Keiser said Bitcoin Foundation should run Bitcoin and set the price

[lophie]

if anyone actually follows max keiser, they would know most comments about giving a sole entity control, is where he is being sarcastic.

he is also making an exchange himself. for the UK pound to flow freely instead of having the dollar control over bitcoin.

so treat the statement of keiser saying allow the foundation fix prices as a sarcastic comment

This makes sense. I followed max enough to know he ain't going to write that and actually mean it!

[TsuyokuNaritai]

Bitcoin price is already set by a Japanese corporation.

It's at the mercy of them, it's not set by them.

Bitcoin price should be set by a mathematical algorithm as a layer on the protocol.

[cbeast]

Bitcoin price is already set by a Japanese corporation.

It's at the mercy of them, it's not set by them.

Bitcoin price should be set by a mathematical algorithm as a layer on the protocol.

It's basic statistics. Use groups of exchanges and groups of transactions. It's simply a math based fiat pegged to the currencies it is traded in.

[grondilu]

It's basic statistics. Use groups of exchanges and groups of transactions. It's simply a math based fiat pegged to the currencies it is traded in.

That could give you a number to which you think it would be good if the price of one bitcoin would be close to.  But how do you plan on making the actual price closer to this number?  You can't really control the price unless you control the amount, either by creating bitcoins or the other currencies at will, or owning a huge bunch of them.

[grondilu]

The price has been volatile lately because of a Panurge sheep style behavior induced by mimetic journalism on TV and other mass media.

It's not bitcoin which is at fault.  It's the obsolete centralized information system.

[cbeast]

It's basic statistics. Use groups of exchanges and groups of transactions. It's simply a math based fiat pegged to the currencies it is traded in.

That could give you a number to which you think it would be good if the price of one bitcoin would be close to.  But how do you plan on making the actual price closer to this number?  You can't really control the price unless you control the amount, either by creating bitcoins or the other currencies at will, or owning a huge bunch of them.

You would not use that price for trading, it would be a useful average price for business using a decentralized algo rather than a separate service. The price could be encoded into the most recent block. Mainly this would have a strong psychological effect on price stability.

[johnyj]

To peg a currency exchange rate, you must be able to buy when there are lots of seller, means you need to have a huge amount of USD reserve. And you should be able to sell when there are lots of buyer, means you need to have a huge amount of local currency when needed

China have a USD reserve of more than one trillion, and they can produce RMB as wish, that's the basic requirement to keep a currency peg

[cbeast]

To peg a currency exchange rate, you must be able to buy when there are lots of seller, means you need to have a huge amount of USD reserve. And you should be able to sell when there are lots of buyer, means you need to have a huge amount of local currency when needed

China have a USD reserve of more than one trillion, and they can produce RMB as wish, that's the basic requirement to keep a currency peg

That would be a sovereign fiat currency peg. Bitcoin is a decentralized currency that replaces the sovereign with math. A decentralized peg can also replace the sovereign with math.

[mobile4ever]

He says Bitcoin Foundation should take over Bitcoin and set the exchange rate.  


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-keiser/should-bitcoin-peg-itself_b_3160783.html

Quick answer: NO

[wumpus]

That'd be bat-shit crazy. Even powerful communist governments were not able to set prices in stone and prevent them from shifting relative to each other depending on actual world realities.
You can be assured that this will never happen.

[Transisto]

Didn't read, but if he mean moving the decimal to account for USD value, it's not a bad idea.

I would be OK moving the value of a BTC to 1.2$ if price stay stable in the 1200$ range. (1000:1 split)

I think Bitcoin is too new to bother about this in the xxx$ range.

[Lethn]

Go fuck yourself Bitcoin Foundation, I refuse to allow another central bank to form while I can do something about it.

[grondilu]

You would not use that price for trading, it would be a useful average price for business using a decentralized algo rather than a separate service. The price could be encoded into the most recent block. Mainly this would have a strong psychological effect on price stability.

Writing a price on something is pointless.   Prices emerge from markets:  offer and demand.   Not from a numerical label you put on something.

If I write 10$ on a one once gold coin, it does not mean I can actually buy it for 10$.

The coin analogy is actually very accurate.  In numismatics, there is what we call the "facial value".   Often states mint precious metal coins and they try to give them an official value by writing an amount in fiat currency on it.



Usually when the coin is created, the facial value is close to the gold value, but very soon the facial value becomes obsolete and nobody pays much attention to it.   Try to buy the above coin for 50$, for instance.

It's not just because of the former gold standard in US.  Recently in Europe they tried to do something like that with euro gold coins.  They emitted some at a facial value that was only slightly higher than the price in gold at the time.  Since then the price of gold has increased and the facial value is now just a silly number on a coin.  That's what a facial value is:  just a number that does not mean much.



What you are suggesting is to put a facial value on a bitcoin block.  It's very silly and I would certainly not run a bitcoin fork that would do that.

[Bitcoinpro]

He says Bitcoin Foundation should take over Bitcoin and set the exchange rate.  


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-keiser/should-bitcoin-peg-itself_b_3160783.html

Keiser lol 

[Its About Sharing]

I think Max knows that FINCEN is taking aim at bitcoin and that they will deal it a very serious blow.  News of the arrests will crash the price to below $10 for a long time as all the giddy kiddies and pro-establishment pussies wet their pants and bail out in fear.  (Just observe how many people on these forums are just DYING to pay their taxes to the U.S. mafia).

After that, bitcoin will stay down for a long while and its price will climb very slowly over years as it is taken up by foreigners who thumb their noses at the U.S. imperialists and those brave westerners who know how to cover their tracks.  Government is, and always has been, the biggest threat to this experiment.  Government is the biggest threat to everything.

I listened to the podcast "Let's Talk Bitcoin! Episode 1" which featured Bradley Jansen of FreeBanking.org who talked all about FINCEN.  There IS a train wreck coming.  I encourage any of you to check it out.

You have to ask yourself a serious question here:

Do you really think that the global financial system is going to get better? It looks like other countries are coming home to roost Cypress style. (e.g. Take you pick of Ireland, Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal and the USD/bond market is very very very close behind.)

I think that by the time they get to bitcoin the preceding will be in full effect. And Bitcoin will be the least of their problems and rather a partial solution that the masses will have already been moving to. You want to try to stop that? Maybe the US government can but by this time it won't matter if the US is a player or not as there are only 11 million shares right now. Think about that...

But I really don't know, we are all pioneers in this and knowingly taking a chance.

IAS

[jdbtracker]

My simple solution to this perceived problem is to simply encourage the adoption of cBTC or some other SMALLER unit as the standard unit referred to in exchange rather than the full bitcoin. This way you just change the scale of the exchange rate, thus changing the public perception.

So then, for example, today's price would be expressed as $1.35 cBTC. And it would stay in that small relatable scale until 1 BTC hit $1,000. Then that previously scary price would be represented as $10.00 cBTC, which seems like a relative pittance.

Switching over to millibits would probably be even better. Today's price would be $.135 mBTC.

Bitcoin is a *very* limited issue. Think about how small 21 million units is for a currency! The scale simply has to change and the sooner the better. This could be adopted by consensus over time. Once the exchanges adopt it, then one of the major public perception problems of Bitcoin is gone. People will want to throw money at it if they can buy units for next to nothing - just like the very early adopters did.

I agree, the psychological barrier to paying 1000USD/btc is extreme! So how do we remove the psychological limit, if there is one? The only way to do this is through education so that people begin to use the MilliBTC and MicroBTC denominations... I propose a move to everyone, we now speak of the price of Bitcoin as being in Bitcents. At current pricing it is 1.36USD/Bitcent.

My thinking is look at the distribution of bitcoins,    21,000,000 . 000,000,00  , That looks like a perfect division to me a very symmetrical number. so we have 11 million BTC in circulation and with a market cap of 1.5 billion USD... that means that if we translate that number to that division it is...   1,500,000,0.00 . that looks like a good way to figure out where we should be considering the starting point to talk about Bitcoin if we want it to get past that mental barrier.


and About Max Keisers comments.  I agree with him a set price would be good, but who should set that price is definitely not a central authority.

and there is no way that it would be feasable; if the Soviet Communists couldn't set the price in Russia, what chance does a small organization outnumbered by the vast majority of humanity have? just wait for the first herd of new users from a G20 country and you'll know it can't be done.



The question is what the hell are we basing Bitcoins price on? Market Data? Future growth? I doubt anyone doing the trading is even bothering to do an economical analysis.

Look at this article I found: it explains how Bitcoin is an empty valueless stock which it's only purpose is to gamble... If this is the mentality of the traders we are in trouble, because they are basing their assumptions on the fact that everyone else on the exchange is just gambling as well.

http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/the-bitcoin-bubble-bad-hypothesis-8353

WE NEED MARKET DATA! to back the movement of bitcoin. How many businesses are getting on-board with Bitcoin?  What is their market size? What amount of their customers are Bitcoin users? etc, etc... Education is the only way to stabilize the price after we remove the psychological barrier,

Smart, Intelligent, informed traders, consumers and miners is the only way we are going to gain stability.

[franky1]

the whole idea of bitcoin in 2009 is this

imagine the amount of bitcoin a person can mine in a day is minimum wage

then imagine how much bread, milk, rent, (lifestyle stuff) they would usually buy in a day.

use that as their bases for value.

so if they could only mine 0.3BTC a day and needed to get some bread, meat, veg, milk, OJ, pay their electric then they would work out the dollar value and find someone that would give them the dollar value for that daily use.

localbitcoin.com bartaring style.

so imagine he needs $50 a day to live a healthy lifestyle. that makes a whole bitcoin valued at $150.

back in 2009-2011 people were receiving many bitcoin a day so bitcoin had a low value. now its harder to mine coins so the value of products/services vs bitcoin income makes bitcoin worth more then in 2009-2011.

i personally prefer to see a ticker that adds up all of the miners currently mining and divides the income (rewards) by the amount of people mining per day to get an average income per person. then use this number as a minimum wage value to compare to real life products.
25 coins/10minutes = 150 an hour = 3600btc a day
imagine there was 10,000 miners mining today
average income= 0.36BTC

loaf of bread=2% of average income
4 pints of milk=2.4% of average income
bottle of beer in a bar=5% of average income
pack of cigarettes=10% of average income

that way  value is based on proof of work not speculation, and different countries which had differing values for products (EG USA has cheaper electricity and car fuel then the UK) the US would vary its product percentages accordingly

and that is how you create a non centralised value that has a bit of stability as the value is bartered between a few people untill they all agree on a set level for easy calculation...not ramped and dumped by a few rich people on an exchange.

[Its About Sharing]

My simple solution to this perceived problem is to simply encourage the adoption of cBTC or some other SMALLER unit as the standard unit referred to in exchange rather than the full bitcoin. This way you just change the scale of the exchange rate, thus changing the public perception.

So then, for example, today's price would be expressed as $1.35 cBTC. And it would stay in that small relatable scale until 1 BTC hit $1,000. Then that previously scary price would be represented as $10.00 cBTC, which seems like a relative pittance.

Switching over to millibits would probably be even better. Today's price would be $.135 mBTC.

Bitcoin is a *very* limited issue. Think about how small 21 million units is for a currency! The scale simply has to change and the sooner the better. This could be adopted by consensus over time. Once the exchanges adopt it, then one of the major public perception problems of Bitcoin is gone. People will want to throw money at it if they can buy units for next to nothing - just like the very early adopters did.

I agree, the psychological barrier to paying 1000USD/btc is extreme! So how do we remove the psychological limit, if there is one? The only way to do this is through education so that people begin to use the MilliBTC and MicroBTC denominations... I propose a move to everyone, we now speak of the price of Bitcoin as being in Bitcents. At current pricing it is 1.36USD/Bitcent.

My thinking is look at the distribution of bitcoins,    21,000,000 . 000,000,00  , That looks like a perfect division to me a very symmetrical number. so we have 11 million BTC in circulation and with a market cap of 1.5 billion USD... that means that if we translate that number to that division it is...   1,500,000,0.00 . that looks like a good way to figure out where we should be considering the starting point to talk about Bitcoin if we want it to get past that mental barrier.


and About Max Keisers comments.  I agree with him a set price would be good, but who should set that price is definitely not a central authority.

and there is no way that it would be feasable; if the Soviet Communists couldn't set the price in Russia, what chance does a small organization outnumbered by the vast majority of humanity, just wait for the first herd of new users from a G20 country and you'll know it can't be done.



The question is what the hell are we basing Bitcoins price on? Market Data? Future growth? I doubt anyone doing the trading is even bothering to do an economical analysis.

Look at this article I found: it explains how Bitcoin is an empty valueless stock which it's only purpose is to gamble... If this is the mentality of the traders we are in trouble, because they are basing their assumptions on the fact that everyone else on the exchange is just gambling as well.

http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/the-bitcoin-bubble-bad-hypothesis-8353

WE NEED MARKET DATA! to back the movement of bitcoin. How many businesses are getting on-board with Bitcoin?  What is their market size? What amount of their customers are Bitcoin users? etc, etc... Education is the only way to stabilize the price after we remove the psychological barrier,

Smart Intelligent, informed traders, consumers and miners is the only way we are going to gain stability.

It is a great idea to move our terminology to bitcents. It may be quite a bit premature to do that though. The adoption rate is still very very low and the volatility still high (but that is due more to the uncertainty of dollars, Euros, etc.)

The bitcoin price is basically based on the market share while considering the supply/demand. If there are only 11 million shares right now, then clearly as the market share rises there just aren't enough bitcoins to go around. But there are enough bitcents, Satoshi's, etc. As far as what is backing Bitcoin, it is essentially a digital decentralized fiat currency/commodity/? backed by trust via use and acceptance. Anything, including gold, dollars, etc. only have the value we give it. What is on our side is that currencies all over the world are in collapse and people need to put their money elsewhere e.g. - Gold, silver, bitcoins, etc.

IAS

[jdbtracker]

So how do we set this up then?

I would like to see how many miners there are on the system/country, this can give us a picture of what the Cost of living is in all these countries, we could speculate from such data where the strongest mining hubs will be... obviously in spain at the moment they just hit 29% unemployment.

and also I found this while crawling the web a little while ago. the original bitcoin 0.1 release... pretty damn cool.

this is what Satoshi Wrote

Total circulation will be 21,000,000 coins. It'll be distributed
to network nodes when they make blocks, with the amount cut in half
every 4 years.

first 4 years: 10,500,000 coins
next 4 years: 5,250,000 coins
next 4 years: 2,625,000 coins
next 4 years: 1,312,500 coins
etc...

When that runs out, the system can support transaction fees if
needed.  It's based on open market competition, and there will
probably always be nodes willing to process transactions for free.


This tells me something, Satoshi wanted people to get on board but have an option to only accept paying Bitcoin Customers as well, but you could do it for free too if you like, It's a 40 year plan, with the first few years being completely subsidized by the Bitcoin Lottery... It's obvious satoshi wanted people to make a living off of this... the Cost of living for the conglomerate of Miners has to be taken into account.

[jubalix]

Lol. You're going to need a lot more consensus than the foundation could muster for that one!

How did the foundation go from being a "hey guys let's pitch in and get Gavin a salary (and generally put our heads together to promote Bitcoin technology)" foundation to a multi billion-dollar conspiracy organization?

when they by-lawed satoshi's ghost into it