.

In MoneyPot's case, we have a system set up that logs every query into a UI that the owners can view. If an unrecognized query is detected through platform, we would know. We have permissions set on the various user accounts limiting access to certain operations. and have alerts deployed when servers are accessed.

In some cases, casino owners such as Douglus, Ryan, and Dean are technical and can manage their own platforms. That may not be exactly true for all, and thats why its important that they entrust developers as they focus on business operations.

I know that you as a casino owner haven't exactly had the best track record with developers. I understand that some may have screwed you and put a bad perception in your eyes. I'm sorry for this, but this goes back to my first point in this post: It is important to filter potential candidates.

In an effort to resolve our conflicts, I am more than willing to assist you in finding a confident developer and one that will help you going forward. Whether you go with Betking, Betbase, or on your own, you will need to learn how to place some sort of trust in your developer unless you have the knowledge to manage the systems that power your platform.

thank you very much for your detailed and in depth answer very much appreciated and to be frank this is the way of answers I was always awaiting from any serious guy or businessman because every question has an answer especially in the BTC scene and therefore we love BTC

if I understood you right under the line it is TRUST and to be frank we dont trust and we also dont ask others to trust us. so we will always need a solution where trust is taken out.

is the statement of the trusted member correct or not? I mean can a dev work without server access? (does a way exist?)

the trusted member answered:
Sites shouldn't give server access to their developers. Does MP? It seems kind of dangerous to trust a stranger with a million dollars of other people's money.

please dont take my next question wrong cause we are looking for the fair play way. you and DD would be able to do a cheat as you both have full server access is that correct? ( I am not saying you do or did it)

In an effort to resolve our conflicts, I am more than willing to assist you in finding a confident developer and one that will help you going forward. Whether you go with Betking, Betbase, or on your own, you will need to learn how to place some sort of trust in your developer unless you have the knowledge to manage the systems that power your platform.

thank you again for the kind offer but we dont trust and this is the reason we will try to find a solution (for our own casino) where the dev will not have access to the important parts of the server where he could try a cheat. sadly we are to old to start to learn coding. I will wait till my grandson will be old enough

thx again

[JackpotRacer]

Moneypot was never intended to be solely a gaming site.  We have been working behind the scenes for a long time to expand beyond that.

It would not be possible to achieve what we want to achieve without CC having access.  He does much more than what just a gaming Dev would do. 

And please stop being lazy and pasting selective quotes.  They are just fallacies.  They do not apply to every situation.   

and again some unanswered questions

1st
is the statement of the trusted member correct or not? I mean can a dev work without server access? (does a way exist?)

the trusted member answered:
Sites shouldn't give server access to their developers. Does MP? It seems kind of dangerous to trust a stranger with a million dollars of other people's money.

2nd
please dont take my next question wrong cause we are looking for the fair play way. you and DD would be able to do a cheat as you both have full server access is that correct? ( I am not saying you do or did it)

isnt it interesting that all questions that are not comfortable for you guys are unanswered!!!

[JackpotRacer]

These are the selective quotes that I'm talking about. 

In order to make Moneypot what it is going to be, CC needs access.  It's been explained to you in other short reasons why as well.

I don't shy away from answering questions because of how 'tough' they are.  I have told you numerous times I'll answer all questions to you in PM and invited you to do so almost every chance I had.

I try not to respond to you because you constantly attack us and are unwilling to have a civil discussion or argument.

Yes, myself and CC could potentially cheat if we wanted to.  It would show up in the logs and we'd be outed and the other partners would probably press charges on us if we did, but yes it is possible.

I'm getting tired of your insinuations.  For the past few months, my hope was for the investment to be closer to expected equity than it is or was. 

We stand to lose more when players win than most people think.  We do not make enough in commission to make up for the losses that we have sustained being involved in the bankroll.

I told you a few times not to PM me and we can and should discuss all in public and you can show that MP is Transparent as all investors would like to see that MP is Transparent. but for this you would need to start to answer many open questions

here your PM and I will publish each PM of yours so please stop PMing me

Please realize there is a difference between suspicions of brand new created accounts re-iterating what you have repeatedly said and a member expressing his own opinion.

You said you don't want to be called a troll but you keep ignoring logic and sensibility.

I am 100% convinced you are trying to attack us by any means necessary even if it means relentlessly bending the truth. 

We don't mind users having an opinion.  It's their right.  We just don't want baseless comments and twisting of words.

I am here to have a long discussion and clear up your concerns. 

I don't have a problem with that.  You are so much better off focusing your energy on re-building your site than to repeatedly write libelous comments.

What's it going to take for you to stop?

We stand to lose more when players win than most people think.  We do not make enough in commission to make up for the losses that we have sustained being involved in the bankroll.

why not show us the numbers cause numbers are convincing and people dont need to think wrong

and that you are involved in the BR is on your own risk as any other investor with one difference that the investors are not partner of MP and cant enjoy the % you earn and that is ok cause it is your business and you should earn but you shouldnt be involved in the BR and you would be fine earning wise