Is Israel's current existence ironic?

[cigaLeider]

HabBear,

I think its bit more complicated than that.

1) There were no Palestinians before formation of modern Israel, just native arabized tribes. Palestinian nationhood only started forming as a reaction to Israeli settlement. You could see parallel to First Nations in North America.

2) If Israel did withold water from local arabic population, said population would just die of thirst.

3) Israelis indeed do treat Arabs as second class citizens, thats completely correct. Its worth mention however that United States put people of japanese descent into concentration camps after Pearl Harbor and kept them in isolation until imminent danger of invasion passed. Sometimes ideals have to take backseat, when national security is at stake.

Now, if you watch news, youd get this idea that Israelis are middle eastern superpower - while quite developed, its still seven million people surrounded by hundred plus million Arabs, who are more or less hostile since turbulent creation of the state.

Nope, is very simple. Just imagine that you live quietly in your country, territory or whatever you want to call it, then for reasons beyond your control (wars in this case) immigrants begin to arrive to your country. Despite not being the majority, one day they decide that this territory is theirs (thanks to the approval of a country foreign to that territory) and form a independent state and the rest, do what you want but outside my territory. Try to be empathic and think what you would do...

So in my opinion...fuck israelites, i hope one day they recieved all things they did x100000000000000. If they did not have the support of the great powers, in which most powerful people are Jews, they would be nothing...Probably a palestinian more.

Except that's not what happened. What happened is that two thirds of the nations of the world voted to do this in the 1947 UN resolution.

On November 29, 1947, the General Assembly recommended the adoption and implementation of a Plan of Partition with Economic Union, General Assembly Resolution 181, a slightly modified version of that proposed by the majority in the Report of September 3, 1947, 33 votes in favor, 13 against, and 10 abstentions.[13] The vote itself, which required a two-third majority, was a dramatic affair. It led to celebrations in the streets of Jewish cities, but was rejected by the Arab Palestinians and the Arab League.

Within a few days, full scale Jewish–Arab fighting broke out in Palestine.[14] It also led to anti-Jewish violence in Arab countries,[15] and to a Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries.

"On May 14, 1948, on the day in which the British Mandate over Palestine expired, the Jewish People's Council gathered at the Tel Aviv Museum, and approved" a "proclamation" which declared "the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz Israel, to be known as the State of Israel",[16]

Resolution 181 also laid the foundation for the creation of an Arab state, but its neighbour states and the Arab League, which rejected all attempts at the creation of a Jewish state, rejected the plan. In the introduction to the cablegram[17] from the Secretary-General of the League of Arab States to the UN Secretary-General on 15 May 1948, the Arab League gave reasons for its "intervention": "On the occasion of the intervention of Arab States in Palestine to restore law and order and to prevent disturbances prevailing in Palestine from spreading into their territories and to check further bloodshed".

The same day, five Arab states invaded and rapidly occupied much of the Arab portion of the partition plan. This war changed the dynamic of the region, transforming a two-state plan into a war between Israel and the Arab world. During this war, resolution 194 reiterated the UN's claim on Jerusalem and resolved in paragraph 11 "that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date". This resolution, accepted immediately by Israel, is the major legal foundation of the Palestinian right of return claim, a major point in peace negotiations. Resolution 194 also called for the creation of the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine. The Arab states initially opposed this resolution, but within a few months, began to change their position, and became the strongest advocates of its refugee and territorial provisions.[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel,_Palestine,_and_the_United_Nations

The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a proposal by the United Nations, which recommended a partition of Mandatory Palestine at the end of the British Mandate. On 29 November 1947, the UN General Assembly adopted the Plan as Resolution 181(II).[2]

The resolution recommended the creation of independent Arab and Jewish States and a Special International Regime for the city of Jerusalem. The Partition Plan, a four-part document attached to the resolution, provided for the termination of the Mandate, the progressive withdrawal of British armed forces and the delineation of boundaries between the two States and Jerusalem. Part I of the Plan stipulated that the Mandate would be terminated as soon as possible and the United Kingdom would withdraw no later than 1 August 1948. The new states would come into existence two months after the withdrawal, but no later than 1 October 1948. The Plan sought to address the conflicting objectives and claims of two competing movements, Palestinian nationalism and Jewish nationalism, or Zionism.[3][4] The Plan also called for Economic Union between the proposed states, and for the protection of religious and minority rights.

The Plan was accepted by the Jewish Agency for Palestine, despite its perceived limitations.[5][6] Arab leaders and governments rejected it[7] and indicated an unwillingness to accept any form of territorial division,[8] arguing that it violated the principles of national self-determination in the UN Charter which granted people the right to decide their own destiny.[6][9]

Immediately after adoption of the Resolution by the General Assembly, a civil war broke out[10] and the plan was not implemented.[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine

This is the result when other countries decide what has to happen in your territory. My only mistake was not put country in plural.

[iluvbitcoins]

It seems to me that Israel will never be able to coexist peacefully with Palestine. This is a problem of unfinished war. As it is not sad, but someone has to win and cease to exist. In another such conflicts are not solved. Only war until will remain only one country.

Because that's what the Arabs WANT. It's not what Israel want.

Look at the history.

Resolution 181 also laid the foundation for the creation of an Arab state, but its neighbour states and the Arab League, which rejected all attempts at the creation of a Jewish state, rejected the plan.

Ofcourse Arabs rejected it.
Israel has nothing to do in the Middle East, there's been 3000 years since the last time Jews habitated these areas
Arabs lived here for thousands of years, only to be chased out and overpopulated at the time of the Second World War
Hebrews should of gone to Madagascar
This land rightfully belongs to the Arabs

[Okurkabinladin]

It seems to me that Israel will never be able to coexist peacefully with Palestine. This is a problem of unfinished war. As it is not sad, but someone has to win and cease to exist. In another such conflicts are not solved. Only war until will remain only one country.

Because that's what the Arabs WANT. It's not what Israel want.

Look at the history.

Resolution 181 also laid the foundation for the creation of an Arab state, but its neighbour states and the Arab League, which rejected all attempts at the creation of a Jewish state, rejected the plan.

Ofcourse Arabs rejected it.
Israel has nothing to do in the Middle East, there's been 3000 years since the last time Jews habitated these areas
Arabs lived here for thousands of years, only to be chased out and overpopulated at the time of the Second World War
Hebrews should of gone to Madagascar
This land rightfully belongs to the Arabs

Can I know your education, sir?

Arabs have not lived in Palestine for thousands of years, because old arabic was reserved for southern part of Arabian peninsula until CONQUEST (see the pattern?!) by prophet Mohammed. Exterminating or assimilating opposition in the process. Palestine and Levant two to three millenia ago was inhabitated by people who spoke and practiced Aramaic, old Hebrew, Assyrian and perhaps Greek and Persian culture. Not your "Arabs".

What the hell?

[cigaLeider]

HabBear,

I think its bit more complicated than that.

1) There were no Palestinians before formation of modern Israel, just native arabized tribes. Palestinian nationhood only started forming as a reaction to Israeli settlement. You could see parallel to First Nations in North America.

2) If Israel did withold water from local arabic population, said population would just die of thirst.

3) Israelis indeed do treat Arabs as second class citizens, thats completely correct. Its worth mention however that United States put people of japanese descent into concentration camps after Pearl Harbor and kept them in isolation until imminent danger of invasion passed. Sometimes ideals have to take backseat, when national security is at stake.

Now, if you watch news, youd get this idea that Israelis are middle eastern superpower - while quite developed, its still seven million people surrounded by hundred plus million Arabs, who are more or less hostile since turbulent creation of the state.

Nope, is very simple. Just imagine that you live quietly in your country, territory or whatever you want to call it, then for reasons beyond your control (wars in this case) immigrants begin to arrive to your country. Despite not being the majority, one day they decide that this territory is theirs (thanks to the approval of a country foreign to that territory) and form a independent state and the rest, do what you want but outside my territory. Try to be empathic and think what you would do...

So in my opinion...fuck israelites, i hope one day they recieved all things they did x100000000000000. If they did not have the support of the great powers, in which most powerful people are Jews, they would be nothing...Probably a palestinian more.

I wonder how the native americans and native canadians feel about us? Our ancestors in the west killed millions of them all for land. At least the israelies haven't done the ethnic cleansing like us westerners did not so long ago..

I dont know, im not american. In any case, throughout history, man has always been doing the same thing all over the world, invading and subjecting the minority to their interests.

What would you call what Israel has done to the Palestinian people? Maybe ethnic cleansing is not the most appropriate term in this case, but it is a mass murder.

[Spendulus]

HabBear,

I think its bit more complicated than that.

1) There were no Palestinians before formation of modern Israel, just native arabized tribes. Palestinian nationhood only started forming as a reaction to Israeli settlement. You could see parallel to First Nations in North America.

2) If Israel did withold water from local arabic population, said population would just die of thirst.

3) Israelis indeed do treat Arabs as second class citizens, thats completely correct. Its worth mention however that United States put people of japanese descent into concentration camps after Pearl Harbor and kept them in isolation until imminent danger of invasion passed. Sometimes ideals have to take backseat, when national security is at stake.

Now, if you watch news, youd get this idea that Israelis are middle eastern superpower - while quite developed, its still seven million people surrounded by hundred plus million Arabs, who are more or less hostile since turbulent creation of the state.

Nope, is very simple. Just imagine that you live quietly in your country, territory or whatever you want to call it, then for reasons beyond your control (wars in this case) immigrants begin to arrive to your country. Despite not being the majority, one day they decide that this territory is theirs (thanks to the approval of a country foreign to that territory) and form a independent state and the rest, do what you want but outside my territory. Try to be empathic and think what you would do...

So in my opinion...fuck israelites, i hope one day they recieved all things they did x100000000000000. If they did not have the support of the great powers, in which most powerful people are Jews, they would be nothing...Probably a palestinian more.

I wonder how the native americans and native canadians feel about us? Our ancestors in the west killed millions of them all for land. At least the israelies haven't done the ethnic cleansing like us westerners did not so long ago..

I dont know, im not american. In any case, throughout history, man has always been doing the same thing all over the world, invading and subjecting the minority to their interests.

What would you call what Israel has done to the Palestinian people? Maybe ethnic cleansing is not the most appropriate term in this case, but it is a mass murder.

Really?

One more time.

Resolution 181 also laid the foundation for the creation of an Arab state, but its neighbour states and the Arab League, which rejected all attempts at the creation of a Jewish state, rejected the plan.

[Forester618]

The Jews built in the desert economically developed country. All other neighbouring areas in decline. For me it is an indicator. Give the Arabs Israel, and a few years there will again be a desert. Why do it?

[Mometaskers]

Jews are already there prior to establisment of Israel. They would have been massacred had they not fought back. UN tried to resolve the problem, Arabs rejected it. Israel has offered them various deals and moved out of Gaza, they rejected it.

This is the same elsewhere where you have Muslims as minorities. Give them deals, and if they accept it, soon enough violence would be breaking out again and they'll be asking for more.

It seems to me that Israel will never be able to coexist peacefully with Palestine. This is a problem of unfinished war. As it is not sad, but someone has to win and cease to exist. In another such conflicts are not solved. Only war until will remain only one country.

Because that's what the Arabs WANT. It's not what Israel want.

Look at the history.

Resolution 181 also laid the foundation for the creation of an Arab state, but its neighbour states and the Arab League, which rejected all attempts at the creation of a Jewish state, rejected the plan.

Ofcourse Arabs rejected it.
Israel has nothing to do in the Middle East, there's been 3000 years since the last time Jews habitated these areas
Arabs lived here for thousands of years, only to be chased out and overpopulated at the time of the Second World War
Hebrews should of gone to Madagascar
This land rightfully belongs to the Arabs

LOL, this is as funny as those people claiming Earth is just 6000 years old. True, Romans expelled Jews from Judea (and also renamed it to "Palestina" but Jews has started come back to place before Arabs arrived. Jews have been living in the Middle East prior to the Arab conquest, which is why Muhammad has asked help from them against the pagans of Mecca and tried to have them join his new religion. (Jews and Christians, as expected, rejected it)

The Jews built in the desert economically developed country. All other neighbouring areas in decline. For me it is an indicator. Give the Arabs Israel, and a few years there will again be a desert. Why do it?

Give a crocodile a bite of your finger, next it will ask for a hand. Give that to it and then it'll ask for the whole arm.

[Userperson321]

The Palestinians were not a people in the first place. The land was just a region in the Ottoman empire. The whole idea that Israel is oppressing the Palestinians is just a way for people to hate Israel. The situation is kind of like if the USA was to be completely destroyed and new countries took over the land, but people who lived in America in the area once known as California decided they wanted land so they started to complain the the country that exists in what was once California is oppressing the Californians and that they should get the land that was taken from them. It wouldn't make much sense to give them the land would it? they didn't do anything to deserve that land did they? no. Its not a perfect example but it gets the point across. There was never a Palestinian people so why should we give them land?

[farl2web]

Who would not say anything, but the Jews know how to live and build their country. Despite years of conflict with their neighbors, they are like outcasts all over the world and yet their standard of living is much better than in many countries around the world.

[Spendulus]

Who would not say anything, but the Jews know how to live and build their country. Despite years of conflict with their neighbors, they are like outcasts all over the world and yet their standard of living is much better than in many countries around the world.

One of the big lies is that the Great Powers created the nation state of Israel. The United Nations did with a two thirds majority vote. The Arab nations were united in opposition.

Even though the proposal included steps for the creation of a Palestinian state, that didn't matter. They couldn't stand the idea of a Jewish state. It's not a matter of equal for the two sides, they have to have it all and have the Jews have nothing. That's the way they were, and that's the way they are.

Hence a Palestinian "leader," Yassir Arafat, with over 400 terrorist bombings and atrocities to his credit. Hence today, 10% of the Palestinian Authority toward terrorist support. Hence today, massive propaganda, including the initial premises of this thread.

[mindrust]

There is nothing ironic about survival. Nazis tried to exterminate Jews because they wanted more wealth, more nazis to exist The US & Russia didn't let Nazis because it would harm them too.

Israel exterminates Arabs there because no-one is stopping them. They will keep doing it till someone hammers them down.

Human rights is all bullshit. No one cares who kills who unless it doesn't benefit them.

[Sithara007]

Who would not say anything, but the Jews know how to live and build their country. Despite years of conflict with their neighbors, they are like outcasts all over the world and yet their standard of living is much better than in many countries around the world.

Even before the foundation of Israel, the Jews had some of the highest standards of living in the world. And despite the holocaust and the numerous wars, they were able to build their new country from scratch.

[Spendulus]

....
Israel exterminates Arabs there because no-one is stopping them. They will keep doing it till someone hammers them down.....

Really?

By any objective measure it's Arabs who are exterminating Arabs (along with various other people-types).

[mindrust]

....
Israel exterminates Arabs there because no-one is stopping them. They will keep doing it till someone hammers them down.....

Really?

By any objective measure it's Arabs who are exterminating Arabs (along with various other people-types).

Actually it's not clear who's exterminating who down there and like a real American would do, i don't give a fuck as long as they exterminate each other a long way from my body.

[Mometaskers]

....
Israel exterminates Arabs there because no-one is stopping them. They will keep doing it till someone hammers them down.....

Really?

By any objective measure it's Arabs who are exterminating Arabs (along with various other people-types).

Actually it's not clear who's exterminating who down there and like a real American would do, i don't give a fuck as long as they exterminate each other a long way from my body.

Problem is a few crazy ones could be coming to a town near you.

[Spendulus]

....
Israel exterminates Arabs there because no-one is stopping them. They will keep doing it till someone hammers them down.....

Really?

By any objective measure it's Arabs who are exterminating Arabs (along with various other people-types).

Actually it's not clear who's exterminating who down there and like a real American would do, i don't give a fuck as long as they exterminate each other a long way from my body.

Problem is a few crazy ones could be coming to a town near you.

You got to admit, it's a big move to change the crusade from "Kill all the Jews" to "Kill all the Infidels."

Of course taking over the world and establishing a Caliphate would mean some crazies directed to a town near you.

[Sithara007]

Problem is a few crazy ones could be coming to a town near you.

After all, multiculturalism is such a good thing. 

Third world rapefugees sexually abusing native women in the European states can be such a good sign of the growing multiculturalism and cultural enrichment coming to the western nations.

[signature200]

Who would not say anything, but the Jews know how to live and build their country. Despite years of conflict with their neighbors, they are like outcasts all over the world and yet their standard of living is much better than in many countries around the world.

Even before the foundation of Israel, the Jews had some of the highest standards of living in the world. And despite the holocaust and the numerous wars, they were able to build their new country from scratch.

I think that the success of many Jews started the mechanism of repression. People are just jealous of Jews and their success. The Arabs are doing the same as Hitler. They simply have no strength to destroy Israel. However, this does not prevent the Palestinians EN masse to go to work in Israel.

[Spendulus]

Who would not say anything, but the Jews know how to live and build their country. Despite years of conflict with their neighbors, they are like outcasts all over the world and yet their standard of living is much better than in many countries around the world.

Even before the foundation of Israel, the Jews had some of the highest standards of living in the world. And despite the holocaust and the numerous wars, they were able to build their new country from scratch.

I think that the success of many Jews started the mechanism of repression. People are just jealous of Jews and their success. The Arabs are doing the same as Hitler. They simply have no strength to destroy Israel. However, this does not prevent the Palestinians EN masse to go to work in Israel.

you mean, take their money and scout out good places for devout brother in law to blow up? Fund his work then take his wife?

[Mometaskers]

You got to admit, it's a big move to change the crusade from "Kill all the Jews" to "Kill all the Infidels."

Of course taking over the world and establishing a Caliphate would mean some crazies directed to a town near you.

They look to the glory days when they are a global power. That's why every radical would be claiming they're working to bring back the caliphate. The "glory days" coincided with the time they were very secure and wealthy - mostly because it was them doing all the invading. And yet when they talk about European colonialists... IMHO they are just bitter the kafirs beat them to world domination. Kafirs are not meant to be victors, they must be dhimmi.

After all, multiculturalism is such a good thing. 

Third world rapefugees sexually abusing native women in the European states can be such a good sign of the growing multiculturalism and cultural enrichment coming to the western nations.

And yet those poor Europeans are still dreaming of their multiculturalist utopia being a standard across the world. Sigh. Sweden has even been accused of covering up abuses done by the immigrunts. Almost every journalist that has been to Rikeby has been attacked. To be fair with them, how do you arrest rapefugees that mob and molest girls at concerts when most of the people there are rapefugees.

Europeans - they will be missed.