How do you stop someone forcing you to hand over your private key and taking all

[BurtW]

This happened to me, sort of.  

But the thugs were not who you guys are all thinking about - in my case the thugs were the justice department and homeland security.

I was arrested, 30+ agents from 6 different agencies searched my house and my corporate offices, all of my computers were seized, all of my electronics were seized, my cell phone was seized.  They tore my entire house apart and did find where I had stored my seed words for my HD wallet.  Given that they were able to seize my Bitcoins.

OK, sure, you can say I made it too easy for them by having my HD wallet seed written down and hidden away where they were able to find it.  I am wiser now.  But are you expecting 30+ agents to search your entire house, crawl space, attic, etc. for an entire day?

Was that all of my Bitcoins? They thought not.

So, after one night in Denver county jail, at my kangaroo court bond hearing, the judge granted the federal government the maximum amount of time allowed by law that they could hold me before my bond hearing (6 more days in Federal prison) so they could try and locate all of my Bitcoins and other assets.

I was held in solitary confinement in a federal jail until my lawyer - $50,000 cash retainer to take the case, which my wife got by cashing in our retirement savings - was able to ague that I should get a bond hearing.  I did get out of solitary confinement after only three days.

THEN THE FUN STARTED

They were able to easily crack into all of my Windows machines but they were not able to crack into my Linux server.  So, they asked me for the password.

My attorney explained to me that if I did not give them the password then I could be held in contempt of court.  If you are sent to jail for contempt of court:

There is no time limit - they can keep you as long as it takes
There is no appeal
There is no getting out until you give them what they want

I my case since I had a great lawyer (total cost of the criminal and civil cases approx $250,000) so he was able to argue successfully and I never had to give them the password.

Now apply this to the password to your Bitcoin account, or your private keys.  If they know you have Bitcoins and they ask you for the private keys they can put you in jail until you give it to them, no appeal, no time limit.

These are the thugs you should be worried about.

[The One]

This happened to me, sort of.  

But the thugs were not who you guys are all thinking about - in my case the thugs were the justice department and homeland security.

I was arrested, 30+ agents from 6 different agencies searched my house and my corporate offices, all of my computers were seized, all of my electronics were seized, my cell phone was seized.  They tore my entire house apart and did find where I had stored my seed words for my HD wallet.  Given that they were able to seize my Bitcoins.

OK, sure, you can say I made it too easy for them by having my HD wallet seed written down and hidden away where they were able to find it.  I am wiser now.  But are you expecting 30+ agents to search your entire house, crawl space, attic, etc. for an entire day?

Was that all of my Bitcoins? They thought not.

So, after one night in Denver county jail, at my kangaroo court bond hearing, the judge granted the federal government the maximum amount of time allowed by law that they could hold me before my bond hearing (6 more days in Federal prison) so they could try and locate all of my Bitcoins and other assets.

I was held in solitary confinement in a federal jail until my lawyer - $50,000 cash retainer to take the case, which my wife got by cashing in our retirement savings - was able to ague that I should get a bond hearing.  I did get out of solitary confinement after only three days.

THEN THE FUN STARTED

They were able to easily crack into all of my Windows machines but they were not able to crack into my Linux server.  So, they asked me for the password.

My attorney explained to me that if I did not give them the password then I could be held in contempt of court.  If you are sent to jail for contempt of court:

There is no time limit - they can keep you as long as it takes
There is no appeal
There is no getting out until you give them what they want

I my case since I had a great lawyer (total cost of the criminal and civil cases approx $250,000) so he was able to argue successfully and I never had to give them the password.

Now apply this to the password to your Bitcoin account, or your private keys.  If they know you have Bitcoins and they ask you for the private keys they can put you in jail until you give it to them, no appeal, no time limit.

These are the thugs you should be worried about.

Why were they after you and did you get your BTC back?

[BurtW]

Why were they after you and did you get your BTC back?

You can read all about it at my wife's and my web sites here:

http://www.jmwagner.com/
http://www.burtw.com/

I was arrested for trading Bitcoins on localbitcoins.com without a license.  Official charge:  operating a money transmittal business without a license.

In the end they dropped all the criminal charges against me, dropped all the civil charges against the seized assets (including my Bitcoins), kept $80,000 in cash and Bitcoins for the federal asset forfeiture fund - to be used by the justice department and homeland security to fund future operations, and gave me back the rest.

I have given many talks to various organizations since this happened to me.  I have two upcoming talks in the Denver area.  You are invited to join us if you are interested:

http://www.burtw.com/speaking-schedule.html

Be sure to check out the link on that page to John Oliver's expose on civil asset forfeiture.  It explains a lot about why I and so many others are targeted: money to fund their operations.

[awesome31312]

Have a fake private key just in case, lol.

[BurtW]

Have a fake private key just in case, lol.

lol it up buddy until it happens to you.

[stompix]

They can't make me, I do not memorize my private keys and they cannot make me give them my private keys. Not over my dead body. It is stored somewhere safe and even if they take my phone or laptop, they cannot find my main wallet in there.

A lot of guys here that think people can't make them talk.
But we talk about the real world , not bitcointalk second life:).

Trust me, not even 1% of the people in this world would be able to endure at least 1 hour of real torture.
You're going to tell your captors even the number of times you missed the toilet;).

You are really dumb if you will give away your private key from someone.There is a reason why is it called a "private key" for you to keep it by yourself because you own it.Even  if you are being forced why would you give it then.Having a dummy wallets will help you to get more secure if they force to get the private key from you

When somebody starts cutting your fingers, it won't be that dumb to start talking private keys;)

Learn Jiu Jitsu, Sistema, Krav Maga and Kyusho, buy yourself a set of reliable guns that you can hide on strategic points in your house, update your house security to paranoid level, buy yourself a small army, if that doesn't help convince your attackers that your army will get after every of their family members, friends and colleagues, if they continue to torture you.

I like that part about buying yourself an army.
Probably wit will cost you all your coins.

[The One]

Why were they after you and did you get your BTC back?

You can read all about it at my wife's and my web sites here:

http://www.jmwagner.com/
http://www.burtw.com/

I was arrested for trading Bitcoins on localbitcoins.com without a license.  Official charge:  operating a money transmittal business without a license.

In the end they dropped all the criminal charges against me, dropped all the civil charges against the seized assets (including my Bitcoins), kept $80,000 in cash and Bitcoins for the federal asset forfeiture fund - to be used by the justice department and homeland security to fund future operations, and gave me back the rest.

I have given many talks to various organizations since this happened to me.  I have two upcoming talks in the Denver area.  You are invited to join us if you are interested:

http://www.burtw.com/speaking-schedule.html

Be sure to check out the link on that page to John Oliver's expose on civil asset forfeiture.  It explains a lot about why I and so many others are targeted: money to fund their operations.

If all charges were dropped then how can they keep some assets back. What happened to the constitution. Called due process.

[BurtW]

Why were they after you and did you get your BTC back?

You can read all about it at my wife's and my web sites here:

http://www.jmwagner.com/
http://www.burtw.com/

I was arrested for trading Bitcoins on localbitcoins.com without a license.  Official charge:  operating a money transmittal business without a license.

In the end they dropped all the criminal charges against me, dropped all the civil charges against the seized assets (including my Bitcoins), kept $80,000 in cash and Bitcoins for the federal asset forfeiture fund - to be used by the justice department and homeland security to fund future operations, and gave me back the rest.

I have given many talks to various organizations since this happened to me.  I have two upcoming talks in the Denver area.  You are invited to join us if you are interested:

http://www.burtw.com/speaking-schedule.html

Be sure to check out the link on that page to John Oliver's expose on civil asset forfeiture.  It explains a lot about why I and so many others are targeted: money to fund their operations.

If all charges were dropped then how can they keep some assets back. What happened to the constitution. Called due process.

Watch the John Oliver explanation of Civil Asset Forfeiture and then you will know more about what happened to the constitution, due process, and a boatload of other myths and legends you currently believe.

I will give you a real world example:

Everyone has see the reading of the Miranda rights on TV cop shows at least 10,000 times.

When I was arrested I was handed a clipboard and a pen and the homeland security agent simply said "here, sign this".  I took a quick look and it was a waiver of all Miranda rights.  That was it.  No "you have the right..." like you see on TV - NONE.  I refused to sign.  He immediately took everything he was going to share with me - including the reason I was being arrested - off the table.

I was not told why I was being arrested until after having spent 24 hours in the Denver county jail.

Wake up from your sweet cultural hallucinations of "constitution", "due process" and "rights".

[The One]

Why were they after you and did you get your BTC back?

You can read all about it at my wife's and my web sites here:

http://www.jmwagner.com/
http://www.burtw.com/

I was arrested for trading Bitcoins on localbitcoins.com without a license.  Official charge:  operating a money transmittal business without a license.

In the end they dropped all the criminal charges against me, dropped all the civil charges against the seized assets (including my Bitcoins), kept $80,000 in cash and Bitcoins for the federal asset forfeiture fund - to be used by the justice department and homeland security to fund future operations, and gave me back the rest.

I have given many talks to various organizations since this happened to me.  I have two upcoming talks in the Denver area.  You are invited to join us if you are interested:

http://www.burtw.com/speaking-schedule.html

Be sure to check out the link on that page to John Oliver's expose on civil asset forfeiture.  It explains a lot about why I and so many others are targeted: money to fund their operations.

If all charges were dropped then how can they keep some assets back. What happened to the constitution. Called due process.

Watch the John Oliver explanation of Civil Asset Forfeiture and then you will know more about what happened to the constitution, due process, and a boatload of other myths and legends you currently believe.

I will give you a real world example:

Everyone has see the reading of the Miranda rights on TV cop shows at least 10,000 times.

When I was arrested I was handed a clipboard and a pen and the homeland security agent simply said "here, sign this".  I took a quick look and it was a waiver of all Miranda rights.  That was it.  No "you have the right..." like you see on TV - NONE.  I refused to sign.  He immediately took everything he was going to share with me - including the reason I was being arrested - off the table.

I was not told why I was being arrested until after having spent 24 hours in the Denver county jail.

Wake up from your sweet cultural hallucinations of "constitution", "due process" and "rights".

I'm sorry but i'm not an american... this doesn't happen in my country. Forfeiture is only done after a criminal is found guilty and can only take the assets funded by the said crime.

[Zicadis]

Have a fake private key just in case, lol.

definitely a good idea but when something like this has not happened to you...there is no time for a contingency plan like fake private key or rather a dummy private key to hand over.

If something like this were to happen I would cooperate and give them whatever they wanted and not try be the hero

[awesome31312]

Have a fake private key just in case, lol.

definitely a good idea but when something like this has not happened to you...there is no time for a contingency plan like fake private key or rather a dummy private key to hand over.

If something like this were to happen I would cooperate and give them whatever they wanted and not try be the hero

It is a highly unlikely scenario, most criminals will not hold you up for more than 15-20 minutes, to account for police patrol

[BitFinnese]

You are really dumb if you will give away your private key from someone.There is a reason why is it called a "private key" for you to keep it by yourself because you own it.Even  if you are being forced why would you give it then.Having a dummy wallets will help you to get more secure if they force to get the private key from you

Well if it is a matter of life and death situation, you cannot save your Bitcoin unless you are insane enough to choose your Bitcoin than your or any of your family's life.  If this is the case, there is no other way but to give your BTC if you value life.  Giving a dummy wallet will only get you into trouble.  Besides I am sure they already knew your main address that is why they are getting your private key from you by force.  Though I wonder why private key and not just send the BTC to their own address.

[PokerFace3]

One thing I have thought about is that with bitcoin, someone could force you to hand over your private key. What sort of safeguards are there to prevent this happening, or to prevent them taking everything in that wallet?
One thing one can do is leave Bitcoins on an exchange that will only allow you to withdraw $1000 worth per day, but then you run the risk of the exchange being hacked....what are the other options?

There are ways to be able to use a digital key consisting of numbers and letters and only subconsciously know it enabling you to not be able to tell it to someone even if you want to but other wise there is no reason or way to do this. You would have the same problem with regular fiat currency too if someone forced you to tell them your bank username and password or even your social number

[BurtW]

Why were they after you and did you get your BTC back?

You can read all about it at my wife's and my web sites here:

http://www.jmwagner.com/
http://www.burtw.com/

I was arrested for trading Bitcoins on localbitcoins.com without a license.  Official charge:  operating a money transmittal business without a license.

In the end they dropped all the criminal charges against me, dropped all the civil charges against the seized assets (including my Bitcoins), kept $80,000 in cash and Bitcoins for the federal asset forfeiture fund - to be used by the justice department and homeland security to fund future operations, and gave me back the rest.

I have given many talks to various organizations since this happened to me.  I have two upcoming talks in the Denver area.  You are invited to join us if you are interested:

http://www.burtw.com/speaking-schedule.html

Be sure to check out the link on that page to John Oliver's expose on civil asset forfeiture.  It explains a lot about why I and so many others are targeted: money to fund their operations.

If all charges were dropped then how can they keep some assets back. What happened to the constitution. Called due process.

Watch the John Oliver explanation of Civil Asset Forfeiture and then you will know more about what happened to the constitution, due process, and a boatload of other myths and legends you currently believe.

I will give you a real world example:

Everyone has see the reading of the Miranda rights on TV cop shows at least 10,000 times.

When I was arrested I was handed a clipboard and a pen and the homeland security agent simply said "here, sign this".  I took a quick look and it was a waiver of all Miranda rights.  That was it.  No "you have the right..." like you see on TV - NONE.  I refused to sign.  He immediately took everything he was going to share with me - including the reason I was being arrested - off the table.

I was not told why I was being arrested until after having spent 24 hours in the Denver county jail.

Wake up from your sweet cultural hallucinations of "constitution", "due process" and "rights".

I'm sorry but i'm not an american... this doesn't happen in my country. Forfeiture is only done after a criminal is found guilty and can only take the assets funded by the said crime.

What country is that?  I am looking for a new one.

[d.kevin29]

First of all, I don't see how can someone ever know that you own a certain BTC address. And in case someone does, this is what I have done:

Create a cold wallet and ENCRYPT IT with the a word you've used the most before, or the most common password you've ever used for an account.. like a password that you used to have in your childhood. Print over 4 copies and place each of them in a different location. If a thief comes and forces you to give them your private key, they would be able to do nothing with it because it's going to be encrypted.

OR, don't encrypt it and do the following: print one paper wallet and store your money there. Then open photoshop and edit the private key - change it to a fake one. This way, the thief won't know it's fake.

[sikke]

First of all, I don't see how can someone ever know that you own a certain BTC address. And in case someone does, this is what I have done:

Create a cold wallet and ENCRYPT IT with the a word you've used the most before, or the most common password you've ever used for an account.. like a password that you used to have in your childhood. Print over 4 copies and place each of them in a different location. If a thief comes and forces you to give them your private key, they would be able to do nothing with it because it's going to be encrypted.

OR, don't encrypt it and do the following: print one paper wallet and store your money there. Then open photoshop and edit the private key - change it to a fake one. This way, the thief won't know it's fake.

I think that OP was meaning the situation when someone knows your BTC address, and he is aware of that you have some bitcoins stored.
But I think that in most cases, there is no possibility in someone can deduct or get your bitcoin address without some kind of browser history, or transactions list, unless you use desktop wallet which only asks for password when sending a transaction- then someone obviously might get your bitcoins without big effort.

If you encrypt the paper wallet correctly, it is extremely hard to break it, for example you may collect even 0.5 bitcoin for completing such a task.
This is the URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4dkw1q/no_one_cracked_05btc_paperwallet_with_easy/

[The_Dark_Knight]

How are they going to force you hand over your private key? Are they going to point a gun to your face and make you recite your private key?

I mean if someone learns you are into bitcoin, and suspects or knows you have some coins.

That still doe’s not tell to us how they are going to force you to give your bitcoin are they threaten you with physical violence?, are they blackmailing you? People know I’m into bitcoin and no one ever has tried to extort bitcoins out of me, since I don’t tell people how much or how little I have.

[anonymoustroll420]

I'm sorry but i'm not an american... this doesn't happen in my country. Forfeiture is only done after a criminal is found guilty and can only take the assets funded by the said crime.

If you live in most countries in Europe, thats not the case... all brang in to take money from "drug lords".

[darkangel11]

I'm sorry but i'm not an american... this doesn't happen in my country. Forfeiture is only done after a criminal is found guilty and can only take the assets funded by the said crime.

What country is that?  I am looking for a new one.

I read your story and I can tell you that it wouldn't happen to you in the EU. Not only because you don't need any money transmitting permits here to trade Bitcoins, but also because Bitcoins aren't treated like money but like stocks or collectibles. Also the law here usually focuses on whether your actions caused harm to someone. If you didn't have a required permit and the social danger of your actions was minor, you'd just be fined and they'd never ask you for your private keys or wallet passwords.

[687_2]

One thing I have thought about is that with bitcoin, someone could force you to hand over your private key. What sort of safeguards are there to prevent this happening, or to prevent them taking everything in that wallet?
One thing one can do is leave Bitcoins on an exchange that will only allow you to withdraw $1000 worth per day, but then you run the risk of the exchange being hacked....what are the other options?

Trezor blog has a step by step guide for just this scenario:

https://blog.trezor.io/hide-your-trezor-wallets-with-multiple-passphrases-f2e0834026eb