Is BitFUnix and the Tether dollar USDT about to crash the Bitcoin market?

[iamnotback]

Is BitFUnix and the Tether dollar USDT about to crash the Bitcoin market?

Re: BTC doing good after this big dump

The floor is really around $1050-1100 right now and it's unlikely to break that due to the strong resistance in the market.

We went from $1200 to $1165, it's staying up nicely, so we must hope that we don't go below $1100 and I think we are reasonably ok and good to go for the next $1300 test.

Just like what others said, I don't go for it that it was a big dump. It's only a very small fluctuation compare to what happened from the past like Mt.Gox and with the BTU drama.The price right now is at $1,199 on preev and it will keep on moving and stable at that rate. We'll see that $1,300 very soon.  

as far as I know a correction shouldn't be sharp. it is usually a slower drop. the sharp dips usually show some kind of manipulation and followed by panic sell. mostly starting with the expectation of a drop (in this case the SegWit drama by F2Pool) and then weak hands jump.

Expect some event to serve as a distraction from the Scalepocalyspe reality that we are enslaved by the shadow elite.

This market is flat out fraud.  $30 $41 spread between Finex and Bitstamp.  Since we all know Bitfinex is an insolvent exchange that trades against it's own customers and also steals their money, I'm guessing that spread is also propped up by non-existent money just like Gox.  Why are people willing to put up a $2 million buy wall on Bitfinex but no other exchange to try and prop up price?  Because Bitfinex probably isn't even using real money, just imaginary exchange digits.  

I've been saying BitFinex is the new Gox forever and here it is.  There is no valid price of bitcoin as long as Bitfinex is the market maker.

The current chart looks like shit and is forming a down channel and you got fraudsters on Bitfinex trying to manipulate it up with imaginary money that probably doesn't exist:

BitFUnix has probably been paying off old thefts with new Ponzi money incoming per recent news.

Making excuses about not being able to make wire transfers.

Also note that Tether was involved in that lawsuit, so perhaps USDT token is also not safe to hold:

Court records show that yesterday, lawyers for the plaintiffs – iFinex (the owner and operator of the exchange), its two British Virgin Islands-based subsidiaries and digital asset transfer firm Tether – filed a notice of voluntary dismissal in the US District Court for the Northern District of California.

The reason for the 2 - 3% discrepancy between BitFUnix/Poloniex and Bitstamp is because the former at quoting in USDT, which is the Tether dollar. The market believes the Tether dollar is worth 2 - 3% less than the real US dollar.

You can rest assured that Tether dollars are a private fractional reserve system. The list of those who can redeem USDT for real US dollars is controlled by Tether, so they can prevent a run on the bank. If the market ever senses that the USDT is not backed by anything or is in danger of being regulated non-compliant for exchanges, then all those holding USDT would probably see the value of their USDT go "proof, and it's gone". I am suspecting that the way BitFUnix has remained afloat is by scheming with those who created Tether so they get a kickback for using USDT instead of actual dollars on their exchange. Ditto perhaps Poloniex. The collapse of USDT could cause another flash crash to Bitcoin.

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[manselr]

r0ach sees a downtrend because he became a bitcoin hater after getting caught in a bad trade, but I still see an uptrend if we draw other lines. You can draw any lines you want to fit you expectations.
I think uptrend is clear. I dont want to move to USD and tell banks I own BTC so I will hold any dips.

[BrewMaster]

my understanding is that you have joined the FUD team against bitcoin. maybe a temporary phase but that is what's happening in my opinion.

bitcoin price is not gonna drop unless bitfinex runs away. which is not at all likely. if they wanted to run away they would have done it after the hack not now. not after they paid their users back.
even if they run away, it will be a short drop exactly like when their exchange platform was hacked and price dropped.

[iamnotback]

my understanding is that you have joined the FUD team against bitcoin. maybe a temporary phase but that is what's happening in my opinion.

Raising a legitimate concern and phrasing it as a question is FUD 

bitcoin price is not gonna drop unless bitfinex runs away. which is not at all likely. if they wanted to run away they would have done it after the hack not now. not after they paid their users back.
even if they run away, it will be a short drop exactly like when their exchange platform was hacked and price dropped.

Famous last words. How can you know what Bitfinex is doing? How can you know what the true reserves of Tether's USDT really are?

Did you not click the links in the OP about the recent news stories?

[tunctioncloud]

I do not think they are about to crash the Bitcoin price for the sole reason that you are putting both of them in the same answer. Because while I see some potential troubles coming with Bitfinex, I see absolutely none with Tether.

And even about Bitfinex, I have some doubts. They would not "crash" the market, but instead would maybe create a small drop in value, of about 100$, in case they run away. Which seems doubtful to me.

[iamnotback]

r0ach sees a downtrend because he became a bitcoin hater after getting caught in a bad trade, but I still see an uptrend if we draw other lines. You can draw any lines you want to fit you expectations.

Show me. Using TradingView.com please to make a accurate chart.

I think uptrend is clear. I dont want to move to USD and tell banks I own BTC so I will hold any dips.

I don't either. Holding a 30% dip leaves a lot of BTC that could be had, on the table.

That is why so many traders are using USDT, so that means it is huge centralized vulnerability in the Bitcoin ecosystem! Even more huge than Bitfinex. On par with Mt. Gox.

And even about Bitfinex, I have some doubts. They would not "crash" the market, but instead would maybe create a small drop in value, of about 100$, in case they run away. Which seems doubtful to me.

USDT is used on Poloniex also! The Bitfinex hack caused a -33% crash. Mt. Gox caused a -90% crash.

I would guess maybe a USDT failure will come later when BTC is at nosebleed prices again. Perhaps not enough Bitcoiners use USDT yet, so give it more time to become more widely used.

[tunctioncloud]

And even about Bitfinex, I have some doubts. They would not "crash" the market, but instead would maybe create a small drop in value, of about 100$, in case they run away. Which seems doubtful to me.

USDT is used on Poloniex also!

Yes, but for several reasons it does not frighten me, even though I am a rather active trader on Poloniex.
- Poloniex is known as an altcoin exchange, and people trading USDT there are only doing it to diversify to Bitcoin, not the inverse. That it why the USDT market is so little on Poloniex.
- As I said, it is quite little, and not very exposed. Few people use it and the volume is small compared to the rest of the site.
- It would ruin only people using USDT, and it would probably not taint Poloniex's reputation since the fault would be rejected on Tether. Moreover, Bitcoin market price not being made at Poloniex, the collateral effect would be very small I guess.

[BrewMaster]

Famous last words. How can you know what Bitfinex is doing? How can you know what the true reserves of Tether's USDT really are?

How can you know what is bitstamp doing?
How about Kraken?
How about the biggest altcoin exchange out there, Poloniex?

Did you not click the links in the OP about the recent news stories?

I am well aware of the news, their bank, the withdrawal, ... that is why I said what I said.

The risks, that you are raising today is a drama and nothing more. because nothing has changed in the past 6 or so years with bitcoin exchanges. they are still the same shady businesses that can run away at any moment.

the question is why spread the drama now?

[iamnotback]

Famous last words. How can you know what Bitfinex is doing? How can you know what the true reserves of Tether's USDT really are?

How can you know what is bitstamp doing?
How about Kraken?
How about the biggest altcoin exchange out there, Poloniex?

I already told you that Poloniex does all trades to USD in USDT. Go to Poloniex and look for yourself if you don't believe me.

Those other exchanges don't apparently use USDT by default. But Bitfinex and Poloniex do, so that is a lot of speculator money that could go poof if USDT is ever found to be fraud. Speculators would refuse to buy USDT, so its value would plummet.

Did you not click the links in the OP about the recent news stories?

I am well aware of the news, their bank, the withdrawal, ... that is why I said what I said.

Which news are you referring to specifically and do you know how it applies to what I wrote in the OP? Explain your understanding.

The risks, that you are raising today is a drama and nothing more. because nothing has changed in the past 6 or so years with bitcoin exchanges. they are still the same shady businesses that can run away at any moment.

the question is why spread the drama now?

Because Bitfinex is making news that they can pay back the former thefts which no one thought to be mathematically possible, so it means that Bitfinex is trying to raise confidence so more people will put their money there, so it indicates they need money. It also indicates they stole the money from Peter to pay Paul. The likely source of the money is perhaps coming from printing USDT out-of-thin-air.

And the news about Wells Fargo blocking their wire transfers is another warning sign that a default is developing.

You malign me, because you don't see the connections. Ostensibly because you aren't so astute or you have an agenda against me.

[iamnotback]

And even about Bitfinex, I have some doubts. They would not "crash" the market, but instead would maybe create a small drop in value, of about 100$, in case they run away. Which seems doubtful to me.

USDT is used on Poloniex also!

Yes, but for several reasons it does not frighten me, even though I am a rather active trader on Poloniex.
- Poloniex is known as an altcoin exchange, and people trading USDT there are only doing it to diversify to Bitcoin, not the inverse. That it why the USDT market is so little on Poloniex.
- As I said, it is quite little, and not very exposed. Few people use it and the volume is small compared to the rest of the site.
- It would ruin only people using USDT, and it would probably not taint Poloniex's reputation since the fault would be rejected on Tether. Moreover, Bitcoin market price not being made at Poloniex, the collateral effect would be very small I guess.

As I wrote, perhaps we need to wait a while before USDT is more widely used until a default might occur. This timing is one issue I wanted to discuss.

How can you view the volume of USDT on Poloniex?

Sure you know the answer, since you have stated the volume is low.

[BrewMaster]

You malign me, because you don't see the connections. Because you aren't so astute.

in that case i am ending this argument here since i am too dumb (according to you) and too lazy to open thesaurus.
good day.

[iamnotback]

You malign me, because you don't see the connections. Ostensibly because you aren't so astute or you have an agenda against me.

in that case i am ending this argument here since i am too dumb (according to you) and too lazy to open thesaurus.
good day.

The thread is intended to be a discussion, not an argument. You made it personal by maligning me. It is possible to state your ideas or opinions without impugning the other.

There you go again dropping implied insults by insinuating that I use a Thesaurus.

I am still waiting to read your cogent explanations. I doubt they will be forthcoming.

More logic, more facts, more real work, less useless unproductive elbows and acrimony.

[Instamined]

https://wallet.tether.to/transparency

That link purportedly shows the total balance of all tether.to holdings.

[iamnotback]

https://wallet.tether.to/transparency

That link purportedly shows the total balance of all tether.to holdings.

Yes I had seen that. So $54 million compared to the $70 million lost in the Bitfinex incident.

However, given USDT is backing store for two exchanges, one might contemplate how it might impact margin trading and whether it could cause a cascade of forced liquidations that would exceed the reserves in the system. In other words, the 2.5x leverage in Poloniex is actually fractional reserves if the markets move too fast.

I haven't figured it all out yet.

But it may be a smoldering problem that isn't yet ready to strike.

[alani123]

Of course not. tUSD and whatever else peg are separate entities from bitcoin and the way they pave has close to no effect on bitcoin's longlivity, as well as its markets. If they were to go through a rough patch, certainly people would lose money through those trust based systems but bitcoin markets unnafected by them would survive and outlast them. 

[iamnotback]

Of course not. tUSD and whatever else peg are separate entities from bitcoin and the way they pave has close to no effect on bitcoin's longlivity, as well as its markets. If they were to go through a rough patch, certainly people would lose money through those trust based systems but bitcoin markets unnafected by them would survive and outlast them.  

Why do you say that if $54 million of Bitcoin investors' (speculators') money was "poof, it's gone", that Bitcoin's price wouldn't crash?

The Bitfinex hack caused a -33% crash. Mt. Gox caused a -90% crash.

So $54 million compared to the $70 million lost in the Bitfinex incident.

However, given USDT is backing store for two exchanges, one might contemplate how it might impact margin trading and whether it could cause a cascade of forced liquidations that would exceed the reserves in the system. In other words, the 2.5x leverage in Poloniex is actually fractional reserves if the markets move too fast.

[miscreanity]

Because Bitfinex is making news that they can pay back the former thefts which no one thought to be mathematically possible, so it means that Bitfinex is trying to raise confidence so more people will put their money there, so it indicates they need money. It also indicates they stole the money from Peter to pay Paul. The likely source of the money is perhaps coming from printing USDT out-of-thin-air.

The conversion of BFX tokens to shares of Bitfinex completed and was the catalyst for full token redemption on the exchange. Interestingly, the amount of capital raised is 54513657[1]. This number is quite close to the total authorized line and, since Bitfinex is associated, I have to wonder whether there's any connection.

I've been opposed to the idea of a pegged unit well before Coinapult had its "locks" and still view such a system with suspicion for anything beyond very short-term utilization.

[1] https://bnktothefuture.com/search/pitches

[tunctioncloud]

And even about Bitfinex, I have some doubts. They would not "crash" the market, but instead would maybe create a small drop in value, of about 100$, in case they run away. Which seems doubtful to me.

USDT is used on Poloniex also!

Yes, but for several reasons it does not frighten me, even though I am a rather active trader on Poloniex.
- Poloniex is known as an altcoin exchange, and people trading USDT there are only doing it to diversify to Bitcoin, not the inverse. That it why the USDT market is so little on Poloniex.
- As I said, it is quite little, and not very exposed. Few people use it and the volume is small compared to the rest of the site.
- It would ruin only people using USDT, and it would probably not taint Poloniex's reputation since the fault would be rejected on Tether. Moreover, Bitcoin market price not being made at Poloniex, the collateral effect would be very small I guess.

As I wrote, perhaps we need to wait a while before USDT is more widely used until a default might occur. This timing is one issue I wanted to discuss.

How can you view the volume of USDT on Poloniex?

Sure you know the answer, since you have stated the volume is low.

You view it by going on Poloniex page, in the very top bottom, there is the daily volume in all the currencies, including USDT, which today is 9 973 707 USDT. I did not say that it was low, but low compared to the rest of the site, since there has been in the meantime a volume of 65 483BTC, which is worth 78 250 000$, a lot more.

[BillyBobZorton]

Bitcoin will go $2000 this year or 2018, Kim Dotom will release Bitcache and Megaupload 2.0 and it will be a mainstream success, this will hype up the price to $2000 for sure. Can't risk a future moon ticket trying to short the market so I will stay as I am now. I have holded thought worse crashes.

[numismatist]

Bitcoin will go $2000 this year or 2018, Kim Dotom will release Bitcache and Megaupload 2.0 and it will be a mainstream success, this will hype up the price to $2000 for sure. Can't risk a future moon ticket trying to short the market so I will stay as I am now. I have holded thought worse crashes.

Which crash where? We are at $1200

Tehter numbers, they reduced their marketcap for the first time, and like -10% just to go up now again on a new ATH.