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Author Topic: How much volume could Bitcoin handle?  (Read 4663 times)
Marcus Antonius (OP)
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April 26, 2013, 11:47:16 PM
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How much volume could Bitcoin handle? Could Bitcoin handle all the transactions handled by Visa, for example?
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April 26, 2013, 11:54:52 PM
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I really doubt at this current point it could handle anything near that volume. But in the future definitely.
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April 27, 2013, 12:01:07 AM
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it can handle around 7 transactions per second at its current 1mb hard block size. visa handles around 2000-4000 tps.
Marcus Antonius (OP)
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April 27, 2013, 02:12:35 AM
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What does it take for handling capacity to increase?
DannyHamilton
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April 27, 2013, 05:50:29 PM
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What does it take for handling capacity to increase?

A forking change to the protocol, and the consensus of all the users to switch to the new protocol.

Or a service provider to provide off-blockchain transactions.
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April 27, 2013, 05:51:49 PM
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What does it take for handling capacity to increase?

A forking change to the protocol, and the consensus of all the users to switch to the new protocol.

So what? As more transactions happen the waits will continue to go up?
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April 27, 2013, 05:52:46 PM
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How much volume could Bitcoin handle? Could Bitcoin handle all the transactions handled by Visa, for example?

if the devs increased the max block size to 10mb, which most internet connections could handle than yes. We could handle about the volume of visa but not more.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
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April 27, 2013, 05:52:53 PM
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What does it take for handling capacity to increase?

A forking change to the protocol, and the consensus of all the users to switch to the new protocol.

So what? As more transactions happen the waits will continue to go up?

And the fees.  That's the intended design, yes.
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April 27, 2013, 05:53:53 PM
 #9

How much volume could Bitcoin handle? Could Bitcoin handle all the transactions handled by Visa, for example?

if the devs increased the max block size to 10mb, which most internet connections could handle than yes. We could handle about the volume of visa but not more.

Wouldn't an increase form 1MB to 10MB result in a capacity change from 7 transactions per second to 70 transactions per second?  That's still nowhere near Visa.
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April 27, 2013, 05:58:50 PM
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How much volume could Bitcoin handle? Could Bitcoin handle all the transactions handled by Visa, for example?

if the devs increased the max block size to 10mb, which most internet connections could handle than yes. We could handle about the volume of visa but not more.

Wouldn't an increase form 1MB to 10MB result in a capacity change from 7 transactions per second to 70 transactions per second?  That's still nowhere near Visa.

well i dont think the relationship is quite linear like that because the blocks do hold header information that wouldn't increase with an increase in block size. but yea if your math is generally right than that would only put us at 5% of visas volume. I wish i remember how i calculated that we could match visas load but since i dont i cant go back and check it =P

anyway thats why i own quite a few litecoins, its the next in line when the bitcoin blockchain runs out of room =)

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
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April 27, 2013, 06:02:38 PM
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What does it take for handling capacity to increase?

A forking change to the protocol, and the consensus of all the users to switch to the new protocol.

So what? As more transactions happen the waits will continue to go up?

And the fees.  That's the intended design, yes.

You learn something new every day.
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April 27, 2013, 06:17:57 PM
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I think Open Transactions will solve the problem of high volume before it actually becomes a problem. A bitcoin backed currency that is instant and perfectly anonymous will soon be possible (or is already).
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April 27, 2013, 06:21:54 PM
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The headers are negibile so yes the tx volume limit is generally linear with block size.

I would point out that the US FedWire system is ~7tps and is used to transfer $600T to $800T annually.   It is possible Bitcoin is used more for large transactions and alternatives (to include alt-coins, off blockchain transactions, ewallets, etc) handle higher volume, lower value transactions.

DannyHamilton
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April 27, 2013, 06:23:00 PM
 #14

What does it take for handling capacity to increase?

A forking change to the protocol, and the consensus of all the users to switch to the new protocol.

So what? As more transactions happen the waits will continue to go up?

And the fees.  That's the intended design, yes.

You learn something new every day.

It is stated in the original "Satoshi white paper" that miners can/will be compensated with the transaction fees that users pay to provide an incentive to be included in the next block.

Users pay these fees to compete for limited block space.  If the block spaces is unlimited, then it has no value.  It is the limited nature of the block space that gives it value.  As such, if there are more transactions than there is space available, then some transactions (those that pay the smallest fee per byte) have to wait for a later block.

Eventually an equilibrium is reached, where individuals would choose not to send a transaction rather than to pay the necessary fee.  This limits the number of transactions that are sent.

This equilibrium adjusts if more block space is available, or if the value of the transactions being sent are higher.

Meanwhile, third-party service providers can reduce the number of blockchain transactions necessary.

Imagine a brand new service provider comes along (We'll call them "Asiv").

Asiv issues a small  3 ⅜ × 2 ⅛ in (85.60 × 53.98 mm) plastic card with a magnetic stripe on the back.  Each card is assigned a unique account number by Asiv.

Asiv contracts with merchants to accept this card for payment on products and services.

When you as an Asiv carrying customer make a purchase at an Asiv accepting merchant, you swipe your card, and sign a receipt.  Asiv keeps track of all the payments made to all the contracted merchants.  Then once a day they make a single payment in bitcoin to the merchant covering the total of all the purchases made in the past 24 hours.  Therefore a merchant might have 100 Asiv purchases per day, but only receive a single bitcoin payment on the blockchain to settle the account at the end of the day.

The merchant can accept payment from the customers without having to wait for bitcoin confirmations, and the customers don't have to make a separate bitcoin transaction fee payment on every transaction.  There is just one transaction fee made by Asiv on their single payment to the merchant (or perhaps even a single transaction that pays multiple merchants all at once).  Asiv covers this cost with the fees that the merchant agrees to pay to Asiv in the contract they sign.

A customer can use their Asiv card and make purchases all month long.  Then at the end of the month, they make a single Bitcoin payment to Asiv paying only a single transaction fee.
Anon136
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April 27, 2013, 11:06:41 PM
 #15

What does it take for handling capacity to increase?

A forking change to the protocol, and the consensus of all the users to switch to the new protocol.

So what? As more transactions happen the waits will continue to go up?

And the fees.  That's the intended design, yes.

You learn something new every day.

It is stated in the original "Satoshi white paper" that miners can/will be compensated with the transaction fees that users pay to provide an incentive to be included in the next block.

Users pay these fees to compete for limited block space.  If the block spaces is unlimited, then it has no value.  It is the limited nature of the block space that gives it value.  As such, if there are more transactions than there is space available, then some transactions (those that pay the smallest fee per byte) have to wait for a later block.

Eventually an equilibrium is reached, where individuals would choose not to send a transaction rather than to pay the necessary fee.  This limits the number of transactions that are sent.

This equilibrium adjusts if more block space is available, or if the value of the transactions being sent are higher.

Meanwhile, third-party service providers can reduce the number of blockchain transactions necessary.

Imagine a brand new service provider comes along (We'll call them "Asiv").

Asiv issues a small  3 ⅜ × 2 ⅛ in (85.60 × 53.98 mm) plastic card with a magnetic stripe on the back.  Each card is assigned a unique account number by Asiv.

Asiv contracts with merchants to accept this card for payment on products and services.

When you as an Asiv carrying customer make a purchase at an Asiv accepting merchant, you swipe your card, and sign a receipt.  Asiv keeps track of all the payments made to all the contracted merchants.  Then once a day they make a single payment in bitcoin to the merchant covering the total of all the purchases made in the past 24 hours.  Therefore a merchant might have 100 Asiv purchases per day, but only receive a single bitcoin payment on the blockchain to settle the account at the end of the day.

The merchant can accept payment from the customers without having to wait for bitcoin confirmations, and the customers don't have to make a separate bitcoin transaction fee payment on every transaction.  There is just one transaction fee made by Asiv on their single payment to the merchant (or perhaps even a single transaction that pays multiple merchants all at once).  Asiv covers this cost with the fees that the merchant agrees to pay to Asiv in the contract they sign.

A customer can use their Asiv card and make purchases all month long.  Then at the end of the month, they make a single Bitcoin payment to Asiv paying only a single transaction fee.

yea it would be nice to not need this level of centralization though. Thats sort of what we hoped bitcoin would save us from.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
DannyHamilton
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April 28, 2013, 05:16:01 AM
 #16

yea it would be nice to not need this level of centralization though. Thats sort of what we hoped bitcoin would save us from.

Bitcoin "saves us from" centralization of the currency.  Instead of a central bank issuing dollars (or euros) at a ridiculous inflationary rate to meet some political plan, we have a protocol issuing bitcoins at a predictable rate.

Entrepreneurs will always find opportunities to gain a profit by filling the needs of others.  That won't change.
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