Is Israel's current existence ironic?

[HabBear]

...or hypocritical?

The Jewish people were oppressed by Nazi Germany. As a result, they were granted land in Palestine...a place for them to have their own sovereign state, Israel. Israel now withholds water and other resources from native Palestinians in the West Bank, oppressing them.

Ironic or Hypocritical or Hype or Justified or ....?

Thoughts?

[Okurkabinladin]

HabBear,

I think its bit more complicated than that.

1) There were no Palestinians before formation of modern Israel, just native arabized tribes. Palestinian nationhood only started forming as a reaction to Israeli settlement. You could see parallel to First Nations in North America.

2) If Israel did withold water from local arabic population, said population would just die of thirst.

3) Israelis indeed do treat Arabs as second class citizens, thats completely correct. Its worth mention however that United States put people of japanese descent into concentration camps after Pearl Harbor and kept them in isolation until imminent danger of invasion passed. Sometimes ideals have to take backseat, when national security is at stake.

Now, if you watch news, youd get this idea that Israelis are middle eastern superpower - while quite developed, its still seven million people surrounded by hundred plus million Arabs, who are more or less hostile since turbulent creation of the state.

[cigaLeider]

HabBear,

I think its bit more complicated than that.

1) There were no Palestinians before formation of modern Israel, just native arabized tribes. Palestinian nationhood only started forming as a reaction to Israeli settlement. You could see parallel to First Nations in North America.

2) If Israel did withold water from local arabic population, said population would just die of thirst.

3) Israelis indeed do treat Arabs as second class citizens, thats completely correct. Its worth mention however that United States put people of japanese descent into concentration camps after Pearl Harbor and kept them in isolation until imminent danger of invasion passed. Sometimes ideals have to take backseat, when national security is at stake.

Now, if you watch news, youd get this idea that Israelis are middle eastern superpower - while quite developed, its still seven million people surrounded by hundred plus million Arabs, who are more or less hostile since turbulent creation of the state.

Nope, is very simple. Just imagine that you live quietly in your country, territory or whatever you want to call it, then for reasons beyond your control (wars in this case) immigrants begin to arrive to your country. Despite not being the majority, one day they decide that this territory is theirs (thanks to the approval of a country foreign to that territory) and form a independent state and the rest, do what you want but outside my territory. Try to be empathic and think what you would do...

So in my opinion...fuck israelites, i hope one day they recieved all things they did x100000000000000. If they did not have the support of the great powers, in which most powerful people are Jews, they would be nothing...Probably a palestinian more.

[Okurkabinladin]

CigaLeider,

you just described formation of every state in existence ever. Look at history of your own country.

I know, that these days millenials take Founding Fathers as a joke, but what they were saying was not a joke. If you are unwilling to defend your land along with your neighbours, if you go as far as selling said land to foreigners (just look how exactly did Jews manage to buy large swathes of the region from locals) - then perhaps you dont deserve it more than they do.

For your reference, my own people do the same mistake in regards to EU and its Arab colonizators. Calling detractors of said colonization as "nazis" and "russian agents". But I stand my ground - if those morons dont defend their freedoms and their neighbourhoods, Arabs will take them over and rightfully so. Deepest circle of hell is reserved for traitors and cowards.

But I am glad "is very simple" in your mind. God bless you.

[crwth]

I don't think it makes so much of a difference. One is sarcastic and one is lying, something like that.

[cigaLeider]

CigaLeider,

you just described formation of every state in existence ever. Look at history of your own country.

I know, that these days millenials take Founding Fathers as a joke, but what they were saying was not a joke. If you are unwilling to defend your land along with your neighbours, if you go as far as selling said land to foreigners (just look how exactly did Jews manage to buy large swathes of the region from locals) - then perhaps you dont deserve it more than they do.

For your reference, my own people do the same mistake in regards to EU and its Arab colonizators. Calling detractors of said colonization as "nazis" and "russian agents". But I stand my ground - if those morons dont defend their freedoms and their neighbourhoods, Arabs will take them over and rightfully so. Deepest circle of hell is reserved for traitors and cowards.

But I am glad "is very simple" in your mind. God bless you.

Im disagree... I dont think that all states in the world are formed by the same way with the same terms, but i think that i understand what you want to say...
if i understand your point, Im agree that people have to defend their territories and not give them to the first one that happens, but even this, years and years of punishment after that are not justifiable.
I know the role of Israel in the world and i dont like it. It seems that we have to forgive everything they do and did, because they suffer the holocaust.
And in the meantime, the international community act like nothing happens there just because Israel have powerfull friends, and is well known that we all have to obey the master.

[Spendulus]

HabBear,

I think its bit more complicated than that.

1) There were no Palestinians before formation of modern Israel, just native arabized tribes. Palestinian nationhood only started forming as a reaction to Israeli settlement. You could see parallel to First Nations in North America.

2) If Israel did withold water from local arabic population, said population would just die of thirst.

3) Israelis indeed do treat Arabs as second class citizens, thats completely correct. Its worth mention however that United States put people of japanese descent into concentration camps after Pearl Harbor and kept them in isolation until imminent danger of invasion passed. Sometimes ideals have to take backseat, when national security is at stake.

Now, if you watch news, youd get this idea that Israelis are middle eastern superpower - while quite developed, its still seven million people surrounded by hundred plus million Arabs, who are more or less hostile since turbulent creation of the state.

Nope, is very simple. Just imagine that you live quietly in your country, territory or whatever you want to call it, then for reasons beyond your control (wars in this case) immigrants begin to arrive to your country. Despite not being the majority, one day they decide that this territory is theirs (thanks to the approval of a country foreign to that territory) and form a independent state and the rest, do what you want but outside my territory. Try to be empathic and think what you would do...

So in my opinion...fuck israelites, i hope one day they recieved all things they did x100000000000000. If they did not have the support of the great powers, in which most powerful people are Jews, they would be nothing...Probably a palestinian more.

Except that's not what happened. What happened is that two thirds of the nations of the world voted to do this in the 1947 UN resolution.

On November 29, 1947, the General Assembly recommended the adoption and implementation of a Plan of Partition with Economic Union, General Assembly Resolution 181, a slightly modified version of that proposed by the majority in the Report of September 3, 1947, 33 votes in favor, 13 against, and 10 abstentions.[13] The vote itself, which required a two-third majority, was a dramatic affair. It led to celebrations in the streets of Jewish cities, but was rejected by the Arab Palestinians and the Arab League.

Within a few days, full scale Jewish–Arab fighting broke out in Palestine.[14] It also led to anti-Jewish violence in Arab countries,[15] and to a Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries.

"On May 14, 1948, on the day in which the British Mandate over Palestine expired, the Jewish People's Council gathered at the Tel Aviv Museum, and approved" a "proclamation" which declared "the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz Israel, to be known as the State of Israel",[16]

Resolution 181 also laid the foundation for the creation of an Arab state, but its neighbour states and the Arab League, which rejected all attempts at the creation of a Jewish state, rejected the plan. In the introduction to the cablegram[17] from the Secretary-General of the League of Arab States to the UN Secretary-General on 15 May 1948, the Arab League gave reasons for its "intervention": "On the occasion of the intervention of Arab States in Palestine to restore law and order and to prevent disturbances prevailing in Palestine from spreading into their territories and to check further bloodshed".

The same day, five Arab states invaded and rapidly occupied much of the Arab portion of the partition plan. This war changed the dynamic of the region, transforming a two-state plan into a war between Israel and the Arab world. During this war, resolution 194 reiterated the UN's claim on Jerusalem and resolved in paragraph 11 "that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date". This resolution, accepted immediately by Israel, is the major legal foundation of the Palestinian right of return claim, a major point in peace negotiations. Resolution 194 also called for the creation of the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine. The Arab states initially opposed this resolution, but within a few months, began to change their position, and became the strongest advocates of its refugee and territorial provisions.[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel,_Palestine,_and_the_United_Nations

[Gyro]

HabBear,

I think its bit more complicated than that.

1) There were no Palestinians before formation of modern Israel, just native arabized tribes. Palestinian nationhood only started forming as a reaction to Israeli settlement. You could see parallel to First Nations in North America.

2) If Israel did withold water from local arabic population, said population would just die of thirst.

3) Israelis indeed do treat Arabs as second class citizens, thats completely correct. Its worth mention however that United States put people of japanese descent into concentration camps after Pearl Harbor and kept them in isolation until imminent danger of invasion passed. Sometimes ideals have to take backseat, when national security is at stake.

Now, if you watch news, youd get this idea that Israelis are middle eastern superpower - while quite developed, its still seven million people surrounded by hundred plus million Arabs, who are more or less hostile since turbulent creation of the state.

Nope, is very simple. Just imagine that you live quietly in your country, territory or whatever you want to call it, then for reasons beyond your control (wars in this case) immigrants begin to arrive to your country. Despite not being the majority, one day they decide that this territory is theirs (thanks to the approval of a country foreign to that territory) and form a independent state and the rest, do what you want but outside my territory. Try to be empathic and think what you would do...

So in my opinion...fuck israelites, i hope one day they recieved all things they did x100000000000000. If they did not have the support of the great powers, in which most powerful people are Jews, they would be nothing...Probably a palestinian more.

I wonder how the native americans and native canadians feel about us? Our ancestors in the west killed millions of them all for land. At least the israelies haven't done the ethnic cleansing like us westerners did not so long ago..

[Spendulus]

.....

I wonder how the native americans and native canadians feel about us? Our ancestors in the west killed millions of them all for land. At least the israelies haven't done the ethnic cleansing like us westerners did not so long ago..

I wonder how we would feel about the native americans and native canadians, if 10% of their revenue from all operations on tribal lands including the casinos, were dedicated toward terrorist and suicide bombings in the American heartland.

That's the comparable with the Palestine Authority today.

[European Central Bank]

i can't stand anti semitism. i also can't stand the criticism of israel being called anti semitism.

alot of the time they're oppressive scum. but if they weren't they'd probably be wiped out.

[ridery99]

That land was just given back to it's original owners.

[Alexzap]

I'm not against Jews, but it turns out that the fate of one nation decided by the fate of another. It is also not correct. And this problem will be solved soon.

[merchantofzeny]

Let's ask a different question instead. What if instead of trying to form a nation as the British left, the Jews just chilled out? "Oh, Arabs, we don't have problems with them, they probably won't do anything to us when the colonial lords leave."

HabBear,

I think its bit more complicated than that.

1) There were no Palestinians before formation of modern Israel, just native arabized tribes. Palestinian nationhood only started forming as a reaction to Israeli settlement. You could see parallel to First Nations in North America.

2) If Israel did withold water from local arabic population, said population would just die of thirst.

3) Israelis indeed do treat Arabs as second class citizens, thats completely correct. Its worth mention however that United States put people of japanese descent into concentration camps after Pearl Harbor and kept them in isolation until imminent danger of invasion passed. Sometimes ideals have to take backseat, when national security is at stake.

Now, if you watch news, youd get this idea that Israelis are middle eastern superpower - while quite developed, its still seven million people surrounded by hundred plus million Arabs, who are more or less hostile since turbulent creation of the state.

Nope, is very simple. Just imagine that you live quietly in your country, territory or whatever you want to call it, then for reasons beyond your control (wars in this case) immigrants begin to arrive to your country. Despite not being the majority, one day they decide that this territory is theirs (thanks to the approval of a country foreign to that territory) and form a independent state and the rest, do what you want but outside my territory. Try to be empathic and think what you would do...

So in my opinion...fuck israelites, i hope one day they recieved all things they did x100000000000000. If they did not have the support of the great powers, in which most powerful people are Jews, they would be nothing...Probably a palestinian more.

I suppose this is similar to what the Greeks felt as they see the Ottomans rushing through a breach on Constantinople's walls?

.....

I wonder how the native americans and native canadians feel about us? Our ancestors in the west killed millions of them all for land. At least the israelies haven't done the ethnic cleansing like us westerners did not so long ago..

I wonder how we would feel about the native americans and native canadians, if 10% of their revenue from all operations on tribal lands including the casinos, were dedicated toward terrorist and suicide bombings in the American heartland.

That's the comparable with the Palestine Authority today.

Can't argue with this.

[Forester618]

It seems to me that Israel will never be able to coexist peacefully with Palestine. This is a problem of unfinished war. As it is not sad, but someone has to win and cease to exist. In another such conflicts are not solved. Only war until will remain only one country.

[saddampbuh]

there are good reasons to oppose the actions of israel and international jewry in general but this is childish nonsense, there's no difference between how israel was founded and let's say the usa or australia with natives being killed or kicked out to make way for settlers who wanted to be in the majority, whether we like it or not israelis have acquired national rights by dint of being born in that country and they aren't going to voluntarily disestablish their country and leave themselves open to the zimbabwe treatment or something much worse.

[Spendulus]

It seems to me that Israel will never be able to coexist peacefully with Palestine. This is a problem of unfinished war. As it is not sad, but someone has to win and cease to exist. In another such conflicts are not solved. Only war until will remain only one country.

Because that's what the Arabs WANT. It's not what Israel want.

Look at the history.

Resolution 181 also laid the foundation for the creation of an Arab state, but its neighbour states and the Arab League, which rejected all attempts at the creation of a Jewish state, rejected the plan.

[Lancusters]

It seems to me that Israel will never be able to coexist peacefully with Palestine. This is a problem of unfinished war. As it is not sad, but someone has to win and cease to exist. In another such conflicts are not solved. Only war until will remain only one country.

Because that's what the Arabs WANT. It's not what Israel want.

Look at the history.

Resolution 181 also laid the foundation for the creation of an Arab state, but its neighbour states and the Arab League, which rejected all attempts at the creation of a Jewish state, rejected the plan.

I have many friends living in Israel. I can't say that they want war with the Arabs. But once the Arabs satisfied with any attack, they immediately rush into battle. Sooner or later they would destroy Palestine.

[digaran]

Just a bunch of innocent angels living their lives and have nothing to do with others they can't even harm an ant, let them be will you? those poor souls even have their walls around them waiting for the bus to come and then jump on it straight to heaven.
I mean they couldn't possibly buy one of the states in US with their wealth and have their own country and since US is their friend I'm sure they wouldn't mind that, but they have to be exactly in that very geographic spot on earth? I'm sure they have their reasons.

[Lieldoryn]

The Palestinians do not like to work. They do nothing and at the same time very jealous of the Israelites. They have chosen the path of terror. Who is interested in destabilizing the situation in the middle East pay them money, and they commit acts of terrorism. For me, the Palestinians are not people.

[Sithara007]

The Palestinians do not like to work. They do nothing and at the same time very jealous of the Israelites. They have chosen the path of terror. Who is interested in destabilizing the situation in the middle East pay them money, and they commit acts of terrorism. For me, the Palestinians are not people.

Perhaps Israel must expel the Palestinians to any of the 50+ Muslim nations around the world. Arab nations don't allow Jews to reside on their territory. During the 1950s and the 1960s, most of the Jews living in these nations were expelled. Then why shouldn't the Jews retaliate in kind?